IMO, I think one of 15 or 50 needs to be moved to address the defense and overall team depth. Like someone here said earlier, Crow was outplayed by Brian Elliot. Vezina winner Braden Holtby was outplayed by rookie Matt Murray. Jonathan Quick was outplayed by Martin Jones (The apprentice dispatched the mentor ). What did all of those Veteran, High-Quality goalies have in common this spring? An incomplete defense core in front of them. Without Orpik the Caps D was a shell of itself. Same thing can be said of Oduya for the Hawks and Alec Martinez for the Kings. DEFENSE wins championships, IMO. Address 4D (and 2LW but that just seems impossible with the tight cap) by trading 50 or 15, or I don't like the Hawks chances next Spring....
- EnzoD

No Zo, Murray did not outplay Holtby. Holtby had better across the board numbers accept the big one, wins.

Defense wins championships? Can't disagree but how did PITT do it with that bunch?........We can make excuses for the Hawk D all day long but there is no denying Seabs was spent and playing hurt and Q's masterstroke of painting himself into a corner with Rundblad and Gus as your 3rd pairing in Game 7 isn't a fair barometer of this group going forward. .....And I'd add with the train wreck that some might call the Hawk D last year the club tied for 5th in overall points.

Could be they have their #4 in Kempny and I for one expect progression from Gus and Sved with Polka and Forsling getting long looks.


Count me as one, without knowing the final roster and how much worse they are bound to be (along with most every other elite club) that a rested and HUNGRY Hawk core will have a solid chance at a deep run.

>What about Toronto or Edmonton?
>Possible?
>If not, then the scenario will play out as you outlined before
- SnapitUpstairs

Edmonton would be a no...But Toronto seems a possibility as long as Crawford agrees.

Feeding the imaginary scenarios to the herd:
Possible
Hawks pay by way of prospects for M-A Fleury to save $250,000. This is an adequate workload former team starter.
Stan says. “The idea is do get Darling more experience and Marc-Andre as adequate partner.”
Improbable
Fleury wants to play, not share, so even if the idea is to further groom Darling and have Fleury as the expansion fodder, how does this actually help?

Now lets go at the other end of the contract rolls

Possible
Hawks pay by way of lesser prospects for Michal Neuvirth to save $4.375 million. Stan says. “The idea is do get Darling more experience and since Michal has averaged 18 starts in the last fives seasons and we will attempt to hand the 62 other games to Scott as an audition for being our playoff goalie, but we also know Neuvirth has played in parts of twelve Stanley playoff games and has won six of them.”
Improbable
Why would the Flyers trade the affordable Nervirth? To throw one of their goalie prospects, Anthony Stolarz, Felix Sandstorm, or Matej Tomek into the fire???
It is a known fact now that Mason has always wanted to be the guy and carry the heavy work load-now that Ray Emery’s contract is off the books that gives him the opportunity and Neuvirth may play his way into more matches, but it begs the question: Isn’t this a move that more probably sends the Flyers backward than forward?

That’s two.

I could do this all day.

Find me Crawford lite, because I can’t find one, of fathom the coaching staffs finding comfort in such moves unless the rebuild is on.
- wiz1901

I'm curious what you think the Hawks should do, or who you would move out of the "Core" to resolve the cap issues, and signing Shaw and or Panarin?

Ray Emery

I corrected this info yesterday.

The Oilers traded defenseman Darnell Nurse with pick from New Jersey
- wiz1901

I saw that post and I'm not clear on what you mean.

As far as I know the Oilders were slated to draft 7th in 2013 and the Devils 9th. The Oilers drafted Nurse at #7 and the Devils traded #9 to the Canucks for Schneider and Vancouver then drafted Horvat. I'm not sure how The Oilers and Nurse are involved in the NJ/Vancouver trade?

http://www.draftsite.com/nhl/draft-history/2013/

They may not deal AA but I don't think the comfort thing will come into play at this point. In the beginning they surrounded AP with a couple of guys, they will have a translator and at some point guys learned more when they have to use the language.

