It's not a matter of semantics when you use an analogy that isn't meaningful or appropriate to your argument. Apparently it's easier just to insult people who actually understand the concept of a coin toss than concede that it maybe wasn't a great choice of analogies.
- khawk

Good luck with that one...

I would counter that point saying that no other team had as impactful injuries last year as Edmonton, as we never had our entire core together FOR A SINGLE GAME last year.
- 6ringslowe

It's still a weak argument, and the lightening are living breathing proof. They've been missing their #1 offensive player and one of their top defensive players since March. Not only did they still make the playoffs, but they're still winning, and against the best teams while missing multiple top guys.

So you had McDavid out, the fact that you didn't immediately start winning more games once he came back should be all the evidence you need to draw the conclusion that there are larger issues at play.

If you keep having the same guys injured, that's a whole different discussion because then you have to decide if (even though they have talent)if they're just not worth the roster spot due to a lack of durability.

It's not a matter of semantics when you use an analogy that isn't meaningful or appropriate to your argument. Apparently it's easier just to insult people who actually understand the concept of a coin toss than concede that it maybe wasn't a great choice of analogies.
- khawk

I find that Tanner's analogies are like a box of Girl Guide cookies: the vanilla ones always get eaten first.

It's still a weak argument, and the lightening are living breathing proof. They've been missing their #1 offensive player and one of their top defensive players since March. Not only did they still make the playoffs, but they're still winning, and against the best teams while missing multiple top guys.

So you had McDavid out, the fact that you didn't immediately start winning more games once he came back should be all the evidence you need to draw the conclusion that there are larger issues at play.

If you keep having the same guys injured, that's a whole different discussion because then you have to decide if (even though they have talent)if they're just not worth the roster spot due to a lack of durability.
- nikel

I don't think it's entirely fair to compare a proven winning team with experience to one who needed everything to go right just to gain back some semblance of confidence and get over the hump.
In fact it's pretty much apple and oranges.

And losing mcdavid, nuge, ebs, klefbom, yaks, pouliot, Davidson and evrn gryba all for extended periods (and all obviously simultaneously as we're talking long term injuries overlapping) isn't really an excuse. It's fact and near impossible to overcome

I do think the problems are deeper and there's far more to it than just health. But to minimize the degree those injuries hurt while comparing them to the lightning (different situation AND not as detrimental) is a weak correlation

I find that Tanner's analogies are like a box of Girl Guide cookies: the vanilla ones always get eaten first.
- Atomic Wedgie

I think he flips a coin and has been eating the plastic wrapper for several years.

But hey maybe next year he'll actually eat the cookie...because you know it has to happen sooner or later

Ah yes, Oilers will dominate next year, for all the same reasons you guaranteed they would make playoffs and dominate last year. You're like a 5 year old sitting at a red light telling their parent the light will turn green every second 45 times in a row; who will then preen like you were someone smarter than others when it finally happens.

And I love how you don't believe science applies to professional athletes when it comes to psychology, for no reason other than you don't want it to.

I don't hunk it's entirely fair to compare a proven winning team with experience to one who needed everything to go right just to gain back some semblance of confidence and get over the hump.
In fact it's pretty much apple and oranges.

And losing mcdavid, nuge, ebs, klefbom, yaks, pouliot, Davidson and evrn gryba all for extended periods (and all obviously simultaneously as we're talking long term injuries overlapping) isn't really an excuse. It's fact and near impossible to overcome

I do think the problems are deeper and there's far more to it than just health. But to minimize the degree those injuries jury while comparing them to the lightning (different situation AND not as detrimental) is a false comparison
- HB77

Not an unreasonable statement, but remember that the original comment was in response to Tanner's ridiculousness that if not for those injuries the Oilers would be a premier team in the league and near the top of the standings.
As someone else pointed out, once McD (and others) returned to the line-up near the end of the year, they didn't win much more than previously. And I will take a step further to say that they actually managed to lose some games that they had well in hand. THAT is the mark of a team that is near the top of the league. They know what it takes to pull out a win, whether it's in a blow out or a close game. This is why it takes defense. And as is, Edmonton just doesn't have it.

Not an unreasonable statement, but remember that the original comment was in response to Tanner's ridiculousness that if not for those injuries the Oilers would be a premier team in the league and near the top of the standings.
As someone else pointed out, once McD (and others) returned to the line-up near the end of the year, they didn't win much more than previously. And I will take a step further to say that they actually managed to lose some games that they had well in hand. THAT is the mark of a team that is near the top of the league. They know what it takes to pull out a win, whether it's in a blow out or a close game. This is why it takes defense. And as is, Edmonton just doesn't have it.
- Tonybere

Fair

I woulda never assumed that the oilers coulda been contenders this year. A bubble team Battling for 8th is what I would've considered a success

I don't share tanners unbridled optimism because I've watched the problems that run deeper than the tangible stuff manifest over years of bottom feeding.
but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that those injuries crippled a team that was desperate for everything to go right to take the next step

And I believe some success in the first 10-20 games this upcoming season is vital as well or it could snowball again. It's a fragile team.

Fair

I woulda never assumed that the oilers coulda been contenders this year. A bubble team Battling for 8th is what I would've considered a success

I don't share tanners unbridled optimism because I've watched the problems that run deeper than the tangible stuff manifest over years of bottom feeding.
but there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that those injuries crippled a team that was desperate for everything to go right to take the next step

And I believe some success in the first 10-20 games this upcoming season is vital as well or it could snowball again. It's a fragile team.
- HB77

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.
- James_Tanner

He's pretty amazing

And as much as I wanna agree, remember that they lost more games than they won with him in the lineup.

