I dont know if it makes anyone a bad fan....just its not the right direction. The right direction is smart drafting. and we have the right guy for that for the 1st time.

Tanking has several negative side effects that seem to go over the heads of most fans.
see TO, buffalo and oilers. Its hard to shake

Would never wish that cr*p on my team.
- SMBDragon

I am Pres. Cup and I support this message

Agreed.

I mostly buy from the vintages section to try new bottles, usually in the $17-$22 range. I've found that Chianti's are usually the easiest to pick out a quality bottle without know much/anything about the producer. One thing about Chianti's is to ALWAYS make sure that the black rooster seal is on the bottle. This proves authenticity and has been approved by the wine makers guild in the region. Any Chianti that is 91+ is usually excellent IMO.
- As_I_See_It

We always drink the heavy reds, but I'll try a Chianti if recommended. My wife only likes big reds.

I dont know if it makes anyone a bad fan....just its not the right direction. The right direction is smart drafting. and we have the right guy for that for the 1st time.

Tanking has several negative side effects that seem to go over the heads of most fans.
see TO, buffalo and oilers. Its hard to shake

Would never wish that cr*p on my team.
- SMBDragon

You're absolutely right!




... But there's nothing wrong with wanting the best odds possible for your first and most important pick.

You're absolutely right!




... But there's nothing wrong with wanting the best odds possible for your first and most important pick.
- As_I_See_It

you didnt see the rest of the post?....yes there is a ton wrong with that... ask oilers and leafs fans. It spirals out of control and gets into a 10-20 year funk. No thanks
Rather just do good with the picks ya got


oh AND proper development

We always drink the heavy reds, but I'll try a Chianti if recommended. My wife only likes big reds.
- Scooby_Doo

Your top 5 pick prediction isn't looking good....these kids refuse to tank

Your top 5 pick prediction isn't looking good....these kids refuse to tank
- CanuckDon

I still see it happening.

crap... arizona winning....no progress on final wild card.

I still see it happening.
- Scooby_Doo

does that make you an optimist or pessimist?

I can't be upset when we see a good effort from the club.

I still see it happening.
- Scooby_Doo

They are too good to tank...as much as a top 5 pick would be excellent, we will find a good prospect in the 8-12 range

We need to tank way better lol

We need pick 4 at min

They are too good to tank...as much as a top 5 pick would be excellent, we will find a good prospect in the 8-12 range
- CanuckDon

Pick 4 and we get Chychrun
Trade something for Hamonic nit named Edler Tanev horvat sven or demko. Add Virtanen to that.

Maybe McCann Markstrom and a 2nd? Boeser instead or markstrom?

If our de can be

Tanev Edler Hamonic Hutton Chychrun tryamkin and sbisa I'd be thrilled

you didnt see the rest of the post?....yes there is a ton wrong with that... ask oilers and leafs fans. It spirals out of control and gets into a 10-20 year funk. No thanks
Rather just do good with the picks ya got


oh AND proper development
- SMBDragon

You couldn't be more wrong about Toronto.

Sorry man, but what the Oilers have done for the past 6/7 years is COMPLETELY different from what Shanny/Lou/Babs started just last season. I'm sure that an uncalled for "1967" joke will be fired back, but nobody in Toronto is worried about what you're suggesting, "a bad message to the players that spirals out of control."

Whether you believe it or not, despite the standings their is an optimism and buzz about the direction this team is headed. For the first time in ages, a competent management group is at the helm, with a plan and has executed near perfectly so far:
- A number of the old regime's mistake have been dealt with (i.e. Kessel, Phaneuf and Clarkson)
- Cap management has been excellent in order to provide options and pick up assets (i.e. taking on contracts for picks and prospects)
- Completely revamped the scouting department and it appears that it's paying off with a few of the later picks
- Not rushing players and developing from within

Have you seen a few of the Leafs' prospects like Nylander, Soshnikov, Carrick, Hyman, Loov and Sparks? Most of these kids made their NHL debuts last week and have looked great. Add guys like Marner, Brown, Timashov, Harrington, Lindberg, Nielsen, a top 5 pick this season and the poop load of picks accumulated over the next few years and you have an excellent pipeline to work with and take time developing.

