I think we're saying the same thing. Yes, if Del Zotto was playing the way Berube wanted him to play, he would of never been scratched.
- MJL

Technically no it doesn't. In the case of Umberger, can he really be better, by being scratched? Could Lecavalier get better by scratching him? No, they can't!

Del Zotto was scratched because he was not playing within the team structure, was leading the rush too much, instead of filling in within the flow of the play offensively, and was caught on the wrong side of the puck too much. Berube was trying to get Del Zotto to remove those elements of his game, to become a better all around defenseman. He was also 25 years old, and had almost played his way out of the league, due to losing his way so to speak. Del Zotto wasn't scratched during that time period, because Berube felt the other players were better.

Medvedev, while highly skilled, and capable at times of playing good hockey, was frankly, not a very good defenseman. He was weak in coverage, and weak on the puck, and very inconsistent. Therefore, he was not trusted by the coach. The coach felt that the other players, were better choices in the lineup. At 33 years old, Hakstol was not using the scratch to make Medvedev a better player, he was just favoring other players over Medvedev. Which I agree with.
- MJL

okay lets just focus on players who are in the league for reasons other than their contract then. not buying that vinny and umberger have anything to do with this

i think you are just trying to rationalize what you said. you can try to point out specific things that changed and use that as a reason, but the point is that both players had deficiencies that caused the coach to scratch them. both needed to correct those in order to be inserted back into the lineup regularly.

in the eyes of a coach, they would both be better players if they listened to what they were being asked to do and executed as expected

i missed this

except medvedev was an nhl rookie and del zotto was a 5 year veteran
- YuenglingJagr

Oh well, then that makes all the difference.

Hey Ravish... just continuing from last blog:

I think the major difference in views here is how you see MDZ being used.. If I read this correctly, you have him as a 3rd pair guy. Even if all of our guys do make it to the next level, and play out as projected, MDZ would still be a top 4 d-man, because thats what he is at the NHL level. As MJL had said earlier, his offense has always been there. He has offensively been a top end producer. Two seasons ago he battled through early season benchings and what not, and went on to play a highly effective 2-way game. Last year, he backed off offensively, but was the Flyers best d-man, and it wasnt even much of an argument. Now if he can find a balance, and be a 30 point d-man and play that same sound defensive style from last year, he would be a hell of a 2nd pair d-man.

IF all the guys work out the way they are projected I thin a top 6 of
Provorov-MDZ
Ghost-Gudas
Sanheim-Morin

would be the most dynamic defense we have seen in O&B in a long long time.
- jak521

Is Drake a Canuck yet?

okay lets just focus on players who are in the league for reasons other than their contract then. not buying that vinny and umberger have anything to do with this

i think you are just trying to rationalize what you said. you can try to point out specific things that changed and use that as a reason, but the point is that both players had deficiencies that caused the coach to scratch them. both needed to correct those in order to be inserted back into the lineup regularly.

in the eyes of a coach, they would both be better players if they listened to what they were being asked to do and executed as expected

i missed this
- YuenglingJagr

Im trying to figure out if you are just trolling or not.

You cant see the difference between scratching a young player in an effort to get him to understand he needs to improve certain aspect of his game....and scratching an aging player because he cant play anymore?

Im trying to figure out if you are just trolling or not.

You cant see the difference between scratching a young player in an effort to get him to understand he needs to improve certain aspect of his game....and scratching an aging player because he cant play anymore?
- MBFlyerfan

yeah...i can...i am saying that Vinny and Umberger are outliers to the conversation and really the NHL in general.

I dont think a rookie to the NHL should be considered older and set in his ways just because hes 33. he still needs to adjust and develop to the NHL and had he had the chance to, or if he does next season...the result would be the same as MDZ (meaning scratching him helped him realize what he needed to fix)

Im trying to figure out if you are just trolling or not.

You cant see the difference between scratching a young player in an effort to get him to understand he needs to improve certain aspect of his game....and scratching an aging player because he cant play anymore?
- MBFlyerfan

Apparently not. Hakstol was not trying to make Medvedev a better player by scratching him down the stretch. Hakstol was scratching him because he favored the other players over Medvedev. In my opinion.

Right or wrong, I think Berube has a perception problem because of the type of player that he was.

I don't think it should have anything to do with it, but I fear that the type of player he was does color people's perception of his hockey knowledge.

Right or wrong, I think Berube has a perception problem because of the type of player that he was.

I don't think it should have anything to do with it, but I fear that the type of player he was does color people's perception of his hockey knowledge.
- johndewar

i agree...i think that will start to diminish as he develops as a coach. it was pretty clear from his time here that he did not think the same way as a coach compared to his time as a player

Is Drake a Canuck yet?
- arichardson22

How funny would it be if he went to the Pens..

Hahah this place would explode.

