I agree 100%. Clearly was not utilized properly and I still am sick about how Weise was used in the playoffs (or not used, more accurately). Anyone who's watched hockey outside of Hawks games can attest to the fact that he is a very strong player and was EXACTLY what we needed in a tough series against the Blues (he is a bigger and more technically skilled version of Shaw). He was given some slack on his leash in game 6 and he was very good... There were 6 other games that I would have loved to see him play a larger role in, and he was completely mismanaged. Unless the Hawks "grand plan" was to decrease his value so they could afford him, this was a huge error on Qs side.
- Frenchy4488

Totally agree, man.

I'm really over this idea that being physical in hockey isn't necessary anymore and that it's not the Hawks MO. Well, it might not be how the Hawks structure their team play, but other teams play that way and it can be a major advantage if it's done correctly--especially in the playoffs.

There's so much value in playing physical and tough, but the league is trying to convince people that the game doesn't need to be that way. They want speed and finesse, which is cool, but you a major part of the game is throwing the body.

I'd put "due to a high asking price" right after "waited too long."
- EKB13

Ok - I won't argue - point is, the market dried up, and he was left with Nill's offer.

Having those two guys signed (Schmaltz eventually) will certainly help.

My guess is that it comes down to Chicago and Vancouver for Caggiula, he has two teammates on each team (or their rights belong to the team).
- DarthKane

Many believes that Philly is front runner because of Dave Hakstol connection. Sure Caggiula would be nice asset to have but Hawks already have Tyler Motte and if Hawks can land Jimmy Vesey that would be really something.

Ok - I won't argue - point is, the market dried up, and he was left with Nill's offer.
- StLBravesFan

...and Nill emptied Bowman's pockets like some sucker playing 3-Card Monte.

Totally agree, man.

I'm really over this idea that being physical in hockey isn't necessary anymore and that it's not the Hawks MO. Well, it might not be how the Hawks structure their team play, but other teams play that way and it can be a major advantage if it's done correctly--especially in the playoffs.

There's so much value in playing physical and tough, but the league is trying to convince people that the game doesn't need to be that way. They want speed and finesse, which is cool, but you a major part of the game is throwing the body.
- Hank3Henshaw

Agree 100%. In a game of such speed and swings in momentum, there is a lot to be said for finishing a big check... No different than there is for stepping up and dropping the gloves with someone for taking a run at one of your teammates. I hate that the Hawks don't have any bite to their game. Brouwer BLEW UP Seabs in game 7 and nobody responded and Seabs looked lost the rest of the game... They were in on Crow all series long and nobody did anything (except Crow himself!!!) Seriously?!?! We let our goalie stand up for himself?!?! I played competitively for many years as a defenseman and if you were in my goalies face, you were counting rivets shortly thereafter... Period.

Being in a physical series like that is draining and it was clear at the end of game 7 when Seabs could hardly skate anymore. Hawks played rope-a-dope last year and it worked, but eventually that catches up to you... And you lose team chemistry when you don't have anyone willing to step up for their teammates (other than Shaw, Panik, and Crow for himself... All who tried to return the physical favors).

Hey Ek, good to see you back Can you let us know who, if anyone, has shown some value in Rockford and may have a decent chance to help out the Hawks this coming season? I'm especially curious about the "D".
- Murph76

Thanks for the warm welcome.

As to your question about "D," that list starts and ends with Pokka. Further, Norell looks like he might be something. However, unless he makes some huge leap development-wise over the summer, he'll be in Rockford next season learning on the job.

Correct, well-played.

Obscure NW Suburb references for a thousand, Alex!!
- John Jaeckel

I grew up there

Why Tampa Bay loses to the Islanders and fails to return to the Eastern Conference final:

from NHL.com (https://www.nhl.com/news/...c-280572886?tid=280202670)

The Tampa Bay Lightning had the opportunity to explore New York's sights and sounds during the 2015 Eastern Conference Final against the New York Rangers. This year, the Lightning decided to see Justin Bieber in concert on their day off between games of their second-round series against the New York Islanders.

Bieber performed at Barclays Center in Brooklyn on Wednesday night, and several of Tampa Bay's players were in attendance. Center Vladislav Namestnikov wore a T-shirt with the music star's face on it.

