Up Ladd to 5.5

Trade Crawford

Sign Vet to back up Scotty D and then it can work, maybe


Probably have to make Shaw 3mm per
- mrpaulish

Messing around with Armchair GM a week or so ago and this is almost exactly the lineup i did. Ladd at 5, Shaw at 3.

Just referring to the bolded you have to concede that that 2010 team Nieme won a cup with was a pure powerhouse. After that all cups were won with elite goalies recognizing we'll have to wait to see if Murray is indeed elite.
- Mr Ricochet

Was Crow considered an elite goalie prior to '13? Nope. People wanted to run him out of town. He made a name for himself in the playoffs that year with an elite level of play. And the '10 team was not a power house past the big 3 on the backend.

Is Tim Thomas considered an elite goalie? He had an elite level year and amazing playoff run. Rest of his career is all over the map. Quick's second cup his playoff stats are horrible. There are also tons of elite goalies that don't sniff cups because the teams in front of them are full of holes. Much like the current Hawk roster.

Sure an elite goalie helps you win a cup if the rest of your roster is rock solid. Except maybe the '12 Kings team all the Cup champs had pretty stacked rosters (Quick that year was just unreal).

I don't think Crawford, no matter how good his play is next year, can cover the shortcomings in this roster. He couldn't this year. I do think we could plug some of those holes and ride a hot Darling to a Cup next year.

To me it is stay with Crow and have no shot at a cup next year or move him fill in the D and maybe a top 6 LW and hope to ride a hot Darling to a Cup. Trading AA for a D just makes your forward group that much worse. You want to roll into next year with 4 legitimate top 6 forwards? Maybe 3.5 offensively speaking depending on what Hossa does. We saw how meh Toews looks with a slumping Hossa and rotating LW spot.

I'd love to be proved wrong if Crow stays but I just don't see it. I think fans need to take a hard look at reality. This teams roster as constructed is above average. Rest this summer is not the cure all.

>The numbers are beyond stiffling
>Doubtful Shaw will be giving any kind of discount
>Could see a CC/Shaw's rights package trade
>Would not want a crappy goalie coming back with any kind of cap hit
>Cap space will be gold for some time
>CC has been wonderful, but think he would even admit he got outplayed by Elliot in this year's playoff series
>To win without CC, the Hawks must regain their possession dominance game
>And Darling must be aggressive and confident -- thought Darling was pretty average this year -- tentative, deep in his net, and seldom poke-checked
>And if Darling wants too much $ next year -- find another goalie
- SnapitUpstairs

Good comments Snap. There's little doubt in my mind that another significant move or two is coming this off-season.

Jimmy Howard has alot of Eddie Belfour in him. Can be lights out, but can come apart emotionally in the net too often.
- z1990z

Simply put Howard has been about average since signing his big contract.

If the cap settles at $73MM, here is how it can work:

Forwards
Toews 10,500,000
Kane 10,500,000
Hossa 5,275,000
AA 4,550,000
Ladd 4,000,000
Kruger 3,083,333
Shaw 2,500,000
Motte/Hartman 925,000
Panik 875,000
Panarin 812,500
Desi 800,000
Lundberg 692,500

$44,513,333

Seabrook 6,875,000
Keith 5,538,461
Hammer 4,100,000
TVR 825,000
Svedberg 750,000 (not on a two-way any more)
Kempny 700,000

$18,788,461

Crawford 6,000,000
Darling 587,500

$6,587,500

Overages for Scuds, Panarin, Rozy and Rundblad

$3,070,000

TOTAL $72,959,294

I might be dreaming on Shaw, Ladd, and the cap, but this lineup could work at $73MM
- Return of the Roar

Looks nice BUT Scuderi retained money is not part of the overage so you are short 1,125,000 and same with Rundblad for another 100k.
Also do we know that Kempney is at that number? I remember reaeding it was 925k at the most but Im didnt know if we had an exact by now

Would anyone here do a Seabrook for Trouba trade?
- Dannyboy

Don't think there would be many teams who would take Seabs 8 year contact.

