Cleveland, the city whose river caught fire.



Other thing in play is that Lebron plays a significant portion of every game - as much as 90% of the time he's on the court. At least 2/3 of the time, NHL superstars are sitting on the bench.

I'm not sure what hockey can learn from basketball. Basketball announcers are idiots, too. I'm sure hockey's crews sound just fine to people who tune in but aren't die-hard fans, can't name every player, mostly don't know what is going on.

Reffing in the NBA is just as silly. And league discipline, too. Green should have been suspended during the OKC series, but then probably shouldn't have been suspended during the final. Same kind of deal as the NHL's wobbly consistency.

And in the NBA, because of the "favorable" treatment of superstars, if you don't have a superstar you have no chance to compete. The NHL can not afford to have a top-heavy league. They did before the lockout and a bunch of franchises were in trouble, including the Penguins.

So the question becomes, should the NHL be a deep league with many healthy franchises, or a shallow league with fewer teams capable of spreading out the superstars?

in order:
- You obviously did not watch the GS - OKC series if you think the refs don't favor GS
- Maybe you don't understand the definition of travel. Sure it happens sometimes, but most of the time the refs catch it. (Lebron was called at least 3-4 times the last two games on it)
- I guess you haven't seen much of GS. Throwing up unusual shots has been the splash bros. forte. Nothing new. Its just great defense by Cleveland. If you recall games 3,4, they set records for finals scoring. A lot of finals have had way less scoring
- Good. Doesn't seem you understand the game anyway
- DeflatedPucks

I'm not gonna get in depth here, but the "travel/continuation" point was spot on, to me. Most players who drive the net for a dunk or layup do travel nowadays. You can take 2 steps and a pivot, and you can continue your motion while receiving a pass. I'm not saying these guys are Patrick Ewing, but a lot of the fundamentals and rules have been lost to emphasize the stars.

Should he every time? Probably not. But once in a while would be nice. I would actully love to see that. lol
- Scoob

And his coworkers would ridicule him and he'd likely be fired.

I worked one 4-hour day with him and some of his coworkers doing a side job on a slightly warm March day. How he does that day-in/day-out amazes me.

But no, let's let a bunch of guys who play a game every few days pound their chests and jump up and down for doing what they get paid millions of dollars to do.

It's not about hurting feelings, it's about doing what you're paid for.

Best example: linebacker stops a running back for a 2-yeard gain on 3rd and 5. He gets up pounding his chest and making hand gestures proclaiming his superiority. Dude, YOU GET PAID TO DO THAT, AND MORE THAN THAT, YOU SHOULDN'T LET HIM GET ANY YARDS.

My dad is 60 years old and works outside as a tree surgeon every day in the blistering heat and in the dead of winter. Should he do a dance every time he puts a log into the wood chipper when it's 102 degrees outside?
- jmatchett383

Are tree surgeons (lol) entertainers?

The NBA is all about fantasy. Every back yard hoopster dreams of being Lebron James, or beating him. Without the big star though, ratings drop. It was like when every amateur golfer fantasized of being Tiger Woods until he went to crap and tons stopped watching. But the actual product stinks. That why the conversation around the NBA is always greatest all time rankings. Where does Lebron rank. Before him it was where does Kobe rank. It's never talking about present rivalries or teams versus teams because the present is full of boring games after boring games. Last nights game was compelling so the talking heads will completely ignore the rest of the bore that was this series, the playoffs, and the irrelevant regular season.

Hockey has a lot of issues but following the NBA's lead isn't the answer.
- psuhockey

I actually think this finals series and the Golden State-Thunder series were the two most interesting series in the NBA's recent memory.

in order:
- You obviously did not watch the GS - OKC series if you think the refs don't favor GS
- Maybe you don't understand the definition of travel. Sure it happens sometimes, but most of the time the refs catch it. (Lebron was called at least 3-4 times the last two games on it)
- I guess you haven't seen much of GS. Throwing up unusual shots has been the splash bros. forte. Nothing new. Its just great defense by Cleveland. If you recall games 3,4, they set records for finals scoring. A lot of finals have had way less scoring
- Good. Doesn't seem you understand the game anyway
- DeflatedPucks

1. I already said I didn't watch any of the other games. Maybe the reffing was biased the other way in those games but still the point stands. It shouldn't be biased in any games.
2. I know the definition of travelling. I played all through highschool and was captain of our team. I still ref today. I know much better than you obviously.
3. See point one. I haven't watched. It's ugly ball regardless.
4. I understand far better than you. I still play real basketball. James Naismith ( the Canadian inventor of basketball) rolls in his grave watching what has become of the game he invented.

You seem like a typical bandwagon pens fan...