How does trading CC for a #4D, and needing to sign another goalie give you room for Panarin?

I still think the compliance buyout is a for real thing and Hossa's money will go to keep 72.

More than a coincidence that 2,4,7,50,19 and 88 all have NMCs. They are all part of the plan.
- Return of the Roar

Compliance buyout for Hossa not happening. With recapture you're still looking at a ~1.8/mil hit next year and then ~4.5+ million/yr cap hit for 4 years after that. Capfriendly/General Fanager have the exact values but it's not good

Many believes that Philly is front runner because of Dave Hakstol connection. Sure Caggiula would be nice asset to have but Hawks already have Tyler Motte and if Hawks can land Jimmy Vesey that would be really something.
- MjulQvist

Think the odds on landing Vesey are very slim. I think he's likely a Bruin on August 16th. Feels like the Reilly situation last year.

Agree 100%. In a game of such speed and swings in momentum, there is a lot to be said for finishing a big check... No different than there is for stepping up and dropping the gloves with someone for taking a run at one of your teammates. I hate that the Hawks don't have any bite to their game. Brouwer BLEW UP Seabs in game 7 and nobody responded and Seabs looked lost the rest of the game... They were in on Crow all series long and nobody did anything (except Crow himself!!!) Seriously?!?! We let our goalie stand up for himself?!?! I played competitively for many years as a defenseman and if you were in my goalies face, you were counting rivets shortly thereafter... Period.

Being in a physical series like that is draining and it was clear at the end of game 7 when Seabs could hardly skate anymore. Hawks played rope-a-dope last year and it worked, but eventually that catches up to you... And you lose team chemistry when you don't have anyone willing to step up for their teammates (other than Shaw, Panik, and Crow for himself... All who tried to return the physical favors).
- Frenchy4488

Physicality will always be a factor in hockey-- athletes on ice with no out of bounds and carrying sticks! It is part of the game-- Being physical is not just hitting or standing up for a teammate-- although both important-- its winning all the battles big and small and scoring by beating the defense and the goalie--

Where the Hawks have been able to make other teams pay was that the team speed and finish by putting the puck in the net would back other teams off-- when your PP is lethal many teams will think about being overly physical-- BUt if you can't convert-- then it changes the dynamics-- team toughness is more important coupled with skill and finish--

Thanks for the warm welcome.

As to your question about "D," that list starts and ends with Pokka. Further, Norell looks like he might be something. However, unless he makes some huge leap development-wise over the summer, he'll be in Rockford next season learning on the job.
- EKB13

Cool, everything I've heard about Pokka is that he is glacially slow, like "John Scott" slow. So that could be a huge issue it seems. What are your thoughts on McNeil and Hartman? Per JJ, McNeil sort of needs to be "setup" in order to score goals and is not nearly as physical as he should be. Hartman may just have some anger mgmt. issues, but I don't watch enough Hogs games to have a valid opinion of my own.

Cool, everything I've heard about Pokka is that he is glacially slow, like "John Scott" slow. So that could be a huge issue it seems. What are your thoughts on McNeil and Hartman? Per JJ, McNeil sort of needs to be "setup" in order to score goals and is not nearly as physical as he should be. Hartman may just have some anger mgmt. issues, but I don't watch enough Hogs games to have a valid opinion of my own.
- Murph76

If Hartman or McNeil can't make the Hawks roster this fall, IDK if they will ever be NHL players in Chicago. I really liked the speed/physicality of Hartman in his short NHL time and would expect him to earn a bottom six role with the big club this year. McNeil...pretty meh with his 1 game cameo but I like adding another 6'2" body with some finishing ability to the bottom six

If Hartman or McNeil can't make the Hawks roster this fall, IDK if they will ever be NHL players in Chicago. I really liked the speed/physicality of Hartman in his short NHL time and would expect him to earn a bottom six role with the big club this year. McNeil...pretty meh with his 1 game cameo but I like adding another 6'2" body with some finishing ability to the bottom six
- EnzoD

Thanks Enzo, that's somewhat encouraging to hear on both McNeil and Hartman. I am rooting for McNeil, he's been a Hog for a decent amount of time now and I agree we need more guys who are over 6' 200 and willing to throw their weight around/can score some goals/and God willing...stick up for their teammates if warranted.