Thanks as always JJ.

My two targets this offseason on D are Schlemko (Dude is just steady and dependable) and Travis Sanheim.

If the Hawks could deal Shaw and CC for #4 and Talbot I would be thrilled. If the Hawks dealt Shaw they could give his $ toward keeping Ladd
- ikeane

I wouldn't mind Jordie Benn to slot is an the 6th defenseman.

So, we are back to the Goalie is an inconsequential position that they can go for cheap on if they can tilt the ice in the other direction. In 2010 that was certainly the case with the exception of the Sharks series.

If they get enough quality bodies at forward and at least one other defender who can make a tape to tape pass (god forbid they get someone that can use their feet) then they will be in pretty good shape.

Totally fine with Crawford gone for salary or Crawford for a guy like Yakupov and futures. They can have an all Russian line and Patrick Kane can rejuvenate Toews. Hossa and Kooga can eat all the defensive drawings and the other teams better players.

That gets them another shot before Keith gets too old and Seabrook too fat.

Edit: Shaw doesn't get me hard like he does a lot of other folks. Especially with the injuries he has sustained later in the season and playoffs. I think his time as an "energy" player with upside is reaching an end and I'd rather not be holding that contract with the lil guy hits a wall. So, rights for futures works for me there.
- fattybeef

I don't see them trading AA, as Panarin needs that culture/language comfort zone until he fully grasps and is comfortable with the English language and American culture. Not that you were advocating trading AA, but I saw it elsewhere.

Shaw doesn't get me "hard" but he's their most versatile player, next to Hossa, and I think a 3 year deal works both ways. Hoawks aren't tied LT to a guy who could be injury prone, and if Shaw continues to succeed he cashes in again at 27.

I would love for this to be true, and I hope that it is...

However, we all saw Rundblad exiled to Switzerland only to come back and skate with the team in the playoffs. Someone in the front office loves this guy. I can't understand why, but Rundblad is still here - despite the lack of effort he puts out.

Sadly, I wouldn't be shocked if Rundblad is still here next season.
- EKB13

Even without Bickell the Hogs will have one of the largest if not the largest payroll of any AHL franchise.

Good morning....

I think Johns' statement is dead on regarding the illusion that this upcoming team's was just as good as a cup winning team. Not buying it.

This team probably won't be as good on a paper as the team that finished off the playoffs. You are essentially losing Ladd and Weisse, Teuvo, and possibly Shaw and/or Crawford or another piece. So far you have retained Panik, and signed Kempy. So on D, you may be a step better, but a step better from awful isn't good enough.

The problem remains as Bowman has to re-up vital parts to his team, he shrinks the flexibility in regards to cap space he has to supply the team and coaching staff with ample depth players. We've seen when this team wins cups, the 3rd line and depth is awful good. that isn't the case right now, and really...Bowman and his scouts are going to have to hit homeruns on Euroopean free agents and college UFAS who can step in the NOW and provide that depth, while being on the cheap.

the only what that changes is trading another high salaried player away, OR having your top stars, f/d/g carry you each and every win in the playoffs, which rarely, if ever, happens.

I agree with John......the most difficult offseason this team has faced. Even more so then 2010 because even after salary dumps the cap flexcibility still isnt' remotely enough.....

And...imagine that overage next year AND a 5+ million AAV bump to Panarin on top of it......that has to keep Bowman and Al up late at night in the dark......
- SteveRain

Have always wondered if the "core" is too big. Seems like after '10, they never have the depth. Core can't be 12 guys, but it has been for the hawks.

When LA has won, they have a smaller core and guys who came in on ELCs and really contributed, same with Pitt this year.

If you are going to have the two highest paid guys in the league, they have to be the best 2 guys in the league. The number of guys in the core is getting reduced every year. The remaining core guys have to be great. I would argue that only Kane was great this year, you could argue Panarin also. Rest of the core had their cumulative worst years in the last 5. They either have to improve, maybe rest is what they needed, or you have to start changing the core.

Agree, tough summer for Stan.