To be clear on my point-AA is a big salary that can be moved easier than Crawford, and his replacement in some fashion can be on the roster now as well.
- Al

I understand. I'm with you and others when looking at this short term and long term in regards to cap and having t o move another decent salary.

IMO, you look at their center depth and also their hole at LW and how do you give up AA and have a hole at 1lw and roll out this lineup? I dont' think you can. that 2nd line was arguably the best in hockey and 15 did so much of the grunt work to free up space for 72/88.

IMO, It really to me comes down to 3 guys who would be moved......50/7/81. I think the contract to 16 is a joke, but again center depth is a hole so I'll leave him alone.

I would go 7/50/81 in terms o ranking who I keep. I love 81 but his finishing is down and would be a floor team's dream to get with salary only 1 million next year until duration while cap hit is over 5, assuming back door deal with Hossa is cut not to retire to eliminate recapture.

hate sounding like broken record, but this is such a hard time for Bowman, brought on by success and himself, that it will shape team for years to come.

Totally agree.

Also, If I'm Shaw, and they don't give me at least what Kruger is making, I'm not happy at all.
- Lido_Shuffle

Interesting. Both Shaw and Kruger bring different attributes to the party yet both are about 180 lbs and both take a beating out there. Now knowing they both will be making a little over 3 mill per, it really doesn't seem logical to have over 6 mill tied up in two bottom 6 forwards with the team in a cap crunch. Who's more valuable? The odds are on Kruger but what if...?

Feeding the imaginary scenarios to the herd:
Possible
Hawks pay by way of prospects for M-A Fleury to save $250,000. This is an adequate workload former team starter.
Stan says. “The idea is do get Darling more experience and Marc-Andre as adequate partner.”
Improbable
Fleury wants to play, not share, so even if the idea is to further groom Darling and have Fleury as the expansion fodder, how does this actually help?

Now lets go at the other end of the contract rolls

Possible
Hawks pay by way of lesser prospects for Michal Neuvirth to save $4.375 million. Stan says. “The idea is do get Darling more experience and since Michal has averaged 18 starts in the last fives seasons and we will attempt to hand the 62 other games to Scott as an audition for being our playoff goalie, but we also know Neuvirth has played in parts of twelve Stanley playoff games and has won six of them.”
Improbable
Why would the Flyers trade the affordable Nervirth? To throw one of their goalie prospects, Anthony Stolarz, Felix Sandstorm, or Matej Tomek into the fire???
It is a known fact now that Mason has always wanted to be the guy and carry the heavy work load-now that Ray Emery’s contract is off the books that gives him the opportunity and Neuvirth may play his way into more matches, but it begs the question: Isn’t this a move that more probably sends the Flyers backward than forward?

That’s two.

I could do this all day.

Find me Crawford lite, because I can’t find one, of fathom the coaching staffs finding comfort in such moves unless the rebuild is on.
- wiz1901

Sorry, I know you know a lot about hockey but find me a Crow lite? You know for a fact Darling couldn't be Crow lite? Did you know that Matt Murray was that good before he made that playoff run this year?

Who was Crow before he found his game starting in '13? NO ONE. Are you claiming that you knew Crow would be this good back when he was choking in the playoffs? Or after he spent years in the minors? Give me a break. If Crow chokes in the '13 playoffs he is a goner.

I'd like to know your plan for filling in the 4D spot and JT's LW and the bottom 6 because I don't recall one. Do you have any ideas on how to create more cap space for this team? Who should we trade? Or do you think we have enough space currently to fill in the holes?

You just blast away and criticize other posters ideas.

Do you think this team keeping Crow next year can win a cup with league minimum guys filling in the rest of the roster? I don't and I hope the front office doesn't or it will be a long season and short playoff.

I wonder if the Hawks are still "apologizing" for letting all the talent go in the 90's. Meaning, Rocky is hinting to the FO to keep the core, so we don't have the talent exodus. Roenick, Belfour, Chelios, etc.... So, now they've tipped the opposite way and gone TOO FAR locking up a core?

