Monahan is more productive than Eichel...maybe not for long but he was last year so your argument there is invalid
- bulet13

I was talking bigger picture.

Eichel was about 40% more productive than Monahan was in his first year. He's had 2 more years of experience yet it equates into only about 8 more points than Eichels rookie season...for me that doesn't translate into Monahan as a more valuable player.

Source?
- Feds91Stammer

The Farmers Almanac

JFC I'm not saying Draisaitl is going to be the better player or have a better career, I'm saying he is better as of this moment.
- Feds91Stammer

Source?

I mean, if we're gonna cherry pick and not factor in the time each player was more successful, there was a stretch at the beginning of the season where he only 14 points in 32 games and a stretch in February where he only scored 7 points in 14 games. If we're going to ignore Draisaitl's scoring streak because it was "only 30 games" then it's only fair to do the same for Eichel.

The fact is, Draisaitl scored at an above-PPG pace for the first 30 games of this season. While his production certainly dropped off in the latter half of the year, he still terrorized the league with Hall for those 30 games. Beyond offense (because that's important to consider), he posted far better possession numbers on a weaker team, stronger shot metrics, and was 7 percent better on the dot (41% to 48.4%). As of now, I'd give the edge (because it's close) to Leon, but am comfortable saying Eichel will surely surpass him this year.
- MaximumBone

It wasn't 30 games, it was 20 games, in other words, that's almost 100 games of crap, 20 games of a hot streak.

Slightly different with Eichel, where after the FIRST 32 games of his career, he basically took off and had no issues.

Look, he just doesn't impress me. Get over it, such is life.

I was talking bigger picture.

Eichel was about 40% more productive than Monahan was in his first year. He's had 2 more years of experience yet it equates into only about 8 more points than Eichels rookie season...for me that doesn't translate into Monahan as a more valuable player.
- nikel

Unless he's on the Sabres...

Because I watch both players play hockey. Eichel was way better the second half of the season... Draisaitl is a good player, and I'm happy we have him, but Eichel is a special player...
- laughs2907

Eichel also carries the puck like no one else in the league. Controlled zone entries, through the neutral zone. It's a sportsnet article, and they were giving credit to an American, so you know it's legit.



He was 5th in the league in controlled zone entries. Only behind Malkin, Gaudreau, Hall, and Panarin.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...s-a-puck-carrying-phenom/

That was only in February, but if anything he got better after that. Certainly points wise he did and his overall game was better as well. He's special now and will be in the future. I think it's McDavid and a push between Barkov and Eichel with maybe a slight edge to Eichel because he's younger, like when two weightlifters put up the same weight but the lighter person breaks the tie. Then Draisaitl and MacKinnon.

There's nothing wrong with being a good 2nd line center... Will he be better than that? Who knows? Time will tell... All I can say for sure is that right now, Eichel is the superior player.
- laughs2907

We'll never know unless he goes to another team. Playing behind or with McDavid will forever taint his numbers. At least with Malkin there were long periods of time with Sid hurt and he played like a #1.

Eichel also carries the puck like no one else in the league. Controlled zone entries, through the neutral zone. It's a sportsnet article, and they were giving credit to an American, so you know it's legit.



He was 5th in the league in controlled zone entries. Only behind Malkin, Gaudreau, Hall, and Panarin.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...s-a-puck-carrying-phenom/

That was only in February, but if anything he got better after that. Certainly points wise he did and his overall game was better as well. He's special now and will be in the future. I think it's McDavid and a push between Barkov and Eichel with maybe a slight edge to Eichel because he's younger, like when two weightlifters put up the same weight but the lighter person breaks the tie. Then Draisaitl and MacKinnon.
- Wetbandit1

No doubt... In Eichel, I believe Buffalo has one of the biggest assets in the game. He's awesome, and a treat to watch. He's the reason I watch every Sabre's game I can.

