Bleh...

try to think 3-5 years down the road not winning a few meaningless games down the stretch this year.

Die hard fans are die hard fans regardless of how they feel on team direction. I for one want the top 5 pick because it's what the team needs more than anything else going forward.

If people want the team to go 12-0 down the stretch and pick 15th good on em I guess...to each their own. But don't b*tch cry and whine in 5 years when we hear all the shoulda woulda coulda players we could have picked in a pretty good draft by missing the top 5.
- LordHumungous

Keep in mind the draft and/or position doesn't guarantee anything.

No point going down this path. I'm sure everyone on an individual level knows where they stand pro-tank/winning/playoffs what have you...not real concerned either way I'm just having some fun poking in a year where there isn't a whole lot of positives other than seeing the kids develop. If the kids win I'm all for it but you can't sit there and tell me that picking 16-25 is going to be better for us rather than top 5 in a pretty good draft coming up where we have needs to fill.
- LordHumungous

We knew this season was coming. I wouldn't say it was a tank. I would say we weren't good, period. Youth. Stale defence. Stale offence. Country club group. Injuries. Inconsistent goaltending. These things are not a recipe for success.

Bleh...

try to think 3-5 years down the road not winning a few meaningless games down the stretch this year.

Die hard fans are die hard fans regardless of how they feel on team direction. I for one want the top 5 pick because it's what the team needs more than anything else going forward.

If people want the team to go 12-0 down the stretch and pick 15th good on em I guess...to each their own. But don't b*tch cry and whine in 5 years when we hear all the shoulda woulda coulda players we could have picked in a pretty good draft by missing the top 5.
- LordHumungous

[/URL]

We knew this season was coming. I wouldn't say it was a tank. I would say we weren't good, period. Youth. Stale defence. Stale offence. Country club group. Injuries. Inconsistent goaltending. These things are not a recipe for success.
- thundachunk

but really it's only been Miller who's been inconsistent sometimes, coming from a person who didn't want him signed to begin with. The amount of shots they've given up should show us how bad the defence is on the team and how bad we are at driving possession into the opposition zone.

Bleh...

try to think 3-5 years down the road not winning a few meaningless games down the stretch this year.

Die hard fans are die hard fans regardless of how they feel on team direction. I for one want the top 5 pick because it's what the team needs more than anything else going forward.

If people want the team to go 12-0 down the stretch and pick 15th good on em I guess...to each their own. But don't b*tch cry and whine in 5 years when we hear all the shoulda woulda coulda players we could have picked in a pretty good draft by missing the top 5.
- LordHumungous

Sit, I want the first ov. And if we lose lots and get it that will be a nice consolation prize. But as far as each game goes I want our individual players to play the best they can, improve their skills and win. Is love to see Bo horvat with a hat trick in every game and markstrom with a 12 shot shut out.

I know we're not going to make the playoffs and if we lose all of the games we have left, then I'm cool with it.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not gonna boo a loss, but I'm also not gonna boo a win.

Going into each game I hope they won them all and finish the season either in the playoffs(not happening) or in last place.

But I want our team to win. If they lose them fine that's OK. But I'm not activity cheering for them to lose like some seem to be doing.

Cheering for a team to lose is the same as booing them if they win

Sit, I want the first ov. And if we lose lots and get it that will be a nice consolation prize. But as far as each game goes I want our individual players to play the best they can, improve their skills and win. Is love to see Bo horvat with a hat trick in every game and markstrom with a 12 shot shut out.

I know we're not going to make the playoffs and if we lose all of the games we have left, then I'm cool with it.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not gonna boo a loss, but I'm also not gonna boo a win.

Going into each game I hope they won them all and finish the season either in the playoffs(not happening) or in last place.

But I want our team to win. If they lose them fine that's OK. But I'm not activity cheering for them to lose like some seem to be doing.

Cheering for a team to lose is the same as booing them if they win

- Pres.cup

Kill Bill 2
- LordHumungous

E.T.
Beetlejuice.

