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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Defining Toughness
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roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 4:03 PM ET
I think Cousins excelled and got stronger the more he played down the stretch. I can see him stepping into a bigger role this season with the Flyers. His 2 way play and smarts away from the puck seemed to be well ahead of how everyone expected Laughton's defensive game to be.
- Pixote Andolini

I could be totally wrong about Cousins. He could become a key contributor for this team but right now both Laughton and Cousins have me feeling Meh.

For those who won't get upset based on my thoughts on Cousins, I ask this, how big of a drop off do the Flyers have at center after Sean Couturier?
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 29 @ 4:13 PM ET
Again, all things Sean Avery offered, which still wasn't much.
- roenick97


But a lot cheaper than Avery and will be gone when the kids are ready to take over the 3rd line.

It's about cap management. Do you bring in White who's a fourth line plug and 2nd PP guy for 2 mill and keep Cousins around for 850K and only have Raffl as the flex guy.

Or do you let White walk. Sign Dale Weise who can flex and play PP2 and keep the cheap Cousins for his grit. And upgrade the 4th line with Gordon. Who can take PK time from Giroux.

Resigning White wouldn't have made this team better. The moves Hextall made should make the team better and keeping Cousins around for this year isn't hurting them cap wise as much as White would have.

EDIT: also if you project Cousins stats from 36 games to the 73 White played the only real difference is White would have a lot more penalty minutes.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 4:15 PM ET
I could be totally wrong about Cousins. He could become a key contributor for this team but right now both Laughton and Cousins have me feeling Meh.

For those who won't get upset based on my thoughts on Cousins, I ask this, how big of a drop off do the Flyers have at center after Sean Couturier?

- roenick97


It is like a hole the size of Boyd Gordon after G and Coots
2Real
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: IT'S GRITTIN TIME, CA
Joined: 07.14.2007

Aug 29 @ 4:17 PM ET
I'm not familiar with him. Which NHL team does he play for?
- jmatchett383

They Philadelphia Cowboys duh
Mononoke
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest!
Joined: 07.19.2015

Aug 29 @ 4:26 PM ET
It is like a hole the size of Boyd Gordon after G and Coots
- YuenglingJagr


I'd love nothing more than for Lyubimov to be impressive at center (he's RH too) in his all-around game, and then roll Cousins-Lyubimov down the middle. But even if, this won't happen because Gordon, coming off 4 points in 65 games and being outscored 30-70%, is a stone cold lock.
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 4:28 PM ET
But a lot cheaper than Avery and will be gone when the kids are ready to take over the 3rd line.

It's about cap management. Do you bring in White who's a fourth line plug and 2nd PP guy for 2 mill and keep Cousins around for 850K and only have Raffl as the flex guy.

Or do you let White walk. Sign Dale Weise who can flex and play PP2 and keep the cheap Cousins for his grit. And upgrade the 4th line with Gordon. Who can take PK time from Giroux.

Resigning White wouldn't have made this team better. The moves Hextall made should make the team better and keeping Cousins around for this year isn't hurting them cap wise as much as White would have.

- dragonoffrost


I'm not as much making a case to keep White as I am pointing out how disappointed I am with the overall depth. I don't think we're that tough a team anymore. I think the drop off from Giroux and Coururier to Cousins and Bellemare is massive.

I personally don't want to overrate our players when clearly we have holes in a lot of areas. This summer I've heard Radko Gudas refered to as an offensive defenseman who could hold his own along side Shayne Gostisbehere as first pair defenders because Ghost after one season is a legit number 1 defenseman. I mean, if this is the case, than I suppose we should be legitimate contenders right now.

I think we should be careful who we get excited about. Weise for example I have no doubt will fit well on the third line and on the second PP unit but I only have a minor excitement for that player.

I guess another example is the Karlsson vs Doughty debate as the best defenseman in the league by Flyers faithful. If Karlsson's the best defenseman in the league because his offense out weighs his defense, while Doughty is above average to dominate in all three zones, how is Sean Couturier's two way play beloved when his defensive play is what makes him so great? I guess I'm just trying to get a handle on what should impress us. Dominately pure offensive defenseman and dominately defensive forwards?
Landsbergfan
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Gävle, Sweden
Joined: 07.15.2014

Aug 29 @ 4:29 PM ET
Defined

Giroux_Is_God
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: CLASS DISMISSED
Joined: 12.15.2011

Aug 29 @ 4:30 PM ET
Gene wilder died today
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 4:32 PM ET
It is like a hole the size of Boyd Gordon after G and Coots
- YuenglingJagr

My apologies, the 32 year old former Arizona and Edmonton property should be the Angkor this bottom 6 needs.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 29 @ 4:37 PM ET
The thing is the trap, left wing lock, whatever they call it now, is the most notorious reason for down scoring in the league. Almost as bad as Guy Boucher's 1-3-1 crap he played against the Flyers and Pronger sat back and dared the ref to blow the whistle and call him for delay of game.
- dragonoffrost


Hockey these days is based on the forecheck, and being aggressive in pressuring the puck all over the ice for the most part. All teams trap or some other form of passive checking in certain situations, but for the most part, that is a thing of the past.
Mononoke
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest!
Joined: 07.19.2015

Aug 29 @ 4:37 PM ET
My apologies, the 32 year old former Arizona and Edmonton property should be the Angkor this bottom 6 needs.
- roenick97


Wat?
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 29 @ 4:39 PM ET
I'm not as much making a case to keep White as I am pointing out how disappointed I am with the overall depth. I don't think we're that tough a team anymore. I think the drop off from Giroux and Coururier to Cousins and Bellemare is massive.
- roenick97


Bellemare will be a 4th line wing this season. Gordon is 4th line center and is a good faceoff guy.

