It's sad when you are ridiculed by half the fan base for wanting to win a hockey game.
- Marwood

I am no longer cheering for wins and losses, I just hope the team and certain players play well. If they do play well, they probably will win games, but the results really don't matter to me this year. I just want to see entertaining hockey and some of the promise these young guys are showing come to fruition, if that means they draft lower so be it

I think part of the problem is that when your team sucks then you don't have much to cheer for except the prospects, and the very high draft picks often get elevated onto a pedestal before they've ever really accomplished anything, or become complete hockey players.

Those young players read the press or the clippings and start believing they are stars, before they actually are and don't really see the need to change their game. They become more difficult to coach out of bad habits.
- golfingsince

All good points. Which makes the argument of the draft age going to 19. An extra year in the AHL or junior where draft choices can hone their game probably will not hurt. Most likely will help with all of the injuries to 18 year old as well.

Losing in a poison. A culture that is becoming a problem on teams like edmonton and TO. The best thing they are doing is trying to coach their way out.
- thundachunk

IMO the oilers will never be good until most of nuge hall ebs yak are gone ...they have all came into the league and are accustom to losing ...one might question if the know how to win ...I'm not worried about mcdavid or even draistl ...yet ...I get the feeling the original core is content to be rich and playing hockey... It's all the guys like Perron pouliot etc who have came there and been mad after losses

I am no longer cheering for wins and losses, I just hope the team and certain players play well. If they do play well, they probably will win games, but the results really don't matter to me this year. I just want to see entertaining hockey and some of the promise these young guys are showing come to fruition, if that means they draft lower so be it
- WhiteLie

Much the same with me.

Great discussion this morning from every one.

All good points. Which makes the argument of the draft age going to 19. An extra year in the AHL or junior where draft choices can hone their game probably will not hurt. Most likely will help with all of the injuries to 18 year old as well.
- LordHumungous

I cant see them moving the draft age to 19, unless you could play in the AHL after you turn 18 (similarly to how Matthews had to wait for his birthday for his Swiss debut). The problem comes with these projected first round prospects dominating a league at 17/18 and having to play another year at 19. I know these are the radial examples, but Tavares/Crosby/Ekblad joined the OHL at 15, played 4 years before leaving. If he had to play a 5th it wouldnt serve him, the OHL or NHL any good.

Even Lou said of Marner that he isnt NHL ready but is too dominant in Junior, in what would be his draft year if the rules changed, and still might have to return him again next season if he doesnt crack the Leafs

IMO the oilers will never be good until most of nuge hall ebs yak are gone ...they have all came into the league and are accustom to losing ...one might question if the know how to win ...I'm not worried about mcdavid or even draistl ...yet ...I get the feeling the original core is content to be rich and playing hockey... It's all the guys like Perron pouliot etc who have came there and been mad after losses
- Redmile247

This is just it though...is it the culture that existed before Ebs Hall Nuge and Yak got there or is it MNGT/Coaching not getting them what they need to succeed?

Bit of both maybe but I still believe the majority of it falls to MNGT/Coaching.

Ebs and Hall both came from winning environments before NHL and Yak and Nuge had successes on thie junior teams too...does that instantly change in an OIler uni?

Purcell Pouliot Maroon even kassian Perron and few others all come from Winning backgrounds. They change when the Oiler uniform goes on? Not sure I can get there.

No top goalie...no top 4 D...and MNGT and coaching are the big contributions IMO. If Oiler MNGT/Coaching would have surrounded their top picks with leadership and the correct players to compliment them things may have looked very different there by now. Sure I get what Makita says how can you have 4-5 no 1 picks and not be good? But I also get what golfingsince says where tossing top picks to wolves with no guidance and expectations super high not only locally but all over the media.

Much the same with me.

Great discussion this morning from every one.
- Marwood

Losing in a poison. A culture that is becoming a problem on teams like edmonton and TO. The best thing they are doing is trying to coach their way out.
- thundachunk

it won't work when the coach is overrated and has an ego the size of the arena... bab cock

it won't work when the coach is overrated and has an ego the size of the arena... bab cock
- kaptaan

I think they brought in Babcock too soon. hired to be fired, especially on a tanking and rebuilding team. Then again, maybe Lou will be gone before Babcock.

This is just it though...is it the culture that existed before Ebs Hall Nuge and Yak got there or is it MNGT/Coaching not getting them what they need to succeed?

Bit of both maybe but I still believe the majority of it falls to MNGT/Coaching.

Ebs and Hall both came from winning environments before NHL and Yak and Nuge had successes on thie junior teams too...does that instantly change in an OIler uni?

Purcell Pouliot Maroon even kassian Perron and few others all come from Winning backgrounds. They change when the Oiler uniform goes on? Not sure I can get there.