Apparently not. Hakstol was not trying to make Medvedev a better player by scratching him down the stretch. Hakstol was scratching him because he favored the other players over Medvedev. In my opinion.
- MJL

While this is likely, Medvedev could have had injuries. I know he made comments about fatigue being an issue even at moment or two throughout the season. But at the end of the day, I think we wanted to see what Manning could do. And Manning may not have been as good with puck moving and other aspects, but his mistakes or bad plays did not stand out nearly as much as Medvedev's, imo

Sorry, but I gotta disagree with Bill on this one. Berube did himself no favors. Hak is the better coach and Berube deserved to be fired IMO.

yeah...i can...i am saying that Vinny and Umberger are outliers to the conversation and really the NHL in general.

I dont think a rookie to the NHL should be considered older and set in his ways just because hes 33. he still needs to adjust and develop to the NHL and had he had the chance to, or if he does next season...the result would be the same as MDZ (meaning scratching him helped him realize what he needed to fix)
- YuenglingJagr

I remember a very good interview with Med just from a few months ago talking about that very fact. He was banged up a bit as well he said.. It is very different, and players making the jump from the KHL to the NHL tend to get bumps and bruises (physical ones) while adjusting to the game. He also said that he needed to better understand when and how to react to certain in game things, and that watching did help him.

Sorry, but I gotta disagree with Bill on this one. Berube did himself no favors. Hak is the better coach and Berube deserved to be fired IMO.
- PhillySportsGuy

While the players never really spoke ill of Berube (aside from Hartnell).. They all seem to really like playing for Hakstoll and are very vocal about it.

How funny would it be if he went to the Pens..

Hahah this place would explode.
- jak521

I would immediately go to Twitter and see reactions. Some tweeters speak about him like he's a top draft pick that got over looked. I was reading Oilers fans tweeting something along the lines of, " if we sign Cags, then we shouldn't draft a forward and most likely trade our pick since he will be a star." But I think if he signs with Chicago it will equally be annoying

...but Berube Deserves Another NHL Shot
- Bill

Please be with the Penguins or Rangers.

While the players never really spoke ill of Berube (aside from Hartnell).. They all seem to really like playing for Hakstoll and are very vocal about it.
- jak521

I can't remember why, but I always got the vibe that Giroux did not like Berube or that they just didn't get along. Just one of those odd feelings you get that you can't explain.

While the players never really spoke ill of Berube (aside from Hartnell).. They all seem to really like playing for Hakstoll and are very vocal about it.
- jak521

Did not Voracek praised him as a best coach he ever played for? Or am I mistaken?

Also, who can forget Vinny's ultimatum at the end of the last season?

I can't remember why, but I always got the vibe that Giroux did not like Berube or that they just didn't get along. Just one of those odd feelings you get that you can't explain.
- arichardson22

I had that feeling for pretty much most of the team..

He had been around for a pretty good amount of time too.. not just as head coach, so maybe they just had enough. That happens too. I do know that Hartnell puts his trade on Berube. They didnt get along..

i agree...i think that will start to diminish as he develops as a coach. it was pretty clear from his time here that he did not think the same way as a coach compared to his time as a player
- YuenglingJagr

I'm not saying it wasn't time to move on from Berube, but I never felt like Berube was
"the problem".

I think Berube will benefit from moving on to other coaching locales and picking up experience that way.

I like the way Hakstol handled himself this year and he seems to be the right coach for this group. I do wonder, though, if it's not time to let him pick his own assistants.

Did not Voracek praised him as a best coach he ever played for? Or am I mistaken?

Also, who can forget Vinny's ultimatum at the end of the last season?
- missingmike

He may have.. I sorta remember something along those lines. I just think he had been here too long and the players had tuned him out.

Another thing that does happen from time to time... Guys have certain relationships with assistants that change when they become head coaches. That can be both positive and negative.

Frank Seravalli ‏@frank_seravalli now4 seconds ago

Difficult to handicap Caggiula sweepstakes, but sense is it's down to VAN or EDM. Believe PHI, CHI, PIT, NYR and OTT are all out. We'll see.

Frank Seravalli ‏@frank_seravalli now4 seconds ago

Difficult to handicap Caggiula sweepstakes, but sense is it's down to VAN or EDM. Believe PHI, CHI, PIT, NYR and OTT are all out. We'll see.
- PLindbergh31

Activate the stare!

yeah...i can...i am saying that Vinny and Umberger are outliers to the conversation and really the NHL in general.

I dont think a rookie to the NHL should be considered older and set in his ways just because hes 33. he still needs to adjust and develop to the NHL and had he had the chance to, or if he does next season...the result would be the same as MDZ (meaning scratching him helped him realize what he needed to fix)
- YuenglingJagr

Rookie to the NHL and the rink size, new to the English language, new to North America, new to all of his teammates, no friends/family in the area. Dude wasn't given much of a chance to establish himself. Manning, however, was given all the leash he could have ever asked for, and it's pretty clear all he's going to be is a 6/7 who counts taking the body as his best asset.

I can't wait until we get to AMac.