Physicality will always be a factor in hockey-- athletes on ice with no out of bounds and carrying sticks! It is part of the game-- Being physical is not just hitting or standing up for a teammate-- although both important-- its winning all the battles big and small and scoring by beating the defense and the goalie--

Where the Hawks have been able to make other teams pay was that the team speed and finish by putting the puck in the net would back other teams off-- when your PP is lethal many teams will think about being overly physical-- BUt if you can't convert-- then it changes the dynamics-- team toughness is more important coupled with skill and finish--
- jb3333

But the Hawks were good on the PP during the regular season and in the playoffs.

Agree 100%. In a game of such speed and swings in momentum, there is a lot to be said for finishing a big check... No different than there is for stepping up and dropping the gloves with someone for taking a run at one of your teammates. I hate that the Hawks don't have any bite to their game. Brouwer BLEW UP Seabs in game 7 and nobody responded and Seabs looked lost the rest of the game... They were in on Crow all series long and nobody did anything (except Crow himself!!!) Seriously?!?! We let our goalie stand up for himself?!?! I played competitively for many years as a defenseman and if you were in my goalies face, you were counting rivets shortly thereafter... Period.

Being in a physical series like that is draining and it was clear at the end of game 7 when Seabs could hardly skate anymore. Hawks played rope-a-dope last year and it worked, but eventually that catches up to you... And you lose team chemistry when you don't have anyone willing to step up for their teammates (other than Shaw, Panik, and Crow for himself... All who tried to return the physical favors).
- Frenchy4488

This

They had a chance to play Weise (a guy who has some snarl to his game) more, but for some reason didn't. At least Panik stepped up in that department.

I remember sports media/Hawks fans laughing at Hitchcock for making the comment about wanting his players to hit the Hawks more. They laughed at him like he was some meat head or a complete idiot. Well, guess what, Hitch's comment made a lot of sense. All that physicality adds up--especially when it's one-sided. Hawks couldn't hold up against it.

Trying to catch up here, but I do agree on Daley. LIke I said yesterday, at the time of the trade I didn't hate it. You got back a Oduya type player and veteran depth guy who add some scoring. Now whatever happened has gone done, and like others I am willing to pass a lot of blame around but the organization's commitment to TVR I am going to bet played a large role in Daley wanting out. IF they would have slotted Daley in the 3/4 D spot and put TVR down below....he's probably still here.

NO qualms on Sekac. That guy did nothing me unlike Panik who at least showed promise. Sekac just floated around reason why he's on his 4th in a little amount of time.

For those who were on the Daily herald blog back in the summer of 2009 when Bolland got his ASININE deal, and know how much I despised that deal....I know look at Kruger the same way.

I have given up hope Shaw is returning. It piisses me off to no end, as if you want to argue possible back/concussion issues for Shaw, find me another NHL player who gets absolutely smoked like Kruger does. He has no idea how not to put himself in bad positions and is a free hit stat for anyone who wants it. Throw in his bad wrist and you have Bolland part deux.

At least good ole Bollus could score....

So how does Shaw and his agent ignore the fact that the Hawks just committed a 3.083 cap hit for 3 years to a guy who statistically might be no better then Mike Hudson, or Mike Eagles. Great win that draw, Marcus, but then skate off the ice because John SCott may have a better chance at scoring....

Kruger....

328 games played, 28 goals, 60 assists---regular season
83 games played, 6 goals, 9 assists----playoffs

His defenders will point to his overall game. Great. Shaw has a more complete versatile game....Could Kruger skate top 6 as well as bottom 6? Not a chance in hell. And for all the big goals Kruger has scored in the playoffs, the only one I really recall is his OT winner vs Anaheim in game 2....possibly the last time he has scored.

Shaw.....
302 games played, 70 g, 60 assists---regular season
64 games played, 16 g, 18 assists---playoffs

And I'm sure we can all recall a lot more crucial Shaw goals then Krugers in meaningful moments.

I just dont' get the rational and if we want to bash Q about linesups, then why not bash the FO on trading Danault who I'm damn sure given similar linemates produces more.

