WD deserves criticism IMO for some of his deployment decisions but he also deserves more time with this group to see if they can improve.

Like the article Whitelie posted, I think there is a lot of value in rolling 4 lines but at the same time, in certain situations as a coach you need to be able to get your best players on the ice, something that WD hasn't been able to do so far.

I also think the Pedan experiment was asinine, the kid got barely any reps in as a D early because they wanted more experience guys back there. Then when the playoff dream was over and he had the opportunity to get some experience WD decided to try him as a forward.

I am glad that Benning recently confirmed that the experiment is over and that they will use him a D moving forward, he also specifically said in the interview that it was WD's idea to use him as a forward.

Our most likely pick is 5th followed by 4th...all I care about is top 3. I'll be happy with 1-3
- CanuckDon

I've already accepted that we won't get the top 3 so 4 or 5 I will be really happy if we select one of Dubois/Tkachuck. 6 would be really disappointing.

Agreed, not much separates 6-15. I'd trade down and add a second if was an option
- CanuckDon

If they end up picking 5th or 6th, I'd like to see them trade their first down and their 2nd up so they have two mid-first round picks. Double their chances of getting an impact player or at least two very good prospects.

Might be able to trade one of those picks for an RFA D-man to accelerate things a bit.

I've already accepted that we won't get the top 3 so 4 or 5 I will be really happy if we select one of Dubois/Tkachuck. 6 would be really disappointing.
- belcherbd

I will cry and preach that Bettman is a shady SOB if the following things happen:

EDM wins the lottery
TOR wins the lottery
Canucks finish outside the top 3

Am I being fair?

In previous discussions with Dragon, I have mentioned that I dont think Willie survives 2016 as the coach and I dont disagree he has done some really questionable things in his line up and deployment of the players.

My only argument with Dragon is his claims that there is no system, which is absurd. No one makes it to the NHL without a system, this article even references and gives props to the system:



And the piece further supports the claim that the players are responsible for the poor results. Even the defense, which he thinks are the worst and definitely needs their coach replaced gets top-10 credit from the stats.



I think most are ok with the idea of seeing what Willie can do to start next season, two seasons is a small sample size of his capabilities. Considering the team isnt going anywhere anytime soon, the urgency to replace the coach is unnecessary IMO
- WhiteLie

Agreed. Next season he will be under the microscope for sure and stability is what the team needs going forward. The last paragraph really summed it up too.

"And if the Canucks are going to turn over a more patient, more stable, more functional leaf, then retaining Desjardins and resisting the urge to hire a fourth head coach in five years is a reasonable start."

Imagine the kick in the nuts for the developing side if they change things up after a small sample size? Firing the coach just depletes anything positive for them to retain going into next year. One more year and we will have a better idea imo.

I think our chance of 1st or 6th is basically the same. 11%?
- mauryballstein

These are the Canucks we're talking about here. If they stay true to form, the lottery will somehow have some unique quirk that sees them picking 8th.

WD deserves criticism IMO for some of his deployment decisions but he also deserves more time with this group to see if they can improve.

Like the article Whitelie posted, I think there is a lot of value in rolling 4 lines but at the same time, in certain situations as a coach you need to be able to get your best players on the ice, something that WD hasn't been able to do so far.

I also think the Pedan experiment was asinine, the kid got barely any reps in as a D early because they wanted more experience guys back there. Then when the playoff dream was over and he had the opportunity to get some experience WD decided to try him as a forward.

I am glad that Benning recently confirmed that the experiment is over and that they will use him a D moving forward, he also specifically said in the interview that it was WD's idea to use him as a forward.
- belcherbd

Yup for me this is his last year if he continues with his odd deployment. No point in not bringing him back the team wont be very good again. JB should really be getting involved if he continues with his decisions from last year.

WD deserves criticism IMO for some of his deployment decisions but he also deserves more time with this group to see if they can improve.

Like the article Whitelie posted, I think there is a lot of value in rolling 4 lines but at the same time, in certain situations as a coach you need to be able to get your best players on the ice, something that WD hasn't been able to do so far.

I also think the Pedan experiment was asinine, the kid got barely any reps in as a D early because they wanted more experience guys back there. Then when the playoff dream was over and he had the opportunity to get some experience WD decided to try him as a forward.

I am glad that Benning recently confirmed that the experiment is over and that they will use him a D moving forward, he also specifically said in the interview that it was WD's idea to use him as a forward.
- belcherbd

Yup, all this is fair and I dont even think that this was stealth tank tactic either to play Bart and Weber more on D than Pedan. Hopefully this was an anomaly due to the injuries and bad season and that the beginning of next season, with a full training camp and healthy roster, we see how his judgement is with regards to usage and lineups

I've already accepted that we won't get the top 3 so 4 or 5 I will be really happy if we select one of Dubois/Tkachuck. 6 would be really disappointing.
- belcherbd

I feel the same they both bring scoring, size and grit.

WD deserves criticism IMO for some of his deployment decisions but he also deserves more time with this group to see if they can improve.