Sorry brother, the Leafs are in good shape moving forward and nobody is worried about the baseless BS you're suggesting.

As for the Oilers, who the (frank) knows what's going on there anymore.

They are too good to tank...as much as a top 5 pick would be excellent, we will find a good prospect in the 8-12 range
- CanuckDon

8-12 ???

The absolute worst they will pick is 8th. More than likely 5-6 with outside chance at top 3 obviously.

You know after a while it takes it toll. The stupid trade offers, lineup predictions, some including outlandish trades or signings... It just gets old.
Not to mention throw in the trolling from other teams, many of which have awful teams to cheer for.

Here we are on a Saturday night and I'd rather watch a Hugh grant movie then the Canucks vs predators. Monday I'm playing tennis instead of sitting front row to watch the Canucks.

It's always been hockey all the time for me, but it's pretty depressing right now, wishing for your team to lose. I feel like I need a shrink, at least a shoulder to cry on. Yet it continues on here, same characters doing the same schtick over and over, it's taxing to say that least.
- Scooby_Doo

Pick 4 and we get Chychrun
Trade something for Hamonic nit named Edler Tanev horvat sven or demko. Add Virtanen to that.

Maybe McCann Markstrom and a 2nd? Boeser instead or markstrom?

If our de can be

Tanev Edler Hamonic Hutton Chychrun tryamkin and sbisa I'd be thrilled
- The_Kuze

terrible....How can you even consider trading markstrom? He our new starter and good talent. Boeser is valuable too us as well. You dont trade 2 young assets with that much talent that are showing they are the real deal. Esp goalies.

Id suggest Tanev as his value through the league is shown as high. Also because he doesnt really add talents we need like physical play etc. We may have to include something as well...Tanev + a 2nd for hamonic? That is IF he'd come here

You couldn't be more wrong about Toronto.

Sorry man, but what the Oilers have done for the past 6/7 years is COMPLETELY different from what Shanny/Lou/Babs started just last season. I'm sure that an uncalled for "1967" joke will be fired back, but nobody in Toronto is worried about what you're suggesting, "a bad message to the players that spirals out of control."

Whether you believe it or not, despite the standings their is an optimism and buzz about the direction this team is headed. For the first time in ages, a competent management group is at the helm, with a plan and has executed near perfectly so far:
- A number of the old regime's mistake have been dealt with (i.e. Kessel, Phaneuf and Clarkson)
- Cap management has been excellent in order to provide options and pick up assets (i.e. taking on contracts for picks and prospects)
- Completely revamped the scouting department and it appears that it's paying off with a few of the later picks
- Not rushing players and developing from within

Have you seen a few of the Leafs' prospects like Nylander, Soshnikov, Carrick, Hyman, Loov and Sparks? Most of these kids made their NHL debuts last week and have looked great. Add guys like Marner, Brown, Timashov, Harrington, Lindberg, Nielsen, a top 5 pick this season and the poop load of picks accumulated over the next few years and you have an excellent pipeline to work with and take time developing.

Sorry brother, the Leafs are in good shape moving forward and nobody is worried about the baseless BS you're suggesting.

As for the Oilers, who the (frank) knows what's going on there anymore.
- As_I_See_It

I agree with most of this, unfortunately for leaf fans, because you delayed(burke years) for so long before doing what most fans of other teams knew you had to do, you must wear the cloak of shame until the plan is complete.

Short version; Your past will haunt your present and shroud the future.

You couldn't be more wrong about Toronto.

Sorry man, but what the Oilers have done for the past 6/7 years is COMPLETELY different from what Shanny/Lou/Babs started just last season. I'm sure that an uncalled for "1967" joke will be fired back, but nobody in Toronto is worried about what you're suggesting, "a bad message to the players that spirals out of control."