Do we think a sweetener is needed to move a two time cup winning goalie at a fair 6 mil hit?

JJ's is hearing, and has heard, a 1st rounder would come back.
- Mr Ricochet

>If the market is flooded with goalies with big contracts, having Shaw's rights in your pocket is something the other GMs do not have
>Not saying -- trade Shaw's rights -- just pointing out a scenario that could happen
>And if you can move CC for a high #1 with no salary coming back -- do it immediately
>It appears the cap will be stagnant for quite some time

Yep, you were dreaming. I liked it, but didnt seem feasible. Here's your error, the overages:
Carry-over from 2015/16 year for bonuses: $3.07m
But Scud $1.125m and Runbad $100k are NOT in that $3.07m figure.
So you're $1.2m short of the money needed for that roster.

BTW, I would bet if they dont have plans for Runbad he will be dealt. They wont have him in Rock w $100k or buried cost. Just my bet on what happens to him.
- Cmonalready

For what they just gave Carolina, and what they got back, Rundblad should have been included.

I don't see them trading AA, as Panarin needs that culture/language comfort zone until he fully grasps and is comfortable with the English language and American culture. Not that you were advocating trading AA, but I saw it elsewhere.

Shaw doesn't get me "hard" but he's their most versatile player, next to Hossa, and I think a 3 year deal works both ways. Hoawks aren't tied LT to a guy who could be injury prone, and if Shaw continues to succeed he cashes in again at 27.
- SteveRain

They may not deal AA but I don't think the comfort thing will come into play at this point. In the beginning they surrounded AP with a couple of guys, they will have a translator and at some point guys learned more when they have to use the language.

To be clear on my point-AA is a big salary that can be moved easier than Crawford, and his replacement in some fashion can be on the roster now as well.

>If the market is flooded with goalies with big contracts, having Shaw's rights in your pocket is something the other GMs do not have
>Not saying -- trade Shaw's rights -- just pointing out a scenario that could happen
>And if you can move CC for a high #1 with no salary coming back -- do it immediately
>It appears the cap will be stagnant for quite some time
- SnapitUpstairs

Why would you trade Shaw's rights, unless you feel they don't want him bacK??

Well said as always, and agree on Darling.

I know recapture is always lurking, but after this year, Hossa cap hit of 5.275 but only a salary of 1 million. A wink-wink where do you want to go and not retire on us could happen....especially out east. As Hossa's production goes down, and while his 200 ft game is incredible and his mentoring is important, ROI has to be looked at.

Not saying it will happen, but wouldn't shock me.
- SteveRain

>You were on the cap troubles over a year ago
>The NHL is kidding themselves if they think doing what they've always done -- meaning the current CBA -- will get the league where it needs to go
>If these guys were smart, they'd already be having meetings on restructuring the CBA, and have a presentation to the NHLPA to review sometime in 2017
>NHL is dying a slow death by very poor league management and leadership

I wouldn't mind Jordie Benn to slot is an the 6th defenseman.
- DarthKane

Indeed!!!!

Why would you trade Shaw's rights, unless you feel they don't want him bacK??
- Al

>Love Shaw
>Do not want to trade his rights or him
>Was merely thinking about what the Hawks do have that other teams with big $ goalies do not have

No...i was incorect mia culpa

Feeding the imaginary scenarios to the herd:
Possible
Hawks pay by way of prospects for M-A Fleury to save $250,000. This is an adequate workload former team starter.
Stan says. “The idea is do get Darling more experience and Marc-Andre as adequate partner.”
Improbable
Fleury wants to play, not share, so even if the idea is to further groom Darling and have Fleury as the expansion fodder, how does this actually help?