Like the article Whitelie posted, I think there is a lot of value in rolling 4 lines but at the same time, in certain situations as a coach you need to be able to get your best players on the ice, something that WD hasn't been able to do so far.

I also think the Pedan experiment was asinine, the kid got barely any reps in as a D early because they wanted more experience guys back there. Then when the playoff dream was over and he had the opportunity to get some experience WD decided to try him as a forward.

I am glad that Benning recently confirmed that the experiment is over and that they will use him a D moving forward, he also specifically said in the interview that it was WD's idea to use him as a forward.
- belcherbd

I didn't care for that experiment much. and didn't like the idea of seeing Weber or Bart in the lineup and Pedan scratched in the last few games of the season.

Many times, putting the lines on paper, moving players around, there wasn't much you could do or expect from the lineup beyond the Sedin line.

There is something to be said about icing the lines as the consensus would expect and getting poor results, but when you put lines together that leaves many scratching their heads, and you get poor results, you are in trouble. I don't think WD will be behind the bench at the end of next season if he doesn't get better results.

These are the Canucks we're talking about here. If they stay true to form, the lottery will somehow have some unique quirk that sees them picking 8th.
- YeOldTimer

If its going to happen it will be to the canucks

I've already accepted that we won't get the top 3 so 4 or 5 I will be really happy if we select one of Dubois/Tkachuck. 6 would be really disappointing.
- belcherbd

I've set my bar even lower: I hope the Canucks have a first round draft pick on draft day, I feel pretty good about it but JB still might toss it in for Martin's rights

I didn't care for that experiment much. and didn't like the idea of seeing Weber or Bart in the lineup and Pedan scratched in the last few games of the season.

Many times, putting the lines on paper, moving players around, there wasn't much you could do or expect from the lineup beyond the Sedin line.

There is something to be said about icing the lines as the consensus would expect and getting poor results, but when you put lines together that leaves many scratching their heads, and you get poor results, you are in trouble. I don't think WD will be behind the bench at the end of next season if he doesn't get better results.
- hillbillydeluxe

I see him starting next year but I agree with you, I dont think he is the coach the following year.

Agreed. Next season he will be under the microscope for sure and stability is what the team needs going forward. The last paragraph really summed it up too.

"And if the Canucks are going to turn over a more patient, more stable, more functional leaf, then retaining Desjardins and resisting the urge to hire a fourth head coach in five years is a reasonable start."

Imagine the kick in the nuts for the developing side if they change things up after a small sample size? Firing the coach just depletes anything positive for them to retain going into next year. One more year and we will have a better idea imo.
- WhatTheNuck

Thats the other thing too, look at Edmonton and their coaching carousal. Yak was a goal scorer in his rookie season, Eakins doghouse and has some up and downs with McLellan this year. We are seeing positives with Bo, Sven, and JV had a good second half, Willie's chances of leading the team to a cup is slim but he could establish a good foundation for players that might.

Thats the other thing too, look at Edmonton and their coaching carousal. Yak was a goal scorer in his rookie season, Eakins doghouse and has some up and downs with McLellan this year. We are seeing positives with Bo, Sven, and JV had a good second half, Willie's chances of leading the team to a cup is slim but he could establish a good foundation for players that might.
- WhiteLie

Players have to buy into a system. I don't see a whole lot from WD. Unless the team totally poops the bed in the 1st 20 to 30 games he and his staff are safe. That said you can't really fire a guy who has had that many players(and rookies) in and out of the line up this season but constantly moving players up and down the line up tells me he really doesn't have much of an idea what to do.

ON the Sedins... he didn't play them at the opportune moments of the game. Guys in the media were all over him for it to. When you hear the play by play guys going I don't know what Willie is doing putting _______ out why are the Sedins on the bench? We heard that a lot. The positive side of things young players got a chance to play and he gave them minutes.

I see him starting next year but I agree with you, I dont think he is the coach the following year.
- mauryballstein

If the players can stay healthy and the team gets off to a good start, WD could finish the season as coach, but if the team is healthy and still struggles, I don't expect WD to last.

So much depends on the draft and additions to the club via trade and ufa. Once WD is replaced, I would wonder how long JB would hold onto the gm position?

I see him starting next year but I agree with you, I dont think he is the coach the following year.
- mauryballstein

I think that next year will be the bottoming out for the team.

I don't buy into the injury excuse for this season's poor result. I'm not saying that the injuries weren't substantial but I honestly feel this is a bad team. But that's not necessarily a bad thing when your aim should be rebuilding.

I see last year's team as a typical weak team. A team that has a good start but fades when the rest of the league finds its legs. Winning the October Cup shouldn't put a false face on this bad team.

As for WD, he should be judged on his development of the youngsters and his record in that regard was mixed to pretty good. I absolutely can't stand some of his decisions but I don't mind him staying around until the team bottoms out.

In my perfect world, he lasts the entire season next year and is replaced in the off season.

