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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Defining Toughness
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flyer_nutter
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Unleash the Peanuts, MB
Joined: 10.16.2008

Aug 29 @ 7:52 PM ET
Wait, does this also mean that a team can play with emotion in the "New NHL"?

Say it isn't so!
flyer_nutter
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Unleash the Peanuts, MB
Joined: 10.16.2008

Aug 29 @ 8:31 PM ET
A deletion has occured.
Mononoke
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest!
Joined: 07.19.2015

Aug 29 @ 9:03 PM ET
I definitely remember when hooking was hooking.
- roenick97


Are we talking hockey?
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 30 @ 12:02 AM ET
Can the Flyers confirm this Jagr story?

http://www.hockeyfeed.com...wed-four-nhl-teams?ref=jo
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 30 @ 8:07 AM ET
Can the Flyers confirm this Jagr story?

http://www.hockeyfeed.com...wed-four-nhl-teams?ref=jo

- roenick97


But then he came here because he wanted to play with G... go figure...
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 30 @ 8:25 AM ET
But then he came here because he wanted to play with G... go figure...
- dragonoffrost

You're right. Look at all the Stanley Cups we won in that one season...22 years later.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 8:34 AM ET
I want to see interference eliminated also, but I also don't want to see phantom hooking penalties because a defender raised his stick parallel to his waist.
- MJL


You already see them now. One cost the Flyers a playoff game, and potential playoff round, in 2009. But I agree, if it's a legit hook/hold/etc. call it.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 30 @ 8:38 AM ET
You already see them now. One cost the Flyers a playoff game, and potential playoff round, in 2009. But I agree, if it's a legit hook/hold/etc. call it.
- jmatchett383


I'm aware, but the point is that is one of the ways the league is trying to cut down on obstruction. Is that working? Teams given PP's when nothing really happened, to impede the player? I want to see obstruction cut down, but players also have to be able to defend.
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 30 @ 8:53 AM ET
I'm aware, but the point is that is one of the ways the league is trying to cut down on obstruction. Is that working? Teams given PP's when nothing really happened, to impede the player? I want to see obstruction cut down, but players also have to be able to defend.
- MJL

To the credit of the game, I feel like the officiating gets better as the season goes on, my noticeably in the playoffs but all those months leading to spring with bad calls that often costs a team games is tough to swollow.
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 30 @ 9:11 AM ET
Pronman's team prospect rankings are out. Flyers are number 6 up from 10 at the last one.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/i...n-led-toronto-maple-leafs But need insider access to see the full list.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 9:21 AM ET
Pronman's team prospect rankings are out. Flyers are number 6 up from 10 at the last one.

http://www.espn.com/nhl/i...n-led-toronto-maple-leafs But need insider access to see the full list.

- dragonoffrost


Can you post the Flyers' synopsis?
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 30 @ 9:23 AM ET
Can you post the Flyers' synopsis?
- jmatchett383

It's hard to criticize the Flyers' system. Talented all-around centers? Check. Dynamic big defensemen? Check. Ridiculous goaltender depth? Check. Depth through their amateur and professional ranks? Check. Players with star upside? Check. They don't have an Auston Matthews-caliber player in the pipeline, but that player doesn't stay in your system longer than three months anyhow. Ron Hextall emphasizes patience in developing players, so I do expect this system to remain at a high level for another two seasons as the build continues.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 9:25 AM ET
I'm aware, but the point is that is one of the ways the league is trying to cut down on obstruction. Is that working? Teams given PP's when nothing really happened, to impede the player? I want to see obstruction cut down, but players also have to be able to defend.
- MJL


I think that's more poor officiating than a problem with the rules. I'm not in favor of any "automatic" penalties (puck over the glass, cut with a high stick, etc.) at all, such as "stick parallel to ice = hook." However, at the same time, any time you use your stick to impede a player, it should be a penalty. It's tough, and mistakes will be made, but I think the league should take more measures to educate their refs, not tweak the rules/enforcement.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 30 @ 9:25 AM ET
[quote=dragonoffrost]

can you get to the good part and tell us where he ranks Phillppe Myers?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 9:26 AM ET
[quote=dragonoffrost]

Nice. I'll be interested to see where they fall on Hockey's Future when they release their rankings.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 30 @ 9:26 AM ET
Has anyone tried to ref a hockey game before?
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 9:27 AM ET
can you get to the good part and tell us where he ranks Phillpe Myers?
- YuenglingJagr


I'm more interested in Parks, Wilcox, and Mathers.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 9:30 AM ET
Has anyone tried to ref a hockey game before?
- YuenglingJagr


Does 8 and under roller hockey count?
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 30 @ 9:32 AM ET
Does 8 and under roller hockey count?
- jmatchett383


Someone is psychotic?
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 30 @ 9:49 AM ET
Number 18 on Pronman's top 120 prospects list.... IVAN PROVOROV!