And this whole 'winning/losing atmosphere' is a pile o' crap IMO. The reason EDM and TO and a few other teams have been destitute is not because of players becoming accustomed to a 'losing atmoshere'. Players want to win at all costs Thunda and I discussed that a few threads ago. Teams like EDM and especially TO for decades have been destitute because they refused to put proper MNGT and coaching in place for long periods of time. That has basically zero to do with players coming up in a 'losing culture'. Don't buy that at all.

EDM and TO now have much better MNGT and coaching and they will be on the upswing whether we like it or not. That is the culture change those teams need not this players in a losing culture crap.

*Except when talking Kesler...that guy is a natural born loser in almost every way.


- LordHumungous

I would have said the same awhile ago, but I believe McLellan has even acknowledged the losing atmosphere...quote 2 days ago..

“I used the term insanity because I don’t know if we’re trying to prove the formula for failure, we’ve done that enough. Let’s try something else.

“Pinching and not covering, cheating defensively, giving up odd-numbered rushes to the other team continually is a formula for failure. So let’s try and change that as a group. Let’s leave insanity behind and try apply ourselves somewhere else..

It's also mentioned about the ten years of failure just before this quote...so maybe there is some truth to a losing atmosphere playing a role.

Keep in mind the draft and/or position doesn't guarantee anything.
- Marwood

True of course however picking top 5 as opposed to 15-25 sure give you a nice increase in the odds of a better player.

I'd go so far as to say that is not about winning, it's about competing and trying to win.
Not ever going to cheer for a lose, If we lose, and lose and lose draft 1st ov then I won't feel bad however do I want my team to be worst then the laughs or the soilers? Hell no. If we miss the playoffs would I rather a higher draft pick, yes. Do I think we're gonna make the playoffs, not a chance. Do I want my team to give up and not try to win games? No, win or lose I wanna see some compete out of this squad. Will I ever celebrate a loss, cheer for a loser, hope we lose every game? No, it's pathetic to hope that your team is worst then all the others, it's a sign that you have no hope for the future and would rather meekly tuck your tail between your legs then try.

That being said if we lose every game I won't feel that bad, but I'm not going to hope that our team sucks. I want to see 3 point nights out of the twins every game, JV a Gordie Howe hat trick every game, I want to see our teams defenceman keep the puck out of our end and contribute offensively, every game, I want whichever goalie is in net to pitch a shutout, every (frank)ing game!

To hope for failure is a failure. To understand failure and not be downed by it, is to understand optimism and to embrace hope for the future.

Support your team cheer for the win, when they lose, celebrate the higher draft pick.
But don't enter every game with a hope that your team sucks, suckers.
That would make you no better then those fans we've mocked over the last few years.
- Pres.cup

watch for some backlash... there are some humans on here who take offence if you insult another team by calling them "laffs" or "coilers" or as you did...

i'm pretty sure vintage 70s and ASL are two who have made comments about that in the past... along with some of others...

Sit, I want the first ov. And if we lose lots and get it that will be a nice consolation prize. But as far as each game goes I want our individual players to play the best they can, improve their skills and win. Is love to see Bo horvat with a hat trick in every game and markstrom with a 12 shot shut out.

I know we're not going to make the playoffs and if we lose all of the games we have left, then I'm cool with it.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not gonna boo a loss, but I'm also not gonna boo a win.

Going into each game I hope they won them all and finish the season either in the playoffs(not happening) or in last place.

But I want our team to win. If they lose them fine that's OK. But I'm not activity cheering for them to lose like some seem to be doing.

Cheering for a team to lose is the same as booing them if they win

- Pres.cup

I am in a similar boat, I dont cheer for a loss. Every time I see certain players on the ice, I am hoping they do something good even though I know it takes the dream of Matthews further and further away
I am also holding out hope that this team goes the way of 2006-2007 Flyers, which were unexpectedly bad, got the 2nd overall pick and the next season were back in the ECF the next season and the finals a few short years after that. They didnt tear it down, they didnt keep tanking for a few years. They recognized they had a good core (at the time) with Richards, Carter, added Briere after that bad season and went back to winning. I am hoping Bo, JV, Sven are those guys, and the Sedins can support them pushing back into the race of things. Long shot I know, but heres to dreaming for a good season next year

Friedman's 30 thoughts.