I want a new coach who can add to a sense of optimism to a team on the rise. Sadly, I still feel that we are a team on the decline. Let a lame duck coach handle that ride.

These are the Canucks we're talking about here. If they stay true to form, the lottery will somehow have some unique quirk that sees them picking 8th.
- YeOldTimer

We will win 1st but then pick second if history tells us anything

Thats the other thing too, look at Edmonton and their coaching carousal. Yak was a goal scorer in his rookie season, Eakins doghouse and has some up and downs with McLellan this year. We are seeing positives with Bo, Sven, and JV had a good second half, Willie's chances of leading the team to a cup is slim but he could establish a good foundation for players that might.
- WhiteLie

These are good points. Edmonton has had rookie "star" coaches, unknown coaches, experienced and respected NHL coaches and they continue to suck. WD leaves me scratching my head sometimes, but at this point may as well wait and give him next year, especially if Linden and Benning think he is having a positive impact on the kid's d velopment

If the players can stay healthy and the team gets off to a good start, WD could finish the season as coach, but if the team is healthy and still struggles, I don't expect WD to last.

So much depends on the draft and additions to the club via trade and ufa. Once WD is replaced, I would wonder how long JB would hold onto the gm position?
- hillbillydeluxe

Bennings job isn't in question. He was handed $hit and is expected to make lemonade. He hasn't even been here 2 years yet. He was brought in to fill the cupboard and stay competitive.

I think that next year will be the bottoming out for the team.

I don't buy into the injury excuse for this season's poor result. I'm not saying that the injuries weren't substantial but I honestly feel this is a bad team. But that's not necessarily a bad thing when your aim should be rebuilding.

I see last year's team as a typical weak team. A team that has a good start but fades when the rest of the league finds its legs. Winning the October Cup shouldn't put a false face on this bad team.

As for WD, he should be judged on his development of the youngsters and his record in that regard was mixed to pretty good. I absolutely can't stand some of his decisions but I don't mind him staying around until the team bottoms out.

In my perfect world, he lasts the entire season next year and is replaced in the off season.
I want a new coach who can add to a sense of optimism to a team on the rise. Sadly, I still feel that we are a team on the decline. Let a lame duck coach handle that ride.
- RealityChecker

WD should be judged on all levels not just on his development. You can't just pick and choose at that level. You need more from a coach at an NHL level.

These are good points. Edmonton has had rookie "star" coaches, unknown coaches, experienced and respected NHL coaches and they continue to suck. WD leaves me scratching my head sometimes, but at this point may as well wait and give him next year, especially if Linden and Benning think he is having a positive impact on the kid's d velopment
- bazz

I think Linden likes him. I wouldnt' go so far to say that Jim likes him as much as Trevor.

If the players can stay healthy and the team gets off to a good start, WD could finish the season as coach, but if the team is healthy and still struggles, I don't expect WD to last.

So much depends on the draft and additions to the club via trade and ufa. Once WD is replaced, I would wonder how long JB would hold onto the gm position?
- hillbillydeluxe

Unless FA gets involved, I think JB's job is much safer than WD's. He's was given the task to get younger and develop and so far he's drafted extremely well and made a few trades to acquire younger NHL calibre players, its been a retool as best he can

Bennings job isn't in question. He was handed $hit and is expected to make lemonade. He hasn't even been here 2 years yet. He was brought in to fill the cupboard and stay competitive.
- thundachunk

WD is icing the players that JB has decided to keep or acquire. I think WD is fired before JB, but once you bring in a replacement coach that gets similar results as the first, JB's time starts dwindling quickly.

Is it the coach or the players? new coach, same results. so it's not the coach. you start looking at the gm.

the impatient Vancouver market...

I think that next year will be the bottoming out for the team.

I don't buy into the injury excuse for this season's poor result. I'm not saying that the injuries weren't substantial but I honestly feel this is a bad team. But that's not necessarily a bad thing when your aim should be rebuilding.

I see last year's team as a typical weak team. A team that has a good start but fades when the rest of the league finds its legs. Winning the October Cup shouldn't put a false face on this bad team.

As for WD, he should be judged on his development of the youngsters and his record in that regard was mixed to pretty good. I absolutely can't stand some of his decisions but I don't mind him staying around until the team bottoms out.

In my perfect world, he lasts the entire season next year and is replaced in the off season.

I want a new coach who can add to a sense of optimism to a team on the rise. Sadly, I still feel that we are a team on the decline. Let a lame duck coach handle that ride.
- RealityChecker

Thats the thing, he is being (fairly) criticized for his deployment but a result of him rolling 4 lines often means that rookies are getting more than 10 minutes per game. Guys are not being thrown into the fire and expected to be top 6 as rookies, but given icetime depending on the circumstances. I actually get more frustrated with him when its a 2 goal lead or down 2 and the rookies get stapled to the bench. Thats where I am more critical of him, because I've come to terms that the roster isnt good enough for playoffs so let these young guys keep learning.

I like what the Sutter injury did for Bo to see how he stacks up, forcing him to be used in all situations that WD might not have given him