Kruger is one of the worst bangs for the buck on this team, and will cost you more then shaw, and I'm sure EVERY GM in the league scoffed at the cap hit the Hawks gave a guy to be a glorified PK and faceoff man.

But the Hawks were good on the PP during the regular season and in the playoffs.
- etchtech

Not good enough in the playoff games-- they had multiple chances to put games away and deflate the Blues-- didn't do it--

To Steve's post on Kruger v Shaw--

I am with you 100% and the extension coming days after trading away the 3C of the future in Phillip Danault paints the picture very clearly. StanBo lost some leverage bc there was no longer an in-house replacement for Krugs. Marcus Kruger could have MAYBE gotten $3mil/year as a UFA but there is no way in heck that the Hawks can afford to pay Kruger and his 15 points a year $3mil. Not with the top-end talent/cap hits the Hawks have on the books. Its just silly, and unless Kruger is the 3C during that contract (producing more offense than he ever has in the past), that is another poor contract on the books for several years...

'Hawks only perspective #2 looks great. Strong probability it would have happened. I am not sure a lot of teams were going to line up to give the 'Hawks $5.9M in cap relief. Where it would be interesting is what the parameters of the eventual Sharp deal would have been with #1 already in the books. Here in lies Stan's challenge. Learning from these situations and improving significantly this spring/summer.
- blackhawk24

Still will never believe that a team that felt Sharp puts them over the top wouldn't take him and his contract for one or two years for a low pick, regardless what it did for the Hawks cap relief.

To Steve's post on Kruger v Shaw--

I am with you 100% and the extension coming days after trading away the 3C of the future in Phillip Danault paints the picture very clearly. StanBo lost some leverage bc there was no longer an in-house replacement for Krugs. Marcus Kruger could have MAYBE gotten $3mil/year as a UFA but there is no way in heck that the Hawks can afford to pay Kruger and his 15 points a year $3mil. Not with the top-end talent/cap hits the Hawks have on the books. Its just silly, and unless Kruger is the 3C during that contract (producing more offense than he ever has in the past), that is another poor contract on the books for several years...
- EnzoD

Kruger's value goes way beyond points. Just look at how the team did on the PK when Kruger was out.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Danault was the future 3C. It's possible, but that's far from a guarantee. I think it's safe to assume that Stan considered the possible impact trading Danault might have on the contract negotiations in advance of the trade. I agree that $3.083 million is on the high side for what Krugs should be paid, but some of that is probably compensation for taking a sweetheart deal last season.

My thoughts at the time were that Daley was not a fit here. I wondered about the hip, like others on here, also. And I think had he gotten a goal early on, he might have gotten some confidence here. He never played for anything before coming here, and for some, the high expectations can be daunting. When he went to Pittsburgh, the expectations weren't quite the same at the time. It's an unfortunate situation, and I'm not going to cast blame on anybody for how this whole affair turned out. Sure, we could say why wasn't he paired with Hammer for any real amount of time, but we're not hanging out at Johnny's and seeing what Q gets to see day in and day out.

The other part of the situation, let's not forget that the Hawks were backed up against the cap limit. It made the decision to move him that much easier. In a vacuum nobody trades Daley for Scuderi, we all know that, and we all knew it at the time. Remember that it meant the Hawks could bring up Gustafsson at the time, and he proved useful until the serious regression.

Stanley's goal with this spot likely shifted to keep reducing this spot's cap hit until it is fully minimized, as each subsequent albatross acquired was cheaper than the last. If Scuderi retires, then it's mission accomplished in that regard, if it's true that his cap hit goes away.

Kruger's value goes way beyond points. Just look at how the team did on the PK when Kruger was out.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Danault was the future 3C. It's possible, but that's far from a guarantee. I think it's safe to assume that Stan considered the possible impact trading Danault might have on the contract negotiations in advance of the trade. I agree that $3.083 million is on the high side for what Krugs should be paid, but some of that is probably compensation for taking a sweetheart deal last season.
- DarthKane

Thanks Edzo.Darth....