Are tree surgeons (lol) entertainers?
- Blackstrom2

I get what jmatch is saying but yeah these guys are paid to be entertainers basically. They want to get the fans pumped up. Happy fans = money


IMHO!

How could you watch basketball when GOT was "Battle of the Bastards"? The most satisfying episode of that series yet!!!!
- sammy87

Two parts Braveheart, one part Lord of the Rings. That was an all time episode.

Are tree surgeons (lol) entertainers?
- Blackstrom2

So...you need players doing somersaults and hand gestures to be entertained? Funny, I am usually entertained by the sport and don't need a 5-second spurt by some multmillionaire doing what he's supposed to in order to be entertained?

Two parts Braveheart, one part Lord of the Rings. That was an all time episode.
- Victoro311[/quo
I'm still wanting to see Cersei die a long painful death.

1. I already said I didn't watch any of the other games. Maybe the reffing was biased the other way in those games but still the point stands. It shouldn't be biased in any games.
2. I know the definition of travelling. I played all through highschool and was captain of our team. I still ref today. I know much better than you obviously.
3. See point one. I haven't watched. It's ugly ball regardless.
4. I understand far better than you. I still play real basketball. James Naismith ( the Canadian inventor of basketball) rolls in his grave watching what has become of the game he invented.

You seem like a typical pens fan...
- Iggysbff

1. Your point that "Very biased towards Cleveland." is false. Love was also called twice for fouls. Point is, refs miss a lot of stuff. NBA game is very physical. Sometimes you can't catch something and call goes the wrong way. But that's not to say the refs are trying to steer a team in a certain direction. If they did, the series never would have been 3-1 in the first placeThis was way diff than 2001 WCSF
2. You were captain??!! omfg
3. maybe to you
4. You must have thought 80s/90s bad boy basketball was too tough for yourself and Naismith

"I still play real basketball" I doubt it

Always good when one of the super villains die a nasty death.
- Iggysbff

C'mon dude. Internet etiquette. Spoilers.

Always good when one of the super villains die a nasty death.

I'm still wanting to see Cersei die a long painful death.
- Iggysbff

Oh (frank) you

I agree with a lot of what the posters said about the uniqueness of the NHL and no need to "follow" the NBA, but Ryan makes a lot of great points.

I have no problem with celebration, even the one Ovechkin did. Does it cross the line? No more than a spike in football, it's nothing more (in my view) than one guy expressing character, joy and flamboyance. If you don't want Terrell Owens to pull out a sharpy or Ovechkin to do his fire stick thing, stop 'em.

The "act like you've been there before" mantra is so used up. NOTHING wrong with showing joy, expressing yourself.

I also think the NHL needs to loosen the game up. Sorry, but I LIKE hockey on big ice. I enjoy watching the Olympics. You see a lot less clutch and grab, more open ice, and more dynamics. The days of dump and chase (at least as the primary system), forecheck hard and toss in a little meat (head) hockey should be gone. The way the Blackhawks won their Cups and the way the Penguins won their Cup was beautiful...speed, skill!! No goonery, no tricks...just here is our speed, catch us if you can. SKATING! Still the MOST important skill in hockey and no one did it better than Pittsburgh.

I get just as much pleasure out of seeing Patrick Kane with the puck on his stick, Alex Ovehckin firing a nasty wrister, Sidney Crosby making a brilliant between his feet pass than seeing two goofeballs pound each other's helmets with their fists just to "create energy".

In the end, the NHL will not be as popular as those sports, because it's not easy to play hockey. You need ice first of all and if you don't live where it naturally occurs (like in most of the USA) then you have to find a rink, maybe even get on a team...oh yea, to play hockey for a team playing in a building costs lots of money.

How much does it cost to play hoops? I can go buy a $15 basketball today and walk across the street to the school and shoot.

I think hockey is the greatest sport in the world, I love it so much, my 3 kids and I have built our relationships on the ice, at the rink, in a car to and from a rink. I have one kid going to Penn State to play to play hockey. But it still has a large margin to make up and I doubt it ever will make it up as compared to those other sports. That said, I think the NHL should try to fix what ails the game.

Always good when one of the super villains die a nasty death.

I'm still wanting to see Cersei die a long painful death.
- Iggysbff

Thanks for letting those of us who haven't had the chance to watch it yet know.

I UNDERSTAND BASKETBALL BETTER THAN YOU, BRO!

NO BRO, I UNDERSTAND IT MORE THAN YOU.

BRO, YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, BRO!

YO BRO, STOP ACTING LIKE YOU UNDERSTAND IT!

