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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings: Defining Toughness
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jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 29 @ 12:30 PM ET
Hey guys not all is bad. I mean we could have Tony Romo and he could be injured again
- 2Real


I'm not familiar with him. Which NHL team does he play for?
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Aug 29 @ 12:33 PM ET
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if both Laughton and Cousins were both gone before this team makes the next step into becoming a Cup contender. As you pointed out, there are a lot of guys with similar or better skill sets that will be knocking on the door over the next few years.
- BiggE



I could see Laughton moved for a player they don't have to protect in the expansion draft or picks at the TDl before losing him fro nothing if he doesn't have a strong or at least season that shows a little more.
dragonoffrost
Season Ticket Holder
Location: The East Coast Dump, NJ
Joined: 10.12.2015

Aug 29 @ 12:33 PM ET
I'm not familiar with him. Which NHL team does he play for?
- jmatchett383

"America's Team"
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 29 @ 12:34 PM ET
I could see Laughton moved for a player they don't have to protect in the expansion draft or picks at the TDl before losing him fro nothing if he doesn't have a strong or at least season that shows a little more.
- J35Bacher


You really don't like him, at all, do you?
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Aug 29 @ 12:38 PM ET
You really don't like him, at all, do you?
- jmatchett383



I do.

But he needs to show some more.

Nick Cousins has shown growth in his game which I wanted to see. Right now Laughton has to show more or he is either moved or exposed in the expansion draft.

I can't just keep waiting on potential.
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Aug 29 @ 12:39 PM ET
"America's Team"
- dragonoffrost



For some reason it's the team Eagles fans talk the most about. Even though they have enough of there own poop to deal with.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 29 @ 12:42 PM ET
The problem is that none of us are the casual fan. Casual fan being the ones that would rather be watching football or UFC. In order for the sport to grow from a revenue standpoint it needs more people watching and talking about it. Like you mentioned I dont think just having goalies that suck is the answer to making the game more exciting, but there is a trend towards defensive positioning and keeping all plays to the outside and using angles to cut down dangerous scoring chances. Scoring and chances go down when this happens, but if goalies werent able to just sit back and play angles all day, then it would change things. I think if there are enough scoring chances the game is still exciting, but transitional hockey has always been more fun to watch. Just an increase in shooting percentage wont change anything. It will have to be a change in the way goals are scored (i.e. point shots that deflect twice or rebounds
- YuenglingJagr


I don't think hockey will ever have a "casual fan." People will watch for the Olympics and will tune in if their local team is making a playoff run, but as for the regular season, people in the USA don't care to see a bunch of Canadians and Europeans shoot a disc around the ice with a bunch of random lines all over the place.

However, you did make a great point. Right now, the UFC is as popular as ever. Rousey became a household name. The American people will pay money to see two men (or women) participate in a cage fight. So what does the NHL do? Try to remove/temper fighting as much as possible. Honestly, the American people WANT to see people fight. The NHL can preach about safety and legitimacy all they want, but the American public likes watching men fight.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 29 @ 12:47 PM ET
I do.

But he needs to show some more.

Nick Cousins has shown growth in his game which I wanted to see. Right now Laughton has to show more or he is either moved or exposed in the expansion draft.

I can't just keep waiting on potential.

- J35Bacher


I don't know, you just seem to ride him pretty hard and pretty often. It's okay, we all have our guy that we're underwhelmed with (mine is Nick Schultz). I agree that he has to do more, but I'm willing to let it happen than to bang him all that hard. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but you seem to have some venom for the guy. I agree that he is funny looking, though.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 12:50 PM ET
I don't think hockey will ever have a "casual fan." People will watch for the Olympics and will tune in if their local team is making a playoff run, but as for the regular season, people in the USA don't care to see a bunch of Canadians and Europeans shoot a disc around the ice with a bunch of random lines all over the place.

However, you did make a great point. Right now, the UFC is as popular as ever. Rousey became a household name. The American people will pay money to see two men (or women) participate in a cage fight. So what does the NHL do? Try to remove/temper fighting as much as possible. Honestly, the American people WANT to see people fight. The NHL can preach about safety and legitimacy all they want, but the American public likes watching men fight.

- jmatchett383


The NHL wants to get rid of it because they are ultimately held responsible for the long term health of their former players. That liability would have to be removed before they would be okay with fighting again. There is a large group of people that would welcome that.

I do believe that hockey will never be as popular, which is why it is something they just need to decide on and work around. Viewership around the world might be necessary to grow the game, similar to how EPL is popular here in the states now.

I personally dont think the rules or structure of the game should be changed to increase scoring...it should just be smaller goalie equipment which forces them to be more aggressive on angles and could force defenders to pressure more
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 12:51 PM ET
I don't know, you just seem to ride him pretty hard and pretty often. It's okay, we all have our guy that we're underwhelmed with (mine is Nick Schultz). I agree that he has to do more, but I'm willing to let it happen than to bang him all that hard. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but you seem to have some venom for the guy. I agree that he is funny looking, though.
- jmatchett383


So he's funny looking and thats why you dont want to bang him hard?
J35Bacher
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 04.03.2014

Aug 29 @ 12:56 PM ET
I don't know, you just seem to ride him pretty hard and pretty often. It's okay, we all have our guy that we're underwhelmed with (mine is Nick Schultz). I agree that he has to do more, but I'm willing to let it happen than to bang him all that hard. Maybe I'm just reading it wrong, but you seem to have some venom for the guy. I agree that he is funny looking, though.
- jmatchett383



All I have said is he needs to show more.

