(frank) jon cooper.

but yeah. ridiculous. JT browns actually a pretty good fourth line guy. but drouin was making things happen all series.

i'm right there with you. if they let stamkos walk, so be it. might be better in the long run. move bishop for whatever they can and recoup assets there.

still have drouin, kucherov, johnson, palat all young and improving. hedman will always give you a chance to put together a good defense. and vasey is a stud. its not like he exactly came out of no where either, so its not likely to be some scott darling nonsense either.
- stayinthefnnet

Ha! Sorry; that was me being sarcastic on the Cooper quote; he didn't say that. I'm just saying what he's always thinking

tanky tank tank
- -davies-

Oh yeah.

that series is actually making me pay attention to the nba a little bit
- stayinthefnnet

the series until tonight has been pretty poopty

Drouin hasn't proved he is an NHL player. I wouldn't trade Hagg for him. His mother was also a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries.
- Mononoke

Jon Cooper farts in his general direction.

Oh yeah.
- wolfhounds

don't forget go bankrupt

Ha! Sorry; that was me being sarcastic on the Cooper quote; he didn't say that. I'm just saying what he's always thinking
- AllInForFlyers

no i totally understand. but really, that kid is dynamic. i thought he was more of a passer, but he has a goal scorers mentality and touch too. just so deadly in space.

i think they may have lucked out big time by not sending him packing

the series until tonight has been pretty poopty
- 2Real

as far as being riveting games, yeah, i agree. still somewhat intriguing to see the warriors on the ropes.

do you think they can come back?

Easy. Tank and draft 1st, 2nd, 1st 3 years in a row. Done.

Oops, forgot Staal.
- wolfhounds

I know you're Anti-Pens Fan #1, but that isn't true for the team right now making the Cup. They have been in a rut the last few years, and almost 1/3 through the season they were looked at as a potential bottom 10 team....all with those same core players they got for tanking. So what is different NOW? Right now. We were laughing at their mediocrity and closing window not a handful of months ago.

They have built this team through an emphasis on speed, skill, and more speed, with aggressive swarming tactics and a puck moving backend. It could be easily argued that Crosby and Malkin have been disappointing this playoffs actually. Their recipe right now, much like Tampa's, is worthy of study and emulation.

don't forget go bankrupt
- -davies-

Oh yeah. Seriously, what's not to like about the Pens?

(frank) jon cooper.

but yeah. ridiculous. JT browns actually a pretty good fourth line guy. but drouin was making things happen all series.

i'm right there with you. if they let stamkos walk, so be it. might be better in the long run. move bishop for whatever they can and recoup assets there.

still have drouin, kucherov, johnson, palat all young and improving. hedman will always give you a chance to put together a good defense. and vasey is a stud. its not like he exactly came out of no where either, so its not likely to be some scott darling nonsense either.
- stayinthefnnet

They need to seriously think about what Val Filippula is right now -- I haven't looked at the numbers, but the eye test said he might be a problem

In a roundabout way, I'm saying this: I'm not sure, over the course of 82 games, that not having Steven Stamkos is gonna go the way they think it might, and they might want to consider paying him

From what I saw, Johnson, Filippula, Namestnikov and Boyle...that might not be enough

tanky tank tank
- -davies-

They need to seriously think about what Val Filippula is right now -- I haven't looked at the numbers, but the eye test said he might be a problem

In a roundabout way, I'm saying this: I'm not sure, over the course of 82 games, that not having Steven Stamkos is gonna go the way they think it might, and they might want to consider paying him

From what I saw, Johnson, Filippula, Namestnikov and Boyle...that might not be enough
- AllInForFlyers

i dont know exactly how all of their contracts are staggered. but to me, the big key to make sure he doesnt get away is hedman.

as far as stamkos goes, i mean i wouldnt just snap the purse shut before they even talk and just say nah dude kick rocks. but i just dont know if they can realistically compete if a team decides to drop 10.5 to 11 mil on him.

i dont know exactly how all of their contracts are staggered. but to me, the big key to make sure he doesnt get away is hedman.

as far as stamkos goes, i mean i wouldnt just snap the purse shut before they even talk and just say nah dude kick rocks. but i just dont know if they can realistically compete if a team decides to drop 10.5 to 11 mil on him.
- stayinthefnnet

Hedman was a monster tonight, an absolute beast

I know Yzerman was looking for a mobile defender in any trade for Drouin, and he might need to look harder -- Slater Koekkoek is young and certainly couldn't be expected to play a large role, but if I was Tampa management, I'd be concerned about his turn-and-go and ability to read the play in his own zone