No top goalie...no top 4 D...and MNGT and coaching are the big contributions IMO. If Oiler MNGT/Coaching would have surrounded their top picks with leadership and the correct players to compliment them things may have looked very different there by now. Sure I get what Makita says how can you have 4-5 no 1 picks and not be good? But I also get what golfingsince says where tossing top picks to wolves with no guidance and expectations super high not only locally but all over the media.
- LordHumungous

I think they lack in goal and on the back end but I just look at all those first overalls not having learned from your prototypical pro or vet what it really takes to be a good nhler ...almost every good prospect comes from some sort of winning environment but there is a huge difference from winning as a kid and winning against men in a league like the NHL.
They were paid and loved the good life as a result of their high end skill ...but they didn't have that guy to demonstrate what it takes to be a pro

I think they lack in goal and on the back end but I just look at all those first overalls not having learned from your prototypical pro or vet what it really takes to be a good nhler ...almost every good prospect comes from some sort of winning environment but there is a huge difference from winning as a kid and winning against men in a league like the NHL.
They were paid and loved the good life as a result of their high end skill ...but they didn't have that guy to demonstrate what it takes to be a pro
- Redmile247

I think thats the key right there. In juniors, even if youre stuck on a bad team eventually youre going to move on from the league. Top prospect or not, you know that at maximum you'll be in this losing environment until your 20 and you get a fresh start. These guys come to the NHL and every season the losses start to weigh more because as much as they train in the offseason, there they are again losing. The only way I can see it changing, is if management comes in with a big trade to revitalize things. Bring back some optimism that things are different and you can win again, not rely on bringing in another kid from the draft who has to start learning.

Guys say it at the deadline every year, its a boost to get someone in the locker room with a fresh attitude and who wants to work hard. The Oilers need to shake it up and get a good established player coming in, (regardless of position IMO) to curb the atmosphere in that room, because eventually losing gets to everyone and weighs you down

I don't get why someone would sign in the worst city in north America just because they knew the GM.
- pker2theend

Worst city in North America? You have got to be kidding. Travel around a bit and maybe try living in a few different cities. Not even close.

I think thats the key right there. In juniors, even if youre stuck on a bad team eventually youre going to move on from the league. Top prospect or not, you know that at maximum you'll be in this losing environment until your 20 and you get a fresh start. These guys come to the NHL and every season the losses start to weigh more because as much as they train in the offseason, there they are again losing. The only way I can see it changing, is if management comes in with a big trade to revitalize things. Bring back some optimism that things are different and you can win again, not rely on bringing in another kid from the draft who has to start learning.

Guys say it at the deadline every year, its a boost to get someone in the locker room with a fresh attitude and who wants to work hard. The Oilers need to shake it up and get a good established player coming in, (regardless of position IMO) to curb the atmosphere in that room, because eventually losing gets to everyone and weighs you down
- WhiteLie

Agree with this

Good morning,

A lengthy injury update, other lineup notes and Demko for Hobey Baker, in the new blog.

http://www.hockeybuzz.com...Tryamkin-Debuts/194/75590

I'm curious as to who the pro-playoff folks are? I haven't noticed any one advocating the playoffs, outside from sarcasm.
- Marwood

Its a defensive knee jerk reaction to realists is all. The tankers believe losing guarantees future success. Oxymoron. The real fans just want good hockey n the kids get better win or lose. It all doesn't matter tbh cuz the players will play for jobs n pride. The final standings mean nada. All luck in the lotto or picking wisely. Boesser @ 23OA was a wise pick n that more than anything is what brings future success for an example.

Tippet could be there, but it's hard to justify a coach that hasn't won a significant trophy (president's trophy, conference championship, SCF) when his team isn't in the playoff picture like Hakstol has done with Philly. Hakstol took a lousy team and inserted some order and they are now knocking on the door of the playoffs...
- kaptaan

exactly. good example of what Ive been saying about a coaching staff being the driving force behind the direction of the team...they can make or break the team. Obviously in his case his is making it. You give a team structure and strategy then it succeeds. Especially in the playoffs in a best of 7 series.

And this whole 'winning/losing atmosphere' is a pile o' crap IMO. The reason EDM and TO and a few other teams have been destitute is not because of players becoming accustomed to a 'losing atmoshere'. Players want to win at all costs Thunda and I discussed that a few threads ago. Teams like EDM and especially TO for decades have been destitute because they refused to put proper MNGT and coaching in place for long periods of time. That has basically zero to do with players coming up in a 'losing culture'. Don't buy that at all.

EDM and TO now have much better MNGT and coaching and they will be on the upswing whether we like it or not. That is the culture change those teams need not this players in a losing culture crap.

*Except when talking Kesler...that guy is a natural born loser in almost every way.


- LordHumungous

Lord....yes TO and oilers have better management and coaching now, so why arent they tearing up the league then? This is a good example of the losing culture having a grip on the team. It takes time to shed that. The new management and coaches help shed that too but its going to take time.
If your argument that a losing culture has no merit (and JB disagrees with you btw) then these teams should be successful and playoff bound and not firmly anchored to the basement floor like both are.
Maybe just maybe there is more at play here Lord. Losing and winning pedigrees exist. Losing Particularly in impressionable young men that are handed riches and fame they arent ready for.

Like many other arguments and concepts out there, Just because you dont see it doesnt make it untrue.