Just a thought.
- CanOCorn

Doubt it, but I think they counted on the cap going up, and these contracts being a good deal by now.

Question is, why did they believe the cap would be to 80 by now, what led them to that assumption?

JJ, if you want to get some good investigative info, this is something I've wondered about, they had to think the cap was going up, someone led them to believe that. Who and what told them this.?

Jordie Benn make Trevor Daley look like an All-Star.

Ray Emery
- wiz1901

You kill me, you do.....

question posed to you, and while I know you hate armchair GM...have at it.

Cap is 74, you have on books TODAY 66.1 give us a solution, knowing you have to extend Panarin next year for at least 5-6 AAV and have overages their of 2.1 given similar stats to this year to warrant AAV, and figure cap next year maybe 77 thanks to escalator...again.

Show us how this works without trading a large salaried player, and pushing for the one goal......

Ray Emery
- wiz1901

You mean, trade Crow for a draft pick and sign Emery to back up Darling?

I'm curious what you think the Hawks should do, or who you would move out of the "Core" to resolve the cap issues, and signing Shaw and or Panarin?
- vabeachbear

That's the 20 million dollar question the fan club in here can't answer. Even clearing Bickell, that barely covers the overages from last year's bonuses. The Hawks cap situation is a total disaster and someone else who is good and expensive is going. I have been very vocal in NOT wanting to move Seabrook, but also recognize that could ALSO happen. Almost NOTHING is off the table in my view so it makes me laugh when people say there is no way Bowman is going to move Crawford, AA, or even Seabs...yes, a gaping hole will be created by ANY of those trades, but the Hawks have ZERO choice given the situation with the Cap.

This team probably won't be as good on a paper as the team that finished off the playoffs. .
- SteveRain

True Steve but neither will ANA, LA, TB, NYR, NYI, STL. Which ones fill roster losses cheaply best, making them less worse, is the question moving forward.

Edmonton would be a no...But Toronto seems a possibility as long as Crawford agrees.
- Al

I believe I had Toronto, Islanders, WPG, and Ottawa as places I would trade Crow a few months back when cap issues arose.

Would Lou sign off on 50, and could 50 handle the fish bowl in Toronto? Seems at times to get testy with media.....

What's the price of Hossa? Do you think you'd accept Lazar + Borowiecki for Hossa?
- riceroni

in a heartbeat....that clears Cap

True Steve but neither will ANA, LA, TB, NYR, NYI, STL. Which ones fill roster losses cheaply best, making them less worse, is the question moving forward.
- Mr Ricochet

Don't disagree but only LA is set up like Hawks will huge money tied up to core as of now. See how STL proceeds and TB.

Just saying to Johns point, this is more then just a tweak. This team was very bad at scoring 5 on 5 because there were holes up and down the lineup. that hasn't changed. That has to be corrected as does the defensive depth....

The other thing, still crickets on Schmaltz. So while everyone pencils him in, until he is singed I don't think you can. Who knows if he goes kevin hayes and seeks better long term fit for HIM.

in a heartbeat....that clears Cap
- wiz1901

He mentioned Lazar. I think that's JUST the type of player Bowman needs to go for...he has been slow to "get there" so far, but a cheaper guy with very good potential is just what this team will need to pull off.

Another name is Beau Bennett. YES, I know he is horrifically injury prone, but he could probably be had for cheap and IF he does stay healthy he could skate top 6 minutes no doubt.

Hawks have to go for THOSE type of guys...they can't afford someone without question marks. BUT, if you strike with players like Lazar or Bennett you're right back in the mix and no worse off if they fail than you would be playing scrubs, rejects and marginal NHL players.

>What about Toronto or Edmonton?
>Possible?
>If not, then the scenario will play out as you outlined before
- SnapitUpstairs

I’d be open to acquiring Crawford. But only at a discount. Certainly not including any one-piece as valuable as a 9th overall.

There are other potential options with Andersen, MAF and Reimer out there this year.

If not, with the expansion draft, it seems like we can wait a year to see if we can find a goalie on the cheap.