Well for as well the PK supposedly did in the regular season when 16/22 was back, it also got a train run on it by the blues in 7 games and is one of the big factors why the Hawks are home or at the paris nightclub or where ever the hell they are.

the Hawks Pk in 2013 flourished because they took a player like Frolik and got him to buy in. Could they have taken another player on this team to do the same thing? I'm sure they could have.

Just very hard and extremely frustrating that the Hawks are going to lose Shaw and have to watch Kruger labor up and down the ice practically giving this team nothing.

And yes, while the Ladd/Hossa line was very good......Kruger had little to do with that production from game 5+, and why do I say that? Go back and see who Q put between those 2 late in the game when he needed a goal......it was Shaw.

This is nothing new for this regime......you would have thought after having their backs against the wall with BIckell in the summer of 2013 they would have learned not to overpay again....but that's precisely what they did....so while we can sit here and complain about Seabrook (valid), or Hossa (valid) or some other guys with big cap hits for what you get, Kruger to me has been and should have been expendable and if the Vegas expansion team wants him.........please.....take him.

I'm in this school of thought. Unfortunately, there are only a few people who know the real story and it will never be public knowledge. I agree that giving the defending champs and the most dominant franchise of the last 7 seasons EXACTLY what they need would be silly... Yes, Dallas was able to improve by the deal, but if they can knock the Hawks down a peg (which they did), then it makes their improvement that much greater. If Stan had 2 second rounders offered at the draft and he passed on it, he's an idiot (which is possible)...
- Frenchy4488

I don't actually think that trade would have made Dallas better - you give up two relatively valuable assets for a couple years of a good but overpaid winger, and now you're forced to ditch somebody's contract to have room for Sharp -- Dallas is paying $10.4m for its goalie tandem right now, remember?

Instead, they gave up Daley and Garbutt -- which created room for Sharp and Johnny Oduya (who, by the way, would have easily been re-signed if the Hawks had dumped all of Sharp's cap hit) -- and grabbed off a mid-tier defensive prospect to boot. THAT was a plus deal for the Stars. Which is probably why it was made.

That's not to say it was necessarily a horrible deal for Chicago, because it wasn't. The Blackhawks acquired a decent NHL defenseman, a bottom-six winger with some speed and GRRRRRITTTTTT, and managed to open up some cap space. It obviously didn't pan out, the reasons for which remain mysterious, but it's not like the Hawks got nothing in return.

The problem, of course, is that they squandered what they did get. Oh well. At least they opened up a bit more cap space in the Daley/Scuderi swap.

Thanks Edzo.Darth....

Well for as well the PK supposedly did in the regular season when 16/22 was back, it also got a train run on it by the blues in 7 games and is one of the big factors why the Hawks are home or at the paris nightclub or where ever the hell they are.

the Hawks Pk in 2013 flourished because they took a player like Frolik and got him to buy in. Could they have taken another player on this team to do the same thing? I'm sure they could have.

Just very hard and extremely frustrating that the Hawks are going to lose Shaw and have to watch Kruger labor up and down the ice practically giving this team nothing.

And yes, while the Ladd/Hossa line was very good......Kruger had little to do with that production from game 5+, and why do I say that? Go back and see who Q put between those 2 late in the game when he needed a goal......it was Shaw.

This is nothing new for this regime......you would have thought after having their backs against the wall with BIckell in the summer of 2013 they would have learned not to overpay again....but that's precisely what they did....so while we can sit here and complain about Seabrook (valid), or Hossa (valid) or some other guys with big cap hits for what you get, Kruger to me has been and should have been expendable and if the Vegas expansion team wants him.........please.....take him.
- SteveRain

First, Kruger doesn't give the team give the team nothing. Like I said, Kruger's value goes beyond points. Kruger provides a defensive game and excellence in faceoffs. It's nice to have a centre to rely on other than Toews.

Thant being said, Shaw provides a lot that Kruger does not - offense, physical tenacity, visible overall excitement for the game.

My point is that Shaw and Kruger both offer value to the team but in different ways. The team would be hurt by losing either guy as they are quality forwards. If you want to make the argument that Danault could have replaced Kruger then you can make a similar argument that McNeill or Hartman can replace Shaw.

It's unfortunately the salary cap grow has slowed down. Had cap continued to grow at it's previous pace there would have been no issue keeping both of these excellent forwards.