Cousins has room for improvement, sure. But he stepped up as the season went on last year. I'm willing to give him a shot this season since no prospect center is ready. We can't keep throwing away players we develop and have them work out elsewhere when we have use for them here right now. Again I guess I'm preaching Hextall's mantra of development and patience which with Cousins means is less than 50 NHL games really a fair shot?
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 4:46 PM ET
Wat?
- Mononoke


Anchor...I assumed a smart guy like you could see a typo when you see one. You've always have been spot on when it comes to pointing out the strengths of NHL talent.
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Aug 29 @ 4:48 PM ET
Wat?
- Mononoke

roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 4:49 PM ET
Bellemare will be a 4th line wing this season. Gordon is 4th line center and is a good faceoff guy.

Cousins has room for improvement, sure. But he stepped up as the season went on last year. I'm willing to give him a shot this season since no prospect center is ready. We can't keep throwing away players we develop and have them work out elsewhere when we have use for them here right now. Again I guess I'm preaching Hextall's mantra of development and patience which with Cousins means is less than 50 NHL games really a fair shot?

- dragonoffrost


Most if not all NHL regulars had to prove what makes them special enough to be in the NHL, so of course Cousins needs time. I will agree with you on this.
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: SELL THE DAMN TEAM!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Aug 29 @ 4:51 PM ET
Gene wilder died today
- Giroux_Is_God


This truly sucks
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 4:58 PM ET
My apologies, the 32 year old former Arizona and Edmonton property should be the Angkor this bottom 6 needs.
- roenick97

What are you sorry for?
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Aug 29 @ 5:00 PM ET
The problem is that none of us are the casual fan. Casual fan being the ones that would rather be watching football or UFC. In order for the sport to grow from a revenue standpoint it needs more people watching and talking about it. Like you mentioned I dont think just having goalies that suck is the answer to making the game more exciting, but there is a trend towards defensive positioning and keeping all plays to the outside and using angles to cut down dangerous scoring chances. Scoring and chances go down when this happens, but if goalies werent able to just sit back and play angles all day, then it would change things. I think if there are enough scoring chances the game is still exciting, but transitional hockey has always been more fun to watch. Just an increase in shooting percentage wont change anything. It will have to be a change in the way goals are scored (i.e. point shots that deflect twice or rebounds
- YuenglingJagr


Correct. NBA game really opened up when they removed hand checking. The NHL could do the same with interference.
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 5:08 PM ET
What are you sorry for?
- YuenglingJagr

My opinion. Don't wanna ruin anyone's day by thinking for myself and disagreeing with the rest of the herd
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Aug 29 @ 5:16 PM ET
The NHL wants to get rid of it because they are ultimately held responsible for the long term health of their former players. That liability would have to be removed before they would be okay with fighting again. There is a large group of people that would welcome that.

I do believe that hockey will never be as popular, which is why it is something they just need to decide on and work around. Viewership around the world might be necessary to grow the game, similar to how EPL is popular here in the states now.

I personally dont think the rules or structure of the game should be changed to increase scoring...it should just be smaller goalie equipment which forces them to be more aggressive on angles and could force defenders to pressure more

- YuenglingJagr


I actually think there is significant room for growth. The league office has just done so many things poorly and is very backward thinking.
KINGKENZO
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: OMAR COMIN'..Head or Gut?.....Watching regular white people
Joined: 01.10.2008

Aug 29 @ 5:25 PM ET
I loved the way the show ended
- YuenglingJagr

Thank joe Pesci its over
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 6:07 PM ET
I actually think there is significant room for growth. The league office has just done so many things poorly and is very backward thinking.
- PhillySportsGuy


The winter classic has been great. The olympics helps out the casual fan. I think the trend towards rolling 4 lines is the wrong direction
PhillySportsGuy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: any donut with a hole in the middle can get (frank)ed right in its hole, NJ
Joined: 04.08.2012

Aug 29 @ 6:14 PM ET
The winter classic has been great. The olympics helps out the casual fan. I think the trend towards rolling 4 lines is the wrong direction
- YuenglingJagr


I think speeding up the game would make things better. Having 4th lines made up of skilled guys rather than fighters would help as well. To me, the biggest thing is interference. If refs would enforce interference, it would rid the game of the plodding defensemen.

The "casual fan" doesn't want to see dump and chase; they want to see up and down.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Aug 29 @ 6:20 PM ET
I think speeding up the game would make things better. Having 4th lines made up of skilled guys rather than fighters would help as well. To me, the biggest thing is interference. If refs would enforce interference, it would rid the game of the plodding defensemen.

The "casual fan" doesn't want to see dump and chase; they want to see up and down.

- PhillySportsGuy


I want to see interference eliminated also, but I also don't want to see phantom hooking penalties because a defender raised his stick parallel to his waist.
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 6:46 PM ET
I want to see interference eliminated also, but I also don't want to see phantom hooking penalties because a defender raised his stick parallel to his waist.
- MJL

I definitely remember when hooking was hooking.
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