IF LA cannot sign Lucic, one has to think that he will sign in Vancouver. The 2nd but less likely option would by EDM as Lucic has a past history with GM PC.

Sit, I want the first ov. And if we lose lots and get it that will be a nice consolation prize. But as far as each game goes I want our individual players to play the best they can, improve their skills and win. Is love to see Bo horvat with a hat trick in every game and markstrom with a 12 shot shut out.

I know we're not going to make the playoffs and if we lose all of the games we have left, then I'm cool with it.

I guess what I'm saying is I'm not gonna boo a loss, but I'm also not gonna boo a win.

Going into each game I hope they won them all and finish the season either in the playoffs(not happening) or in last place.

But I want our team to win. If they lose them fine that's OK. But I'm not activity cheering for them to lose like some seem to be doing.

Cheering for a team to lose is the same as booing them if they win

- Pres.cup

You just don't get it...(frank) you're a bad fan...cheering that players play to win... The best thing that can happen to this team is Tryamkin trips on his skate lace and smashes his face into the ice and receives a massive concussion, Bo takes a shot to the jaw and shatters it, JV misses a body check and separates his shoulder, Sven get stepped on and lacerates his ligaments...that's what you should be cheering for...winning is for fools...fool.

You just don't get it...(frank) you're a bad fan...cheering that players play to win... The best thing that can happen to this team is Tryamkin trips on his skate lace and smashes his face into the ice and receives a massive concussion, Bo takes a shot to the jaw and shatters it, JV misses a body check and separates his shoulder, Sven get stepped on and lacerates his ligaments...that's what you should be cheering for...winning is for fools...fool.
- Makita

Too soon and too real!

You just don't get it...(frank) you're a bad fan...cheering that players play to win... The best thing that can happen to this team is Tryamkin trips on his skate lace and smashes his face into the ice and receives a massive concussion, Bo takes a shot to the jaw and shatters it, JV misses a body check and separates his shoulder, Sven get stepped on and lacerates his ligaments...that's what you should be cheering for...winning is for fools...fool.
- Makita

[/URL]

Too soon and too real!
- WhiteLie

I know I tried to pick injuries that actually happened...that stupid post is just as valid as wishing to lose

Edit: except tripping on skate lace...

I would have said the same awhile ago, but I believe McLellan has even acknowledged the losing atmosphere...quote 2 days ago..

“I used the term insanity because I don’t know if we’re trying to prove the formula for failure, we’ve done that enough. Let’s try something else.

“Pinching and not covering, cheating defensively, giving up odd-numbered rushes to the other team continually is a formula for failure. So let’s try and change that as a group. Let’s leave insanity behind and try apply ourselves somewhere else..

It's also mentioned about the ten years of failure just before this quote...so maybe there is some truth to a losing atmosphere playing a role.
- Makita

I think for sure one can make an argument for it...however there have been many players that have come to EDM (incl draft picks) in the past 10 years from 'winning cultures' they don't instantly suck just being part of that climate. Was McClellan taking a stab at the existing core? I think so. Hall Eberle Hopkins and a few other core members from a few years past need to step up and lead but to do that they have needed MNGT and coaching to give them the ingredients to do so which they haven't done for 5-10 years. Krueger was an excellent coach IMO and almost had that club turning the corner and they fired him after a few unlucky losses. They have refused to get a top goalie and top 4 D for 10 seasons...I would look much more at that than what's considered a 'losing environment'. I truly believe the players want to win at all costs and of course MNGT can manipulate the lineups to get draft picks...but EDM just like TO have refused to do the things necessary to get their teams back in contention when it comes to MNGT/Coaching/Trades. I do think that is changing in EDM and TO but results are yet to be seen.

If McClellan truly believes the recipe for success in EDM is changing the 'formula for failure' then he has a tough task ahead of him which he knew when he took the job. He is going to have to do what many great coaches have done in the league and coach it out of them.