Just saying it's such a team game and so many parts need to be working. I fear for the oilers if opposing gms try and lowball chiarelli too much And they make it impossible to make some impactful moves. With or without Connor we could see the same.

But when I was apprehensive to overestimate how good connor was before he ever played in the nhl last summer, you weren't at all. And boy were you ever right. He's so Effin good. One of the best players in the world already

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.
- James_Tanner

Do you have a chart to prove that?

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.
- James_Tanner

Except the Oilers......

Except the Oilers......
- tomburton99

C'mon, Tom... That's pure evil

C'mon, Tom... That's pure evil
- 21peter

I don't mind the Oilers. I mind Tanner telling me year after year, because of excuses a, b, and c. Tanner's act is just tired.

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.
- James_Tanner

He was on a team, and they missed the playoffs. In fact having him in the lineup had almost no effect.

17-25-3 with
14-18-5 without

He was on a team, and they missed the playoffs. In fact having him in the lineup had almost no effect.

17-25-3 with
14-18-5 without
- Quicky72

This is almost like Karlsson makes the Senators the best team in the league when he's on the ice.

It's always good players on bad teams people make outrageous statements about. Jake Gardiner would be as good as Josi, Shattenkirk etc. If he were on a good team

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.
- James_Tanner

I don't believe anyone is ignoring how good he is. He is AMAZING. I am pulling for the kid, AND the Oilers. But they haven't gone about it the right way, and until they do they don't deserve it.
And you could put McDavid on any team and have him get injured, too. So, don't go spouting that just because he has talent they are the cock of the walk.

This is almost like Karlsson makes the Senators the best team in the league when he's on the ice.

It's always good players on bad teams people make outrageous statements about. Jake Gardiner would be as good as Josi, Shattenkirk etc. If he were on a good team
- sbroads24

It's all about process, the results don't matter. Just keep repeating and you'll eventually feel better.

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.
- James_Tanner

So McDavid helped Edmonton win 17 out of 45 games he played.

That just doesn't equate to a playoff team.

We know how good he is, but it's a team game.

I don't mind the Oilers. I mind Tanner telling me year after year, because of excuses a, b, and c. Tanner's act is just tired.
- tomburton99

Tanner for the Pulitzer

Everyone ignores how good McDavid is. You could put him on any team and have a playoff team.
- James_Tanner

Apparently not.

Edmonton with McDavid in the lineup:

16-27-2

Edmonton without McDavid in the lineup:

15-16-6

(Edit: some other numbers were listed above from other posters so I may have incorrectly calculated, but you get the idea)

Ironically, it would appear that Edmonton played better with McDavid out of the lineup but still weren't a playoff bound team.

Having said that, I do believe Edmonton are a couple of pieces away from being a legitimate playoff contender. Adding Yandle and another d-man to the equation would be a great start. Not Cup worthy but I could see them fighting for the 7th-8th spot.

Subban would actually be an interesting acquisition. If the Oil could package up their #4 pick, RNH or Draisaitl and other assets you may have the framework for a mutually beneficial deal.

Apparently not.

Edmonton with McDavid in the lineup:

16-27-2

Edmonton without McDavid in the lineup:

15-16-6

(Edit: some other numbers were listed above from other posters so I may have incorrectly calculated, but you get the idea)

Ironically, it would appear that Edmonton played better with McDavid out of the lineup but still weren't a playoff bound team.

Having said that, I do believe Edmonton are a couple of pieces away from being a legitimate playoff contender. Adding Yandle and another d-man to the equation would be a great start. Not Cup worthy but I could see them fighting for the 7th-8th spot.

Subban would actually be an interesting acquisition. If the Oil could package up their #4 pick, RNH or Draisaitl and other assets you may have the framework for a mutually beneficial deal.
- mjones242

Horrible factor to consider. Klefbom should be the factor that must be considered. His injury is the main cause of those numbers. Once Klefbom got injured, Hall, Eberle, LD, and Talbot's performances declined at a notable rate.

This was discussed in the Oiler forums a couple months ago.

I don't believe anyone is ignoring how good he is. He is AMAZING. I am pulling for the kid, AND the Oilers. But they haven't gone about it the right way, and until they do they don't deserve it.
And you could put McDavid on any team and have him get injured, too. So, don't go spouting that just because he has talent they are the cock of the walk.
- Tonybere

While much of the criticism is reasonable throughout the thread, it's nonsense like this where the discussion goes off the rails.
They don't deserve it? They went about it the wrong way ? Huh?

I can already see all the tired narratives that lack any substance beyond easy answers and false assumptions ...

On another note, I would like to bring up the thought of Edmonton acquiring an interesting and imo, highly underrated defender that is developing quite quickly as of late.

Alexey Marchenko

Right hand, massive frame, excellent shot, great first pass, high hockey IQ. He is noted for his offensive ability, but he is projected as a shutdown defender that can play a 2-way game.

Here is a great read about him.
http://www.freep.com/stor...lexey-marchenko/78427790/

Edmonton and Detroit could definitely strike a deal if he is in play. Detroit needs a center to play along with Larkin to replace Datsyuk and Zetterberg (LW/C) very soon and with 3 quality centers, Edmonton definitely has options, but the deal will not just involve Marchenko. I could see Dekeyser coming our way if Chia pulls some strings.

He was on a team, and they missed the playoffs. In fact having him in the lineup had almost no effect.

17-25-3 with
14-18-5 without
- Quicky72

appreciate that goaltending was horrendous to start the year and Talbot trended on elite starting in December (1 month into 4 month injury), Draisaitl cooled and RNH and Klefbom were injured when he came back.

those are cherry picked with no context