Provorov had a decent season. He was CHL and WHL defenseman of the year, and one of the best defensemen at the WJC. He's a very unique player who can be fun to watch not because of his athleticism -- which is very good -- but because of how smart he is. Provorov's reads at both ends of the ice allow him to dominate puck possession. He's a very shifty skater who has a bit of a unique lean in how he moves that can look a little off at times, but his edges and power make him quite elusive. Provorov moves the puck efficiently and has a good shot, too. I don't think he's going to dangle people left and right at the next level, but he can certainly lead a rush. He's not spectacular defensively, but he's solid. Provorov works hard without taking too many penalties, which is always a plus.


And #22 Travis Konecny

Konecny was one of the best forwards in the OHL this season, and when he was traded to Sarnia, he was the team's best player on many nights -- even in the same lineup as fellow first-rounders Pavel Zacha and Jakob Chychrun. His offensive game is incredibly dynamic. Konecny's speed, puck skills and hockey sense all grade as high end, as he is able to push the pace in transition, gain the zone easily and make plays to create space and get the puck to the net. He's a very hard-working player who attacks both defenders and the net, and he could be a decent defensive player as a pro with more bulk added on. He's a small, slight player, and many scouts I talk to ding him for his style of play due to his size and injury risk. However, I fail to see evidence presented that his injury risk is more elevated than a big guy with the same style or a small guy who stays on the perimeter.


4 more made the 120

36 German Rubtsov
69 Oscar Lindbolm
71 Travis Sanhiem
84 Phillipe Myers (this isn't a joke)
arichardson22
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Aug 30 @ 9:57 AM ET
Number 18 on Pronman's top 120 prospects list.... IVAN PROVOROV!



And #22 Travis Konecny



4 more made the 120

36 German Rubtsov
69 Oscar Lindbolm
71 Travis Sanhiem
84 Phillipe Myers (this isn't a joke)

- dragonoffrost


Beat me to it for posting. I thought Morin would make the list too. He did a separate goalie ranking list and had Carter Hart at #7 and Sandstrom got an honorable mention at #15
arichardson22
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Aug 30 @ 10:01 AM ET
Beat me to it for posting. I thought Morin would make the list too. He did a separate goalie ranking list and had Carter Hart at #7 and Sandstrom got an honorable mention at #15
- arichardson22


Hart: The CHL goalie of the year in 15-16, Hart is a very smart goaltender. His knowledge of how to read the game and anticipate pucks using proper positioning in the net is high end. Scouts describe how easy he makes it look and how he never gets out of his technique on tough saves. His athleticism is fine. He moves around at a solid level, and he has an above average glove hand but he doesn't have that explosive element in his game.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 10:02 AM ET
Number 18 on Pronman's top 120 prospects list.... IVAN PROVOROV!



And #22 Travis Konecny



4 more made the 120

36 German Rubtsov
69 Oscar Lindbolm
71 Travis Sanhiem
84 Phillipe Myers (this isn't a joke)

- dragonoffrost


Thanks for posting.

I haven't watched much of him outside of the Memorial Cup, but Provorov's offense seems more classic, I guess you could say. Ghost is the kind of guy who will skate the puck up the ice, spin-o-rama, toe-drag, etc. and Provorov seems more of a straight-ahead type of player. I'm not saying it's bad, just that their styles of play (offensively) are different, yet both are effective.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 30 @ 10:14 AM ET
Hart: The CHL goalie of the year in 15-16, Hart is a very smart goaltender. His knowledge of how to read the game and anticipate pucks using proper positioning in the net is high end. Scouts describe how easy he makes it look and how he never gets out of his technique on tough saves. His athleticism is fine. He moves around at a solid level, and he has an above average glove hand but he doesn't have that explosive element in his game.
- arichardson22


Aside from Lundqvist pushing the net off its moorings last year and/or anything that Patrick Roy has ever said, not sure how "explosive" a goalie can be. Sound positioning, good athleticism, and an ability to read shots is all you need.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 30 @ 10:25 AM ET
Aside from Lundqvist pushing the net off its moorings last year and/or anything that Patrick Roy has ever said, not sure how "explosive" a goalie can be. Sound positioning, good athleticism, and an ability to read shots is all you need.
- jmatchett383


The only things other than what you described that could be considered explosive is his push. But I agree. Explosive might be fun to watch but it's not really what you want to call your goalie
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