Lappy.

I will give Mullen the benefit of the doubt after many years of success. Season averages and shot generation were OK, but the unit has become laughably old. It was down the stretch and playoffs that concerned me. The book is out how to shut them down. But he needs to overhaul it. And maybe he can. To be fair, it's been an amazing PP for a long time and that was something new.

Lappy has 2 years of poor personnel decisions and awful strategy with no long track record to boast of. Yes, the personnel could improve, but a good PK unit isn't rocket science. I hate how he strategizes it with his ultra passiveness shot blocking.
- Mononoke

theres nothing wrong with shot blocking, but i agree. blocking has to be something individual players do in the moment when its there, not part of a scheme to just sit back and try to play goalie from 40 feet out.

i still think the best way to go is an aggressive PK with speed up top pressuring the points. it may suck on the chances they beat you and get down low, but overall, i think it will stop more than it allows if you have the personnel to do it.

Why was Raffl not utilized on the PK. The Austrian army knife that he supposedly is...
- Just5

I always found that to be a strange decision. But I guess it was because he shot left and they wanted a right hand shot out there. So they used White in that spot that was available.

I'm only speculating.


edit: I misread what you wrote as PP.

I have NO IDEA why they didnt use Raffl on the PK

i feel like he could be a decent PK guy. has some speed. could pressure the points and rebound to get in lanes.
- stayinthefnnet

long reach and extremely intelligent, also good factors.

theres nothing wrong with shot blocking, but i agree. blocking has to be something individual players do in the moment when its there, not part of a scheme to just sit back and try to play goalie from 40 feet out.

i still think the best way to go is an aggressive PK with speed up top pressuring the points. it may suck on the chances they beat you and get down low, but overall, i think it will stop more than it allows if you have the personnel to do it.
- stayinthefnnet

You saw a microcosm of this during the Caps/Flyers series. They were passive and in a tight box and getting torched. But when they started aggressively pressuring the puck their success increased dramatically. But by then it was too late.

We are totally seeing another full season of VDV-PEB-White, aren't we?

I'm not even sure how you bring Lappy back after the PK from the last two years and after the series against Washington, where you literally let Nicklas Freaking Backstrom and John Carlson play catch on the kill for three games

They weren't gonna win that series but they sure as hell didn't do themselves any favors with their PK alignment, and that's on the coaching staff

theres nothing wrong with shot blocking, but i agree. blocking has to be something individual players do in the moment when its there, not part of a scheme to just sit back and try to play goalie from 40 feet out.

i still think the best way to go is an aggressive PK with speed up top pressuring the points. it may suck on the chances they beat you and get down low, but overall, i think it will stop more than it allows if you have the personnel to do it.
- stayinthefnnet

Agree 100%

We are totally seeing another full season of VDV-PEB-White, aren't we?


- Mononoke

Nah. There's gonna be some guys available with the tight cap that are upgrades. I'm not saying all three are gone, but I'd be pretty damn surprised if all three are back

You saw a microcosm of this during the Caps/Flyers series. They were passive and in a tight box and getting torched. But when they started aggressively pressuring the puck their success increased dramatically. But by then it was too late.
- MBFlyerfan

exactly. if you are just standing there hoping to get in the way, good teams will pick you apart. they have the extra man, and can whip the puck around to find him. that, and just some shooters are good enough to get around you.

if you pressure the man with the puck and disrupt lanes, it becomes harder. its all about making the other team have to make decisions faster, get passes off faster, receive them faster. all have a greater chance of producing a mistake, by even a few inches, that can then be cleared.

We are totally seeing another full season of VDV-PEB-White, aren't we?


- Mononoke

Why not? It's not like we're winning the cup so roll with it.

Why not? It's not like we're winning the cup so roll with it.
- 2Real

The ghost tank again. This time we actually have a ghost tho.

If Laughton were traded I'd much rather it'd be for a pick or to move up with a pick than to coerce someone into taking Umberger to avoid a buyout.

Not sure I would trade Laughton right now anyway. Our left side is just too damn weak.
- hereticpride

I wouldn't trade Laughton for a pick because we would be starting from square one. Laughton is a former first rounder. What type of pick should we expect in return? I would make deal for a young guy with high upside who is not working out elsewhere.

The ghost tank again. This time we actually have a ghost tho.
- hereticpride

keep it simple you know what you're getting from those players and work with the younger guys to coach them and get them ready for 2-3 years when we should be serious contenders

Nah. There's gonna be some guys available with the tight cap that are upgrades. I'm not saying all three are gone, but I'd be pretty damn surprised if all three are back
- AllInForFlyers

I just am feeling some strong loyal-to-a-fault vibes coming from Hexy and Hak

i would definitely love to have fleury around, because regardless of murrays success, fleury can still get it done in this league and you can never have enough goalie depth. if it wasnt for fleury being a hero for hte first half of the season the pens never make the postseason.

but i just worry about the deadline hitting and everyone closing up shop on them and not being able to move him at all. basically im just not willing to risk losing murray for nothing in any scenario.

i honestly dont even expect a lot back for fleury now. if calgary sent over the pair of their last 2 second rounders i'd do a backflip. at the end of the day i'd even settle for just one. it sucks. but thats the way the cookie is crumbling with this expansion draft.
- stayinthefnnet

you could trade Murray for the #6 pick to the FLames

idk, just throwing out alternatives to getting a crappy return for MAF

We are totally seeing another full season of VDV-PEB-White, aren't we?


