imo Berube's stint with the Flyers was exactly mediocre. He wasn't given a lot to work with, and he didn't elevate them to anything more than the sum of their parts. I wasn't there, but it seemed like he lost the room. Regardless of the exact faults or failures, getting him out was a breath of fresh air. It wasn't a fall on your sword moment to me.

Can he be better in a second go of it in the NHL? Stranger things have happened.

Really bored at work so I need something to pass the time. Who do you all think is more likely to make the team next year, Provorov or Konecny? I'm leaning towards Provorov because he has nothing more to gain by playing in juniors and solely based on what I heard from scouts (I haven't seen anything more than highlights of both players) he may already be better than Manning, AMac, and insert 8th dman here. Konecny may still gain something by playing in juniors another year.

Berube Vs Hakstol

Did either coach have the players they want for their system? Did they have to make due with what they had?

Those are the two biggest questions that have to be addressed for the team to succeed in my opinion and what the Flyers haven't had in many years.

Still believe the Flyers are still at least 3 years away from being a real playoff team then hopefully a contender.

Manning definitely improved at the end. He was playing with Gudas too which will have that effect, but I think he did improve. He is good at NZ d. That's his best attribute. But he may have been "hardy," but he was sloppy in his own zone too. My issue wasn't even that Manning was playing by the end (earlier yes, but there were worse d men than him to scratch hem hem), but that his ceiling was #6. Medvedev could've been the best d man on the ice any given night. That is game breaking ability that was pissed away. He had a very bad period around Christmas, but his "struggles" we're entirely overblown. He was held to a different standard for his mistakes; and all his positives were never recognized duly. They threw the baby out with the vodka.
- Mononoke

Guy did get arrested for DUI
Statistically there is a big correlation with DUI arrest and alcoholism

I hate speculating like this but wonder if this was an issue


I agree with you though, I wanted to see Med play a lot more this year then he did
They needed his skill set badly
I won't knock the coach for going with the lineup he felt he had the best chance to win
As a fan I wanted more Med and less Manning ( or even less Schultz at times, but would have sat Manning before sitting Schultz)

Pavelski's disallowed goal last night was the worst call in NHL history since the last Flyers disallowed goal. Pretty sad when the 1% can control 99% of the goals

Pavelski's disallowed goal last night was the worst call in NHL history since the last Flyers disallowed goal. Pretty sad when the 1% can control 99% of the goals
- 2Real

Pavelski has 29 shots on net and only 6 goals...he sucks, he should have at least 24 goals.

Pavelski has 29 shots on net and only 6 goals...he sucks, he should have at least 24 goals.
- Glak18

7 goals

Manning definitely improved at the end. He was playing with Gudas too which will have that effect, but I think he did improve. He is good at NZ d. That's his best attribute. But he may have been "hardy," but he was sloppy in his own zone too. My issue wasn't even that Manning was playing by the end (earlier yes, but there were worse d men than him to scratch hem hem), but that his ceiling was #6. Medvedev could've been the best d man on the ice any given night. That is game breaking ability that was pissed away. He had a very bad period around Christmas, but his "struggles" we're entirely overblown. He was held to a different standard for his mistakes; and all his positives were never recognized duly. They threw the baby out with the vodka.
- Mononoke

Yup.

If you want to bake a good cake, you need the right ingredients. Berube was handicapped in a lot of ways.
- MJL

Didn't Hak inherit basically the same lineup, minus Coburn?

Okay the new music video for "Daydreaming" by Radiohead is outstanding. The music and Paul Thomas Anderson's direction are just....

Didn't Hak inherit basically the same lineup, minus Coburn?
- Tomahawk

Injured MDZ, injured Jake, injured Couturier, injured Streit -- all missing significant time and all but Coots played noticeably through injuries as well for chunks of time.

Frankly, I think Hak had less to work with this year.

Pavelski's disallowed goal last night was the worst call in NHL history since the last Flyers disallowed goal. Pretty sad when the 1% can control 99% of the goals
- 2Real

I blame the Supreme Court, video replay, and solar power.

Didn't Hak inherit basically the same lineup, minus Coburn?
- Tomahawk

Actually.. probably a worse group..

He played half of a season without Del Zotto (the teams top d-man) and then a month with out Streit.

We lost Jake for a considerable amount of time, Couts as well.

We relied heavily on a few rookies, and had to stomach terrible year by Jake.

I am not liking how this has become a Berube vs Hakstoll debate.

Berube wasnt terrible, but he did have his downfalls. Hak had a heck of a year considering what he had to work with and the amount of injuries we had. Young guys seemed to really take off under him as well.

Injured MDZ, injured Jake, injured Couturier, injured Streit -- all missing significant time and the first two played noticeably through injuries as well for chunks of time.

Frankly, I think Hak had less to work with.
- Mononoke

Yeah, to borrow your analogy from before, I think Hak should consider opening up a lemonade stand.

Frank Seravalli ‏@frank_seravalli now4 seconds ago

Difficult to handicap Caggiula sweepstakes, but sense is it's down to VAN or EDM. Believe PHI, CHI, PIT, NYR and OTT are all out. We'll see.
- PLindbergh31

F him then. It's obvious the kid wants to be handed a spot.