I think for sure one can make an argument for it...however there have been many players that have come to EDM (incl draft picks) in the past 10 years from 'winning cultures' they don't instantly suck just being part of that climate. Was McClellan taking a stab at the existing core? I think so. Hall Eberle Hopkins and a few other core members from a few years past need to step up and lead but to do that they have needed MNGT and coaching to give them the ingredients to do so which they haven't done for 5-10 years. Krueger was an excellent coach IMO and almost had that club turning the corner and they fired him after a few unlucky losses. They have refused to get a top goalie and top 4 D for 10 seasons...I would look much more at that than what's considered a 'losing environment'. I truly believe the players want to win at all costs and of course MNGT can manipulate the lineups to get draft picks...but EDM just like TO have refused to do the things necessary to get their teams back in contention when it comes to MNGT/Coaching/Trades. I do think that is changing in EDM and TO but results are yet to be seen.

If McClellan truly believes the recipe for success in EDM is changing the 'formula for failure' then he has a tough task ahead of him which he knew when he took the job. He is going to have to do what many great coaches have done in the league and coach it out of them.
- LordHumungous

Totally agree about coaching their way out of their situation, and bringing in PC and TM, I thought at the beginning of the season they would have been better than the canucks whom I pegged at 20th overall. But I have a hard time seeing so many top draft picks on one team and they are still crap, it's more than just the coach.

And using them as an example of picking high, losing for a top pick isn't comforting, as Pres stated go out and play your best every game, if you win good on you, if you lose, oh well.

Totally agree about coaching their way out of their situation, and bringing in PC and TM, I thought at the beginning of the season they would have been better than the canucks whom I pegged at 20th overall. But I have a hard time seeing so many top draft picks on one team and they are still crap, it's more than just the coach.

And using them as an example of picking high, losing for a top pick isn't comforting, as Pres stated go out and play your best every game, if you win good on you, if you lose, oh well.
- Makita

Losing in a poison. A culture that is becoming a problem on teams like edmonton and TO. The best thing they are doing is trying to coach their way out.

Totally agree about coaching their way out of their situation, and bringing in PC and TM, I thought at the beginning of the season they would have been better than the canucks whom I pegged at 20th overall. But I have a hard time seeing so many top draft picks on one team and they are still crap, it's more than just the coach.

And using them as an example of picking high, losing for a top pick isn't comforting, as Pres stated go out and play your best every game, if you win good on you, if you lose, oh well.
- Makita

I think part of the problem is that when your team sucks then you don't have much to cheer for except the prospects, and the very high draft picks often get elevated onto a pedestal before they've ever really accomplished anything, or become complete hockey players.

Those young players read the press or the clippings and start believing they are stars, before they actually are and don't really see the need to change their game. They become more difficult to coach out of bad habits.

Friedman's 30 thoughts.

IF LA cannot sign Lucic, one has to think that he will sign in Vancouver. The 2nd but less likely option would by EDM as Lucic has a past history with GM PC.
- Codes1087

I don't get why someone would sign in the worst city in north America just because they knew the GM.

Bob McKenzie "On the draft, some scouts/GMs I talked to last week were discussing whether Juolevi might displace Tkachuk as consensus No. 4 after Big 3."

I am in a similar boat, I dont cheer for a loss. Every time I see certain players on the ice, I am hoping they do something good even though I know it takes the dream of Matthews further and further away
I am also holding out hope that this team goes the way of 2006-2007 Flyers, which were unexpectedly bad, got the 2nd overall pick and the next season were back in the ECF the next season and the finals a few short years after that. They didnt tear it down, they didnt keep tanking for a few years. They recognized they had a good core (at the time) with Richards, Carter, added Briere after that bad season and went back to winning. I am hoping Bo, JV, Sven are those guys, and the Sedins can support them pushing back into the race of things. Long shot I know, but heres to dreaming for a good season next year
- WhiteLie

It's sad when you are ridiculed by half the fan base for wanting to win a hockey game.

Bob McKenzie "On the draft, some scouts/GMs I talked to last week were discussing whether Juolevi might displace Tkachuk as consensus No. 4 after Big 3."
- MaWLz

I really like Juolevi. I'd be happy if we selected him.

It's sad when you are ridiculed by half the fan base for wanting to win a hockey game.
- Marwood

It's the magic bullet man. 10 years of utter failure means you have a 50% chance of being good again.