Of their defense this series, I only liked Hedman and Stralman. Garrison wasn't a tire fire but he and Coburn weren't part of the solution, either

as far as being riveting games, yeah, i agree. still somewhat intriguing to see the warriors on the ropes.

do you think they can come back?
- stayinthefnnet

if they win in OKC they will win the series

Hedman was a monster tonight, an absolute beast

I know Yzerman was looking for a mobile defender in any trade for Drouin, and he might need to look harder -- Slater Koekkoek is young and certainly couldn't be expected to play a large role, but if I was Tampa management, I'd be concerned about his turn-and-go and ability to read the play in his own zone

Of their defense this series, I only liked Hedman and Stralman. Garrison wasn't a tire fire but he and Coburn weren't part of the solution, either
- AllInForFlyers

I think the top Tampa forwards can match up with Pittsburgh (though they could improve their bottom 6). Letang and Hedman cancel out more or less, each a legit 1D, though Hedman is still better. Stralman is terrific too, but he wasn't exactly healthy. I think it's Tampa's back end that let them down the most. There's a reason they kept going 7D....too many not fleet of foot, questionable puck movers. Pitt doesn't have great depth, but they have the right depth in D. They can skate and move the puck.

I know you're Anti-Pens Fan #1, but that isn't true for the team right now making the Cup. They have been in a rut the last few years, and almost 1/3 through the season they were looked at as a potential bottom 10 team....all with those same core players they got for tanking. They have built this team through an emphasis on speed, skill, and more speed, with aggressive swarming tactics. It could be easily argued that Crosby and Malkin have been disappointing this playoffs actually.

Their recipe right now, much like Tampa's, is worthy of study and emulation.
- Mononoke

Definitely anti Pens. Because of tanking. Twice. But to your point about being like the Pens and their recipe, one can't ignore 3 #1 and a #2 pick 4 years in a row. And 2 of those picks could be argued to be generational, then you add in a pretty good goalie (kept them in the playoff hunt when the team wasn't playing well this season), and a solid 2nd/3rd line center who got traded for a pretty good haul...

Staal was traded to the Carolina Hurricanes in exchange for Brandon Sutter, Brian Dumoulin and the Hurricanes' eighth overall selection at the 2012 NHL Entry Draft (which the Penguins used to select Derrick Pouliot) on June 22, 2012.

And now they have Kessel, a former #5 pick. Oh, and Letang's not too shabby. Murray is impressive, no denying that. Expecting anything less than a deep run from a team as stacked as the Pens is absurd.

Hedman was a monster tonight, an absolute beast

I know Yzerman was looking for a mobile defender in any trade for Drouin, and he might need to look harder -- Slater Koekkoek is young and certainly couldn't be expected to play a large role, but if I was Tampa management, I'd be concerned about his turn-and-go and ability to read the play in his own zone

Of their defense this series, I only liked Hedman and Stralman. Garrison wasn't a tire fire but he and Coburn weren't part of the solution, either
- AllInForFlyers

gasp. no mention of matt carle?

but yeah. they need another puck mover. but that could be said about a lot of teams.

I think the top Tampa forwards can match up with Pittsburgh (though they could improve their bottom 6). Letang and Hedman cancel out more or less, each a legit 1D, though Hedman is still better. Stralman is terrific too, but he wasn't exactly healthy. I think it's Tampa's back end that let them down the most. There's a reason they kept going 7D....too many not fleet of foot, questionable puck movers. Pitt doesn't have great depth, but they have the right depth in D. They can skate and move the puck.
- Mononoke

yeah. i think TBs forwards played fairly well. when they had it in the zone, they were dangerous. they scored most of their goals with a forward lugging it all the way up on the rush.

acquiring those types of guys arent easy, but good puck movers would help them. i know he has his warts, but yandle is really one of the only guys that come to mind.

id also be looking to call up dallas and deal them a goalie.