Thanks for letting those of us who haven't had the chance to watch it yet know.
- jmatchett383

Sorry

1. Your point that "Very biased towards Cleveland." is false. Love was also called twice for fouls. Point is, refs miss a lot of stuff. NBA game is very physical. Sometimes you can't catch something and call goes the wrong way. But that's not to say the refs are trying to steer a team in a certain direction. If they did, the series never would have been 3-1 in the first placeThis was way diff than 2001 WCSF
2. You were captain??!! omfg
3. maybe to you
4. You must have thought 80s/90s bad boy basketball was too tough for yourself and Naismith

I still play real basketball I doubt it
- DeflatedPucks

Not biased to Cleveland, but certainly biased towards LeBron... and Curry... and just about any super star. What we saw in this series were terrible calls both ways because both sides of the court were star studded. People will point to Game 6 where Curry fouled out and say it was rigged, but I saw a lot of pretty horrendous calls going both ways in order to give this star or that star the benefit of the doubt. Curry just happened to get six in one game which was a once in a blue moon occurrence and may never happen again.

Two parts Braveheart, one part Lord of the Rings. That was an all time episode.
- Victoro311

The image of Snow and the cavalry charging him was epic!!!!

Sorry
- Iggysbff

Yeah...not funny at all.

C'mon dude. Internet etiquette. Spoilers.
- Victoro311

My bad. I broke the 24 hour rule.

I agree with a lot of what the posters said about the uniqueness of the NHL and no need to "follow" the NBA, but Ryan makes a lot of great points.

I have no problem with celebration, even the one Ovechkin did. Does it cross the line? No more than a spike in football, it's nothing more (in my view) than one guy expressing character, joy and flamboyance. If you don't want Terrell Owens to pull out a sharpy or Ovechkin to do his fire stick thing, stop 'em.

The "act like you've been there before" mantra is so used up. NOTHING wrong with showing joy, expressing yourself.

I also think the NHL needs to loosen the game up. Sorry, but I LIKE hockey on big ice. I enjoy watching the Olympics. You see a lot less clutch and grab, more open ice, and more dynamics. The days of dump and chase, forecheck hard and toss in a little meat (head) hockey should be gone. You want to see a staged fight? Go watch MMA.

I get just as much please our of seeing Patrick Kane with the puck on his stick, Alex Ovehckin firing a nasty wrister, Sidney Crosby making a brilliant between his feet pass than seeing two goofeballs pound each other's helmets with their fists just to "create energy".

In the end, the NHL will not be as popular as those sports, because it's not easy to play hockey. You need ice first of all and if you don't live where it naturally occurs (like in most of the USA) then you have to find a rink, maybe even get on a team...oh yea, to play hockey for a team playing in a building costs lots of money.

How much does it cost to play hoops? I can go buy a $15 basketball today and walk across the street to the school and shoot.

I think hockey is the greatest sport in the world, I love it so much, my 3 kids and I have built our relationships on the ice, at the rink, in a car to and from a rink. I have one kid going to Penn State to play to play hockey. But it still has a large margin to make up and I doubt it ever will make it up as compared to those other sports. That said, I think the NHL should try to fix what ails the game.
- kwolf68

That's the biggest hindrance IMHO! You can play football/basketball/baseball anywhere as a kid. Just need the ball. Whereas hockey, you need ice. Now some can argue street hockey or roller hockey, but to really grow into the sport you need to skate on ice. And not every school/town/city has the funds available to build an ice rink. Also factor in the cost of equipment versus the other sports.

I agree with a lot of what the posters said about the uniqueness of the NHL and no need to "follow" the NBA, but Ryan makes a lot of great points.

I have no problem with celebration, even the one Ovechkin did. Does it cross the line? No more than a spike in football, it's nothing more (in my view) than one guy expressing character, joy and flamboyance. If you don't want Terrell Owens to pull out a sharpy or Ovechkin to do his fire stick thing, stop 'em.

The "act like you've been there before" mantra is so used up. NOTHING wrong with showing joy, expressing yourself.

I also think the NHL needs to loosen the game up. Sorry, but I LIKE hockey on big ice. I enjoy watching the Olympics. You see a lot less clutch and grab, more open ice, and more dynamics. The days of dump and chase, forecheck hard and toss in a little meat (head) hockey should be gone. The way the Blackhawks won their Cups and the way the Penguins won their Cup was beautiful...speed, skill!! No goonery, no tricks...just here is our speed, catch us if you can. SKATING! Still the MOST important skill in hockey and no one did it better than Pittsburgh.

I get just as much pleasure out of seeing Patrick Kane with the puck on his stick, Alex Ovehckin firing a nasty wrister, Sidney Crosby making a brilliant between his feet pass than seeing two goofeballs pound each other's helmets with their fists just to "create energy".