We have lots of picks and forward prospects to trade. Bernier would also have to be included imo.

As much as I’d like shaw too, something like Yak for Shaw and pick was trade proposal I saw once that made some sense to me.

If cap is at $74 million, and Crawford still with team....it means we have 8 million to sign 6 players to get to a 22 man roster...or sign 7 players to get to a 23 man roster.
- onehundredlevel

If one of those players is Shaw at $3 mil per? What about Panarin next year? Anyone know if he has the same bonus structure in 16-17?!

If one of those players is Shaw at $3 mil per? What about Panarin next year? Anyone know if he has the same bonus structure in 16-17?!
- John Jaeckel

He does.

So figure in 2.875 and then a possible increase in AAV over 5-6 and then figure out how bowman keeps all these high salaried guys.

I think Crawford is like Sharp....lots of smoke this summer, cbut come next summer hes' gone at the latest, prior to the expansion draft.

Sorry, I know you know a lot about hockey but find me a Crow lite? You know for a fact Darling couldn't be Crow lite? Did you know that Matt Murray was that good before he made that playoff run this year?

Who was Crow before he found his game starting in '13? NO ONE.
- bhawks2241

He was a guy they specifically drafted one of the top Quebec junior league golaies in his class, who was brought along slowly (he learned preparation along with on-ice improvements). Maybe you didn't hear of him but most here did, he was the guy asked to stay in the farm until ready, a luxury teams no longer have.
and NO I knew Matt Murray was cool under fire and one playoff doesn't fill a resume, as I said, teams will spent coutless hours finding the weak spots and exposing them. If you want to hold someone body parts in Pittsburgh, you can hold the entire team that was fierce in the back check and the back side pressure without
ever stopping their excellence...

Are you claiming that you knew Crow would be this good back when he was choking in the playoffs? Or after he spent years in the minors? Give me a break. If Crow chokes in the '13 playoffs he is a goner.
- bhawks2241

I am sure these prejudices mean something to someone.

I'd like to know your plan for filling in the 4D spot and JT's LW and the bottom 6 because I don't recall one. Do you have any ideas on how to create more cap space for this team? Who should we trade? Or do you think we have enough space currently to fill in the holes?
- bhawks2241

They at this juncture have 5 starters with the Czech. Please, don't take a tone with me, sonny, I resent it.

You just blast away and criticize other posters ideas.
- bhawks2241

Somehow I have taken on villain's role, because I have an opinion that I can back up.

Do you think this team keeping Crow next year can win a cup with league minimum guys filling in the rest of the roster? I don't and I hope the front office doesn't or it will be a long season and short playoff.
- bhawks2241

I don't think they can win one without him next year.

True Steve but neither will ANA, LA, TB, NYR, NYI, STL. Which ones fill roster losses cheaply best, making them less worse, is the question moving forward.
- Mr Ricochet

I PMed you Rico...

Been thinking about this. I've always liked Talbot and think on a top 5 team he could be a top 10 goalie and you could win a cup with this type. At 4.1 through 2018/19 you have a cost controlled guy at a good number for 3 years.

We all know Yak, former FIRST overall pick, and his problems. At 2.5 mil and an RFA problem in 2017/18 I think this guy would get first crack playing with Go Johnny Go. But his positional awareness problems might have him in Q's dog house after the 1st scrimmage. ........If the guy has a turnaround you might get a return on him as an RFA next offseason.

And I've seen and noticed Lander and like him in the 2-3 times I could make it through an Oiler game. Bottom 6, 4th line, 2 way center. 25 yr old on an ELC.......

Add that 2nd rounder and if I'm trading Crow this is palatable.
- Mr Ricochet

This one got me thinking too. A simpler version though, Crow for Talbot and their 2nd and Edmonton retains $1.17m of Talbot's contract.

If one of those players is Shaw at $3 mil per? What about Panarin next year? Anyone know if he has the same bonus structure in 16-17?!
- John Jaeckel

Yes.

http://www.spotrac.com/nh...lackhawks/artemi-panarin/