We'll never know unless he goes to another team. Playing behind or with McDavid will forever taint his numbers. At least with Malkin there were long periods of time with Sid hurt and he played like a #1.
- Wetbandit1

I hope that doesn't continue to happen to McDavid

It wasn't 30 games, it was 20 games, in other words, that's almost 100 games of crap, 20 games of a hot streak.

Slightly different with Eichel, where after the FIRST 32 games of his career, he basically took off and had no issues.

Look, he just doesn't impress me. Get over it, such is life.
- prock

From his first game on October 29th, he proceeded to score 31 points in 30 through the end of December. The closest you get to twenty is if you cut off the the last two games in December where he didn't score. That's still 28. I'm also not the one claiming that cold streaks shouldn't be considered; merely countering with your own logic.

Hey, if you believe that 20 points in 40 games while posting positive possession statistics at age 20 classifies as bad then by all means carry on thinking that way. However it doesn't make you right. Get over yourself.

As I said, I doubt he'll have much trouble establishing his dominance in this debate this coming year. I just don't agree that he's currently a better overall player.

We'll never know unless he goes to another team. Playing behind or with McDavid will forever taint his numbers. At least with Malkin there were long periods of time with Sid hurt and he played like a #1.
- Wetbandit1

I don't know that I believe that that should be the case (whether discussing Leon or anyone else), though. Sure in away games he'd be the secondary offensive concern to McDavid, but in home games he'll also play second fiddle to McDavid in receiving prime o-zone starts. Depending on how his two-way game grows, he may even be used in matchups against the opposition's top players when the Oil would have last change.

The counter to this argument would be O'Reilly. Should assessment of Eichel be docked for having a shutdown center taking on the hardest competition while he's fed more favourable starts and competition? Not in my opinion as I believe the affect this has balances out through home and away games.

Larkin had a pretty crappy finish to the season, too.

Draisaitl is still the best forward from the 2014 draft.
- TwoPieceFeed

I don't mean to sound like a homer, but Fabbri at least deserves to be in the discussion of forwards drafted in 2014. It took him a while to settle in during the season, and he has a lot to learn, but he was arguably the best rookie forward in the playoffs.

I don't know that I believe that that should be the case (whether discussing Leon or anyone else), though. Sure in away games he'd be the secondary offensive concern to McDavid, but in home games he'll also play second fiddle to McDavid in receiving prime o-zone starts. Depending on how his two-way game grows, he may even be used in matchups against the opposition's top players when the Oil would have last change.

The counter to this argument would be O'Reilly. Should assessment of Eichel be docked for having a shutdown center taking on the hardest competition while he's fed more favourable starts and competition? Not in my opinion as I believe the affect this has balances out through home and away games.
- MaximumBone

I agree, it's more of a perception thing. Do we take away from Kane because he plays behind Toews? It's not the same position, but he's on the "2nd" line. No. But if you're not the #1 it somehow taints the numbers in the eyes of most. Like "can he really carry a team without 'Joe (frank)face'?".

Eichel also carries the puck like no one else in the league. Controlled zone entries, through the neutral zone. It's a sportsnet article, and they were giving credit to an American, so you know it's legit.



He was 5th in the league in controlled zone entries. Only behind Malkin, Gaudreau, Hall, and Panarin.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/h...s-a-puck-carrying-phenom/

That was only in February, but if anything he got better after that. Certainly points wise he did and his overall game was better as well. He's special now and will be in the future. I think it's McDavid and a push between Barkov and Eichel with maybe a slight edge to Eichel because he's younger, like when two weightlifters put up the same weight but the lighter person breaks the tie. Then Draisaitl and MacKinnon.
- Wetbandit1

- HealthyScratch6

That's what I get for not caring about going back and fixing one half of a line one time. I go back and correct typos in my posts. So the one time I realized I should've said something a bit more clear like "he carries the puck like no one's business" I get called out for it. It was secondary to the focus of the post which was that he was already the elite of the elite in carrying the puck after just four months on the job. And that his play only increased from that point on.