In the end, the NHL will not be as popular as those sports, because it's not easy to play hockey. You need ice first of all and if you don't live where it naturally occurs (like in most of the USA) then you have to find a rink, maybe even get on a team...oh yea, to play hockey for a team playing in a building costs lots of money.

How much does it cost to play hoops? I can go buy a $15 basketball today and walk across the street to the school and shoot.

I think hockey is the greatest sport in the world, I love it so much, my 3 kids and I have built our relationships on the ice, at the rink, in a car to and from a rink. I have one kid going to Penn State to play to play hockey. But it still has a large margin to make up and I doubt it ever will make it up as compared to those other sports. That said, I think the NHL should try to fix what ails the game.
- kwolf68

I agree. Olympic Ice would be great at the NHL level. It will never happen, but the NHL doesn't have a clue. You have Milbury doing commentary suggesting players either break bones or cause concussions is they draw a penalty. The NFL doesn't even do that. Ask any Leafs fan, they reminisce over Clark and Gilmour over Sundin anyway of the week. Just the culture of the hard core fan. They need to figure out how to get OV and Crosby to try and match 66 and 99 records, not make them unachievable.

Not biased to Cleveland, but certainly biased towards LeBron... and Curry... and just about any super star. What we saw in this series were terrible calls both ways because both sides of the court were star studded. People will point to Game 6 where Curry fouled out and say it was rigged, but I saw a lot of pretty horrendous calls going both ways in order to give this star or that star the benefit of the doubt. Curry just happened to get six in one game which was a once in a blue moon occurrence and may never happen again.
- Victoro311

Oh without a doubt. Star treatment rules the major US sports. Nobody wants to see a Lebron-less, Curry-less finals. The NBA is marketed so much more as an individual sport because stars are so much more vocal in team-building and FA. Lebron pretty much handpicked his squad

It was funny in game 6, both Curry and Love had 3 fouls by halftime and then again in gm7 last night, both again had 3 fouls apiece. Interestingly, the NBA had different referees for each of 5,6,7 (where they brought game 4 refs back in game 7)

I agree with a lot of what the posters said about the uniqueness of the NHL and no need to "follow" the NBA, but Ryan makes a lot of great points.

I have no problem with celebration, even the one Ovechkin did. Does it cross the line? No more than a spike in football, it's nothing more (in my view) than one guy expressing character, joy and flamboyance. If you don't want Terrell Owens to pull out a sharpy or Ovechkin to do his fire stick thing, stop 'em.

The "act like you've been there before" mantra is so used up. NOTHING wrong with showing joy, expressing yourself.

I also think the NHL needs to loosen the game up. Sorry, but I LIKE hockey on big ice. I enjoy watching the Olympics. You see a lot less clutch and grab, more open ice, and more dynamics. The days of dump and chase (at least as the primary system), forecheck hard and toss in a little meat (head) hockey should be gone. The way the Blackhawks won their Cups and the way the Penguins won their Cup was beautiful...speed, skill!! No goonery, no tricks...just here is our speed, catch us if you can. SKATING! Still the MOST important skill in hockey and no one did it better than Pittsburgh.

I get just as much pleasure out of seeing Patrick Kane with the puck on his stick, Alex Ovehckin firing a nasty wrister, Sidney Crosby making a brilliant between his feet pass than seeing two goofeballs pound each other's helmets with their fists just to "create energy".

In the end, the NHL will not be as popular as those sports, because it's not easy to play hockey. You need ice first of all and if you don't live where it naturally occurs (like in most of the USA) then you have to find a rink, maybe even get on a team...oh yea, to play hockey for a team playing in a building costs lots of money.

How much does it cost to play hoops? I can go buy a $15 basketball today and walk across the street to the school and shoot.

I think hockey is the greatest sport in the world, I love it so much, my 3 kids and I have built our relationships on the ice, at the rink, in a car to and from a rink. I have one kid going to Penn State to play to play hockey. But it still has a large margin to make up and I doubt it ever will make it up as compared to those other sports. That said, I think the NHL should try to fix what ails the game.
- kwolf68

Agree with this 100%. Hockey will never be as popular as basketball or football because it requires cold weather and money to get into. Weather aspect already eliminates half the country and the money aspect eliminates over half of the remaining population. Because of that the NHL shouldn't worry about getting up to NBA or NFL numbers. What it should worry about is maximizing its ceiling.

Step 1) Move teams out of garbage markets.

Step 2) Enforce your own rules on the ice in order to create more time and ice for skill players to shine.

Step 3) Give a poop about player safety so that the probability that teams' super stars are healthy any given night increases.

Step 4) Shorten the season. Hockey is too physical of a sport to facilitate an 82 game long season and a two month long post season. There's not a single player that's healthy during the SCF and that's really bad for player health and diminishes the longevity of the athletes involved.