I think the top Tampa forwards can match up with Pittsburgh (though they could improve their bottom 6). Letang and Hedman cancel out more or less, each a legit 1D, though Hedman is still better. Stralman is terrific too, but he wasn't exactly healthy. I think it's Tampa's back end that let them down the most. There's a reason they kept going 7D....too many not fleet of foot, questionable puck movers. Pitt doesn't have great depth, but they have the right depth in D. They can skate and move the puck.
- Mononoke

I'd agree with that; Tampa was just leaking shots and chances when Hedman was on the bench

The Lightning are pretty fortunate, though. They have some chips to play in getting another guy back there

Definitely anti Pens. Because of tanking. Twice. But to your point about being like the Pens and their recipe, one can't ignore 3 #1 and a #2 pick 4 years in a row. And 2 of those picks could be argued to be generational, then you add in a pretty good goalie (kept them in the playoff hunt when the team wasn't playing well this season), and a solid 2nd/3rd line center who got traded for a pretty good haul...



And now they have Kessel, a former #5 pick. Oh, and Letang's not too shabby. Murray is impressive, no denying that. Expecting anything less than a deep run from a team as stacked as the Pens is absurd.
- wolfhounds

I mean there's a reason they morphed into a powerhouse again after being perennial choke artists and disappointments for the last several years. It wasn't magic left over from drafts in the mid-2000s. Crosby and Malkin and Letang were on those teams and they underperformed. They used to be expected to go deep and couldn't. Now they were considered the brunt of jokes recently but are a Cup contender.

It's because they have changed the rest of their team. We had 2 top 10 scorers and a top 10 d man scorer last year with equally or better goal tending and finished 7th worst. It's what is around them that truly makes the difference. Penguins changed that.

I mean there's a reason they morphed into a powerhouse again after being perennial choke artists and disappointments for the last several years. It wasn't magic left over from drafts in the mid-2000s. Crosby and Malkin and Letang were on those teams and they underperformed. They used to be expected to go deep and couldn't. Now they were considered the brunt of jokes recently but are a Cup contender.

It's because they have changed the rest of their team. We had 2 top 10 scorers and a top 10 d man scorer last year with equally or better goal tending and finished 7th worst. It's what is around them that truly makes the difference. Penguins changed that.
- Mononoke

changing the mindset from (frank) YES i'll trade you a pair of seconds for douglas murray is a good start.

I mean there's a reason they morphed into a powerhouse again after being perennial choke artists and disappointments for the last several years. It wasn't magic left over from drafts in the mid-2000s. Crosby and Malkin and Letang were on those teams and they underperformed. They used to be expected to go deep and couldn't. Now they were considered the brunt of jokes recently but are a Cup contender.

It's because they have changed the rest of their team. We had 2 top 10 scorers and a top 10 d man scorer last year with equally or better goal tending and finished 7th worst. It's what is around them that truly makes the difference. Penguins changed that.
- Mononoke

They made some good trades that really clicked for their team this season, no denying that. It's a solid squad. And fast. And they've been fortunate, with Murray, and getting production from guys like Rust and Bonino, Hagelin and Cullen. Lightning in a bottle they just need to last 1 more series.

C'mon Sharks!

I mean there's a reason they morphed into a powerhouse again after being perennial choke artists and disappointments for the last several years. It wasn't magic left over from drafts in the mid-2000s. Crosby and Malkin and Letang were on those teams and they underperformed. They used to be expected to go deep and couldn't. Now they were considered the brunt of jokes recently but are a Cup contender.

It's because they have changed the rest of their team. We had 2 top 10 scorers and a top 10 d man scorer last year with equally or better goal tending and finished 7th worst. It's what is around them that truly makes the difference. Penguins changed that.
- Mononoke

Keep banging that drum. People have to understand that we're not killing guys like VDV and Ryan White

I said it earlier: You can respect them as players yet still understand they need to be upgraded

Keep banging that drum. People have to understand that we're not killing guys like VDV and Ryan White

I said it earlier: You can respect them as players yet still understand they need to be upgraded
- AllInForFlyers

I don't know who would argue against that, but when a team is clicking, it seems everybody is producing. Look at Cullen.

changing the mindset from (frank) YES i'll trade you a pair of seconds for douglas murray is a good start.
- stayinthefnnet

Rutherford reminds me of Snow on the Islanders. Looks like a moron and all his GMing is a disaster...then suddenly everything breaks their way at once. I am skeptical it was genius plays on his part haha, but sometimes these things happen. Doug Wilson in San Jose is another one, and now he's being hailed as brilliant.

But Kessel trade, Hagelin swap, utilization of good AHL depth guys, Sullivan hire, Daley trade....still think he stumbled his way into it but so be it. But the new on-ice philosophy and the players who implement said philosophy are why this team is where it's at. That's the variable between this year and the last few where we giggled away as they flamed out.