- Mononoke

maybe

I doubt they are going to give White 1.8-2M so he may be gone

you could trade Murray for the #6 pick to the FLames

idk, just throwing out alternatives to getting a crappy return for MAF
- Marc D

at a certain point, the cap room is a big part of it too. kid might not be all world, but i think he'll at least be average, for a ridiculously cheap deal for the next few years. that will be big.

well then you switch up ur strategy on the pp, u dont just plug in a guy cause he fits the handedness you need. our pp was stagnant all around last year, putting someone for this reason does not justify it. its not a coach putting his players in the best position to succeed.

or hes a crazy thought, have coots on the other half wall and reverse the entire umbrella. have a rh shot on the dots that coots can feed like G to schenn, maybe laughton goes there. couldve had gagner on the other half wall, and streit up top, or MDZ this year hopefully, maybe even Provy if he makes it, and put a guy like raffl there. or use cousins in the dots and put laughts in front of the net.

my point is that a guy who is offensively challenged should not be on the pp unit where offense is most definitely needed, and with our team inept at scoring, wouldnt it make sense to get as much offense on the pp unit, albeit if it works, not just forcing offensive guys out there. didnt cousins and laughton play on the same line a lot, and gagner? that would work for me
- sjk540

I don't think the Flyers are under illusions that White should be a regular PP player. In the situation with the players that they had, White was the best choice for that spot. Have to look more deeper than just throwing players out there. The obvious answer is that the Flyers need to upgrade their talent in certain areas. I was simply pointing out that Laughton replacing White wouldn't have worked in that situation.

im not anointing him as the next carey price or anything. but i think the odds are very good that he is at least a league average goaltender with the potential for more. its not as if he totally came from no where. he was easily the AHL's best goaltender for a big sample size. not necessarily saying that is dispositive, but overall i am comfortable in projecting him to at least be average. whether he capitalizes on his potential to be more remains to be seen, but its still there.

if there was no expansion draft, i'd be right there with you. then when you add in the cap factor, its hard. there is risk in both paths. risks if they trade fleury, for the reasons you stated. and risk if they sit on their hands and ride out both until they are eventually forced into a move.

moving fleury now allows the team to be proactive and make a decision without having one made for them, largely solves any cap issue (which if they don't move fleury, looms as an issue) and can hopefully add even a minimal bit of assets into the coffer.
- stayinthefnnet

I hear ya. They're in a tough spot.

I don't think the Flyers are under illusions that White should be a regular PP player. In the situation with the players that they had, White was the best choice for that spot. Have to look more deeper than just throwing players out there. The obvious answer is that the Flyers need to upgrade their talent in certain areas. I was simply pointing out that Laughton replacing White wouldn't have worked in that situation.
- MJL

yea i gotcha. i was saying that inserting laughton would obviously call for changes on a higher level, it just got so easy to defend, but they kept rolling it out. thought i, along with the whole delaware valley, was taking crazy pills.

either way, hopefully they get it tightened up next year, looking for big improvements from the special teams to now get up to even strength.

never thought id say that.

i feel like he could be a decent PK guy. has some speed. could pressure the points and rebound to get in lanes.
- stayinthefnnet

How was your foray into Woodbury yesterday?

maybe

I doubt they are going to give White 1.8-2M so he may be gone
- Marc D

I don't think he'd ask for that much or any team would give it. You never know though...."truculence." The Carlyle is back and he needs some reaaaaal bad.

Unless he is signed as the 13, I don't want him back period. This team could do so much better in-house. And his end of the year quotes saying he would take a pay cut to stay here because he likes playing a lot of minutes and playing on PP and PK....that straight up scares me.

I don't buy the there is a book out on the Flyers PP on how to play it angle for a second. That is the same for every single team. Every team has advanced scouting, and strategies devised on how to play against a team on the PP. I agree that I'd like to see some adjustments made, and add some new wrinkles to it, but the biggest problem was simply about execution. Voracek especially struggled and was hesitant on making plays, making it easier for teams to attack the other side of the ice. Quick puck movement and good decision making, counters aggressive penalty killing.

What have I missed?

How was your foray into Woodbury yesterday?
- jmatchett383

honestly not that bad. granted, i didnt go exploring, but the place didnt seem as camden-esque as you guys were describing.

and the place itself was fairly accessible. so all in all, no complaints. other than having to pay 60 bucks to place my hand on a scanner. they could at least make it shaped like a strippers ass or something for that price