Really bored at work so I need something to pass the time. Who do you all think is more likely to make the team next year, Provorov or Konecny? I'm leaning towards Provorov because he has nothing more to gain by playing in juniors and solely based on what I heard from scouts (I haven't seen anything more than highlights of both players) he may already be better than Manning, AMac, and insert 8th dman here. Konecny may still gain something by playing in juniors another year.
- EducatedOpinion

I'd say Provorov despite playing the position that usually requires more seasoning. With his size and injury history, I think Konecny could actually benefit from an extra year in juniors. But I don't see Provorov having anything else to gain there, he looks NHL-ready. Time for him (or maybe both) to prove it this offseason/preseason.

7 goals
- 2Real

Bump him to the 4th line where he belongs

so VDV and Michael parks couldn't convince the drake to come to philly? wow, shocked.

I blame the Supreme Court, video replay, and solar power.
- wolfhounds

You forgot the Illuminati

Manning definitely improved at the end. He was playing with Gudas too which will have that effect, but I think he did improve. He is good at NZ d. That's his best attribute. But he may have been "hardy," but he was sloppy in his own zone too. My issue wasn't even that Manning was playing by the end (earlier yes, but there were worse d men than him to scratch hem hem), but that his ceiling was #6. Medvedev could've been the best d man on the ice any given night. That is game breaking ability that was pissed away. He had a very bad period around Christmas, but his "struggles" we're entirely overblown. He was held to a different standard for his mistakes; and all his positives were never recognized duly. They threw the baby out with the vodka.
- Mononoke

I agree with this. With so many other offensively gifted players that are new to the NHL they talk about growing pains and oh we will just have to deal with some of that, but for Medvedev it was just always inexcusable. I get why, but the leash was too short in my opinion. It is not as though he had a negative effect on the ice overall.

I think there is something there with being consistent and I can see it helping teammates if they get what they expect from teammates. I am not really arguing that Medvedev shouldn't have been scratched...I really just take issue with the notion that he didnt have the ability to learn or there shouldnt be an adjustment and scratching someone like MDZ was done for his development, but not for Medvedev. They were scratched for generally the same reason, just at different parts of their careers.

Really bored at work so I need something to pass the time. Who do you all think is more likely to make the team next year, Provorov or Konecny? I'm leaning towards Provorov because he has nothing more to gain by playing in juniors and solely based on what I heard from scouts (I haven't seen anything more than highlights of both players) he may already be better than Manning, AMac, and insert 8th dman here. Konecny may still gain something by playing in juniors another year.
- EducatedOpinion

absolutely provorov...and that has just as much to do with him appearing to have developed physically than it does about overall skill. I think both have the skills to play in the NHL but I dont seen Konecny standing up to a full NHL season

Pavelski's disallowed goal last night was the worst call in NHL history since the last Flyers disallowed goal. Pretty sad when the 1% can control 99% of the goals
- 2Real

Thanks Obama!

Yeah, to borrow your analogy from before, I think Hak should consider opening up a lemonade stand.
- Tomahawk

I think Hak definitely had less to work with. I'm pretty sure the 14-15 flyers were a very healthy team minus kimmo of course.

I'm no expert but the 2 biggest things I takeaway from Hak is the changes he implemented in the breakout in using the slot area and center ice like the best teams do. Also the neutral zone defense. I'm thrilled ghost came up under Hak instead of berube

absolutely provorov...and that has just as much to do with him appearing to have developed physically than it does about overall skill. I think both have the skills to play in the NHL but I dont seen Konecny standing up to a full NHL season
- YuenglingJagr

I can't say I followed Konecny too much, but I do know of the injury concerns. Have any of his injuries been of the type that can linger, such as knee or back?

Manning definitely improved at the end. He was playing with Gudas too which will have that effect, but I think he did improve. He is good at NZ d. That's his best attribute. But he may have been "hardy," but he was sloppy in his own zone too. My issue wasn't even that Manning was playing by the end (earlier yes, but there were worse d men than him to scratch hem hem), but that his ceiling was #6. Medvedev could've been the best d man on the ice any given night. That is game breaking ability that was pissed away. He had a very bad period around Christmas, but his "struggles" we're entirely overblown. He was held to a different standard for his mistakes; and all his positives were never recognized duly. They threw the baby out with the vodka.
- Mononoke

I was actually listening to a Nate Duncan podcast the other day (he covers the NBA) and he was talking about why a certain player wasn't playing. He complained for weeks on his podcast about the lack of playing time for Troy Daniels and finally had an opportunity to ask the coach. The coach basically said that he didn't work hard in practice and that others simply deserved to play over him. Now, if the Hornets were a championship contender, it would be pretty stupid to play the worse player, but Daniels is a FA and they're not a contending team so, in his mind, it made sense to play someone else who "earned" the minutes. The head coach of the Hornets is Steve Clifford and he's a very forward thinking coach who pays close attention to analytics. He's one of the top 10 coaches in the NBA IMO.

Basically, what I'm saying is that even the smartest coaches who know the analytics and know the team is better with them on the court/ice still place a premium on hard work in practice because it does matter. It matters in creating a culture and developing a team. I have to believe Medvedev was doing something - not practicing hard, not listening or not understanding the scheme - for Hak to keep benching him. In Hak's mind, he may look at the benchings as something that makes them worse now, but better later.