Now I know he had some injuries but people pound Wilson for being a high pick and not doing a lot.

I know players develop differently. Just would like to see a little more from him
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 29 @ 12:57 PM ET
So he's funny looking and thats why you dont want to bang him hard?
- YuenglingJagr


No, that's why I do want to bang him hard. Us funny looking dudes need to bro down with each other.
OrangeAndBlack1
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I'm not telling.
Joined: 11.29.2011

Aug 29 @ 1:31 PM ET
Thanks Bill. Great stuff as usual. The characteristics of toughness are many as you have mentioned.
As long as a player continues to improve, has a good work ethic, and gives an effort no matter what team he's playing against, then I am OK with that player. There are silent leaders, and vocal leaders. However, there is a roll for the players on every team. The trouble is finding the right balance of players, and the right team chemistry that makes a GM's job so difficult. For example, you can't have a team made up of only grinders; you need finishers, and two-way players as well. These players need to have the desire to win, work hard, and to do what it takes to bring home the Stanley Cup.
I can't stand guys that don't fight through checks, or at least try. Or, guys that can't play their primary position, because they are trying to do too many other things at once. Or, guys that give up on plays, and go for a line change. Or, guys that play on their cell phones during practice. A desire to play the game, and being able to focus for 82+ games is not an easy thing to find as a character trait in a player. I realize that there is a time for fun, but there is also a time for work, and commitment. The league is full of spoiled kids, and those not willing to pay the price to win a game. Thus, I am against the watering down, and expansion of the league. However, I do realize that it is a sport, and a form of entertainment. Go Vegas Tumbleweeds...lol.
The_Journeyman
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Saskatoon, SK
Joined: 02.13.2015

Aug 29 @ 1:38 PM ET
Nick Cousins is like a light version of tomas sandstrom or esa tikkanen. Nobody liked either of them unless they were on your team. I think if Cousins models himself into something like those examples he can have purpose and success on a lot of teams.
rinaldo
Joined: 05.10.2011

Aug 29 @ 1:41 PM ET
Bill will grossman be in the nhl this year do you think?
Mononoke
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest!
Joined: 07.19.2015

Aug 29 @ 2:44 PM ET
I think John Stone, Attorney at Law is tough
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 2:59 PM ET
I think John Stone, Attorney at Law is tough
- Mononoke


I loved the way the show ended
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Aug 29 @ 3:05 PM ET
I loved the way the show ended
- YuenglingJagr


Meh, I don't like endings like that. I mean, sure, you can rewatch it and realize that no one interacted with Bruce Willis' character the entire time, but it's silly. The part where Darth Vader revealed that he was Luke Skywalker's father though, that part had me all like "WTF mate!?" But the high point was probably when Hurley became the new emperor of the world after pulling off the Hulk Hogan leg drop on the smoke monster.
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 3:09 PM ET
Meh, I don't like endings like that. I mean, sure, you can rewatch it and realize that no one interacted with Bruce Willis' character the entire time, but it's silly. The part where Darth Vader revealed that he was Luke Skywalker's father though, that part had me all like "WTF mate!?" But the high point was probably when Hurley became the new emperor of the world after pulling off the Hulk Hogan leg drop on the smoke monster.
- jmatchett383


You're right...the Bruce Willis part felt a little old. Kinda wish someone told me died from the beginning so I didnt have to watch all 8 episodes
Mononoke
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest!
Joined: 07.19.2015

Aug 29 @ 3:36 PM ET
I loved the way the show ended
- YuenglingJagr


It should've ended no other way
YuenglingJagr
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: under the bridge
Joined: 10.05.2015

Aug 29 @ 3:38 PM ET
It should've ended no other way
- Mononoke


The show or the Flyers season?
Mononoke
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: I'd do anything to get you humans out of my forest!
Joined: 07.19.2015

Aug 29 @ 3:40 PM ET




arichardson22
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Aug 29 @ 3:42 PM ET
I think John Stone, Attorney at Law is tough
- Mononoke


His closing argument speech may have been my favorite part about the whole show. I enjoyed the ending and also did not enjoy the ending. Overall loved the show though.
PLindbergh31
Location: NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

Aug 29 @ 3:47 PM ET



- Mononoke


First Mr. Fuji, now Wilder drops dead. This week sucks.
roenick97
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Canada, MI
Joined: 12.23.2006

Aug 29 @ 4:01 PM ET
Here's the thing in today's NHL you don't need to back up the chatter if the other guy is getting the penalty. Which is what Cousins is excelling at. He draws the penalty so well he doesn't need to fight. Take the power play and move on. I wouldn't be shocked if Cousins has to fight a few times this year cause the guy he pisses off won't totally bite. We'll see more as the season goes on but I'm thinking he's viewed as bringing what White brought sandpaper wise and a little more during even strength play. So then go get a guy like Weise who is a PP2 and Line 3 winger. Who can slide up lines at even strength if needed which White would never have done.
- dragonoffrost


Again, all things Sean Avery offered, which still wasn't much.
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