I agree, it's more of a perception thing. Do we take away from Kane because he plays behind Toews? It's not the same position, but he's on the "2nd" line. No. But if you're not the #1 it somehow taints the numbers in the eyes of most. Like "can he really carry a team without 'Joe (frank)face'?".
- Wetbandit1

Exactly. Both have some sheltering, but in different ways. To me, Eichel seems like Taylor Hall at C with better hands and a more accurate shot. He rushes the puck with the same assertiveness, bulls his way to the inside, and has comparable speed. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him succeed more than Hall because of the supporting cast he's got (O'Reilly, Reinhart, and Ristolainen) compared to Hall's when he entered the league (Horcoff, Eberle, and Whitney).

From his first game on October 29th, he proceeded to score 31 points in 30 through the end of December. The closest you get to twenty is if you cut off the the last two games in December where he didn't score. That's still 28. I'm also not the one claiming that cold streaks shouldn't be considered; merely countering with your own logic.

Hey, if you believe that 20 points in 40 games while posting positive possession statistics at age 20 classifies as bad then by all means carry on thinking that way. However it doesn't make you right. Get over yourself.

As I said, I doubt he'll have much trouble establishing his dominance in this debate this coming year. I just don't agree that he's currently a better overall player.
- MaximumBone

26 points in his first 20. 5 in his next 10 games. He had 20 good games, and the last 10 you're looking at are productive at the lousy pace he manages for the rest of the year.

I get that he's only 20, and i think he will be a decent player. But the hype train on this kid is out of control. It's nearing the hype oilers fans gave Sam gagner

Larkin had a pretty crappy finish to the season, too.

Draisaitl is still the best forward from the 2014 draft.
- TwoPieceFeed

I think everyone is forgetting about reinhart. He started the season on the 4th line and worked himself up to top 6. He is much better defensively then both of them and he really isnt close. He is known for his hockey smarts and two way play.

If we look at the 20 games because larkin and draisaitl both started hot and cooled off.

Larkin 6 points in last 20 games
Draisaitl 8 points in last 20 games
Reinhart 14 points in last 20 games

Reinhart will be best player minus exblad in this draft.

I will not even discuss Eichel not in top 5 because you shouldn't even write on this if you don't think he isn't at least top five.

and here i was thinking this would be a boring discussion

I think everyone is forgetting about reinhart. He started the season on the 4th line and worked himself up to top 6. He is much better defensively then both of them and he really isnt close. He is known for his hockey smarts and two way play.

If we look at the 20 games because larkin and draisaitl both started hot and cooled off.

Larkin 6 points in last 20 games
Draisaitl 8 points in last 20 games
Reinhart 14 points in last 20 games

Reinhart will be best player minus exblad in this draft.

I will not even discuss Eichel not in top 5 because you shouldn't even write on this if you don't think he isn't at least top five.
- hanleyaj

yeah, I do'nt think Reinhart stands out from the crowd either.

Honestly, I don't think you can really say any of Reinhart, Bennett, Draisatl, Larkin, Nylander, can you really say stick out as a better young prospect/player at this point. You could make an argument for every one of them ending up as the best. None of them really seem a significant step ahead of the rest of them at this point.

yeah, I do'nt think Reinhart stands out from the crowd either.

Honestly, I don't think you can really say any of Reinhart, Bennett, Draisatl, Larkin, Nylander, can you really say stick out as a better young prospect/player at this point. You could make an argument for every one of them ending up as the best. None of them really seem a significant step ahead of the rest of them at this point.
- prock

I agree it is way to early to say who is the best player but to not even mention him in the conversation is just wrong. I would say he had the best season from start to finish then any forward in the that draft. Only time will tell who is right but i would take Reinhart over any other forward in that draft.

I agree it is way to early to say who is the best player but to not even mention him in the conversation is just wrong. I would say he had the best season from start to finish then any forward in the that draft. Only time will tell who is right but i would take Reinhart over any other forward in that draft.
- hanleyaj

He's in the conversation. I don't think you can really claim he separated himself this season though.