Whether you believe it or not, despite the standings their is an optimism and buzz about the direction this team is headed. For the first time in ages, a competent management group is at the helm, with a plan and has executed near perfectly so far:
- A number of the old regime's mistake have been dealt with (i.e. Kessel, Phaneuf and Clarkson)
- Cap management has been excellent in order to provide options and pick up assets (i.e. taking on contracts for picks and prospects)
- Completely revamped the scouting department and it appears that it's paying off with a few of the later picks
- Not rushing players and developing from within

Have you seen a few of the Leafs' prospects like Nylander, Soshnikov, Carrick, Hyman, Loov and Sparks? Most of these kids made their NHL debuts last week and have looked great. Add guys like Marner, Brown, Timashov, Harrington, Lindberg, Nielsen, a top 5 pick this season and the poop load of picks accumulated over the next few years and you have an excellent pipeline to work with and take time developing.

Sorry brother, the Leafs are in good shape moving forward and nobody is worried about the baseless BS you're suggesting.

As for the Oilers, who the (frank) knows what's going on there anymore.
- As_I_See_It

you missed my point completely apparently. I am not saying the leafs are going nowhere, Im pointing to the 20 yrs of junk and losing they just went through. History is history and undeniable.
I do believe the leafs are making the right moves in many ways NOW....and I did see soshnikov....looked great.

I'm talking about what tanking and continued losing does to a franchise.....those teams are proof of that. You see now?

I agree with most of this, unfortunately for leaf fans, because you delayed(burke years) for so long before doing what most fans of other teams knew you had to do, you must wear the cloak of shame until the plan is complete.

Short version; Your past will haunt your present and shroud the future.
- Pres.cup

well said. Thats exactly what tanking does and why we as fans should NOT be approving a tank.

Preds 5-2, canucks loose it in the 3rd with an empty net goal at the 4:20 mark...sound familiar
- Makita

4:20 sounds about right.

well said. Thats exactly what tanking does and why we as fans should NOT be approving a tank.
- SMBDragon

I don't think anyone here is approving a tank, we are just cheering for losses. There is a huge difference. Leafs are clearly tanking, we are not even close to doing that.

I agree with most of this, unfortunately for leaf fans, because you delayed(burke years) for so long before doing what most fans of other teams knew you had to do, you must wear the cloak of shame until the plan is complete.

Short version; Your past will haunt your present and shroud the future.
- Pres.cup

Leafs fans are loyal to a fault. There's no shame in sticking with your team through thick and thin... Which is what will make winning (when that finally happens... and it will!) that much sweeter.

The past is the past and that's where it will stay - The "culture" of this organization is changing and the present group is optimistic about the future.

Make no mistake about it, the Canucks have worn their own cloaks too.

Leafs fans are loyal to a fault. There's no shame in sticking with your team through thick and thin... Which is what will make winning (when that finally happens... and it will!) that much sweeter.

The past is the past and that's where it will stay - The "culture" of this organization is changing and the present group is optimistic about the future.

Make no mistake about it, the Canucks have worn their own cloaks too.
- As_I_See_It

We'll see in a few years about how many Toronto fans will like the losing....its easy to say you like the direction the current management team is taking but what happens if the youngsters don't turn out and plateau or not? Careful what you wish for.

We won...I'm drunk and happy!

I don't think anyone here is approving a tank, we are just cheering for losses. There is a huge difference. Leafs are clearly tanking, we are not even close to doing that.
- Scooby_Doo

how is cheering for losses not fan approval of a tank? I dont see any case made for that statement. I dont see any difference....

Leafs fans are loyal to a fault. There's no shame in sticking with your team through thick and thin... Which is what will make winning (when that finally happens... and it will!) that much sweeter.

The past is the past and that's where it will stay - The "culture" of this organization is changing and the present group is optimistic about the future.

Make no mistake about it, the Canucks have worn their own cloaks too.
- As_I_See_It

The leafs have lost a lot of fans the last 10 years, a lot more than you'd ever admit. It's been pretty ugly there, the losing has definitely taken its toll.