Now lets go at the other end of the contract rolls

Possible
Hawks pay by way of lesser prospects for Michal Neuvirth to save $4.375 million. Stan says. “The idea is do get Darling more experience and since Michal has averaged 18 starts in the last fives seasons and we will attempt to hand the 62 other games to Scott as an audition for being our playoff goalie, but we also know Neuvirth has played in parts of twelve Stanley playoff games and has won six of them.”
Improbable
Why would the Flyers trade the affordable Nervirth? To throw one of their goalie prospects, Anthony Stolarz, Felix Sandstorm, or Matej Tomek into the fire???
It is a known fact now that Mason has always wanted to be the guy and carry the heavy work load-now that Ray Emery’s contract is off the books that gives him the opportunity and Neuvirth may play his way into more matches, but it begs the question: Isn’t this a move that more probably sends the Flyers backward than forward?

That’s two.

I could do this all day.

Find me Crawford lite, because I can’t find one, or fathom the coaching staffs finding comfort in such moves unless the rebuild is on.

I wouldn't mind Jordie Benn to slot is an the 6th defenseman.
- DarthKane

I'd really like the other Benn too. He's good. But totally on board Jordie Benn.

>Love Shaw
>Do not want to trade his rights or him
>Was merely thinking about what the Hawks do have that other teams with big $ goalies do not have
- SnapitUpstairs

I posted my thoughts earlier...

Hawks are in control of Shaw unless he gets an offer sheet for $3.6 or more..If so, say bye and take the 1st and 3rd.

Having Shaw's rights don't help you move Crawford without holding back salary....Too much money being swallowed by one club...$9-$10 mill in cap space needed for both.

Good comments Snap. There's little doubt in my mind that another significant move or two is coming this off-season.
- grinder10

>Would never ever rely on the NHL for the cap forecast
>With the cap being so heavily influenced by the Canadian dollar and oil prices, would have people on my payroll giving me the "futures forecast" on each
>Hawks have been screwed by listening to Bettman too often

I posted my thoughts earlier...

Hawks are in control of Shaw unless he gets an offer sheet for $3.6 or more..If so, say bye and take the 1st and 3rd.

Having Shaw's rights don't help you move Crawford without holding back salary....Too much money being swallowed by one club...$9-$10 mill in cap space needed for both.
- Al

>What about Toronto or Edmonton?
>Possible?
>If not, then the scenario will play out as you outlined before

>You were on the cap troubles over a year ago
>The NHL is kidding themselves if they think doing what they've always done -- meaning the current CBA -- will get the league where it needs to go
>If these guys were smart, they'd already be having meetings on restructuring the CBA, and have a presentation to the NHLPA to review sometime in 2017
>NHL is dying a slow death by very poor league management and leadership
- SnapitUpstairs

Thanks, my points don't always come across rosey, but try not to be too much of a pessimistic poster as some may imply. Just as you, see the cap being stagnant and relying on PA to keep invoking escalator to move it up which will cause an uproar come next CBA negotiatons. I also think large market teams will lean heavily on the small market teams after the small market teasm pretty much "won" this time around.

I am with you100% on CC. I'd hate to give him up but taking no salary back, getting a 1st, free cap space and from a team depth chart outlook, it's the only position Ican see where a high salaried guy gets moved NOW.

Like Saad, I think the media is taking Shaw coming back as "a sure thing" hook line and sinker. Have to think his camp is looking at high 3s or over 4. Question is can Bowman get that number down on a shorter term deal to allow the carrot of cashing in again enough for Shaw?

Have always wondered if the "core" is too big. Seems like after '10, they never have the depth. Core can't be 12 guys, but it has been for the hawks.

When LA has won, they have a smaller core and guys who came in on ELCs and really contributed, same with Pitt this year.

If you are going to have the two highest paid guys in the league, they have to be the best 2 guys in the league. The number of guys in the core is getting reduced every year. The remaining core guys have to be great. I would argue that only Kane was great this year, you could argue Panarin also. Rest of the core had their cumulative worst years in the last 5. They either have to improve, maybe rest is what they needed, or you have to start changing the core.

Agree, tough summer for Stan.
- vabeachbear

I wonder if the Hawks are still "apologizing" for letting all the talent go in the 90's. Meaning, Rocky is hinting to the FO to keep the core, so we don't have the talent exodus. Roenick, Belfour, Chelios, etc.... So, now they've tipped the opposite way and gone TOO FAR locking up a core?

Just a thought.