Im not complaining about Letang dips!it. Just saying he has a lot of talent and a 1 timer isn't one of them.

Crying about Kessel not being able to 1 time and a bunch of nerds using charts suggesting he use a stiffer stick is about the dumbest thing. He's never been good at it. Its like asking Mccutcheon to be a better HR hitter. Not his game bro.
- sammy87

So his whole career starting with the US National development program, U of Minnesota, NHL, and US Olympic teams some would say he has been pretty damn successful.... until now.... when the Penguins aren't winning ?
All of a sudden he sucks because he isn't scoring on one-timers from Crosby??
Does that not sound s little odd to you???
- MiloslavHorava

You didn't answer what other top 6 Fs are incapable of one timing. And you keep equivocating the argument into Kessel being a bad player because he doesn't have an elite one timer. Asking him to sacrifice a little less flex for the sake of having an at least adequate one timer is not unreasonable despite your efforts to make it appear so.

why sullivan makes sheary sit for kuhnackle I don't get...

You didn't answer what other top 6 Fs are incapable of one timing. And you keep equivocating the argument into Kessel being a bad player because he doesn't have an elite one timer. Asking him to sacrifice a little less flex for the sake of having an at least adequate one timer is not unreasonable despite your efforts to make it appear so.
- jfkst1

You didn't answer my question about how many one-timers you would be able to accurately place on net if I were passing you the puck

Your ignoring the fact that you have been told by numerous people on this thread.. that is not part of his skill set. There are TONS of guys in the NHL that are not good at doing it, but YOU think its a simple task.

According to your post above the simple fix is.. getting a stick with less flex. Again the STICK does not make you successful. but you are flashing your lack of knowledge here again.

I'll leave it at this, because you've already proven my point in terms of hockey knowledge when you said a 70 flex stick, cut down would be even more flexible...
What was the highest level of competitive hockey you played at?
Would you be willing to record yourself on the ice taking one timers from hard passes and post it for all to see since its so simple, .... all you need is a stick with stiff flex.

If not this argument is over. You are refusing to listen to people who have actually PLAYED the game and have told you its not as easy as some extremely gifted athletes make it look

Is there a mic drop Emoji on this damn thing!!?

I tried playing with some low flex sticks in the past.... better luck playing with a wet noodle

I understand that flex gets him 30 goals a year, 8 million dollars in the bank.... but it might be time to move up to an 80, 85 like someone who is past peewee.

one timers are out of the question , you cannot take a slap shot to save your life, you cant clear the puck right, you cant utilize one the best passers the game has ever seen in a correct way

In toronto it was fine becaue he was the quarter back starting off with the puck.... well now he is the 3rd-4th wide receiver... might want to change it up
- nightmare3020

It all depends on the player...sure maybe this is true of Kessell...but Brett Hull uesd a low flex stick and had one of the greatest one timers of all time.

It all depends on the player...sure maybe this is true of Kessell...but Brett Hull uesd a low flex stick and had one of the greatest one times of all time.
- icedog97

Hull was reported to have used a 65 flex

Well... learned that no good or even decent seats are cheap for Sunday games for the last two ~_~. Good thing I am getting a paycheck again


Also have learned my date for this game will remove her cursing bann for "that pig, Ovechkin". This will be hilarious.

It all depends on the player...sure maybe this is true of Kessell...but Brett Hull uesd a low flex stick and had one of the greatest one times of all time.
- icedog97

Overchkin used a 79 in 2008-2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV4vHQi81is

Not being good at it and not being capable due to equipment decisions are two very different things.
- jfkst1

That's the thing though, he IS CAPABLE of doing it with his current equipment decisions but he's just not all that good at it. This notion that he is incapable of doing it with his current stick choice is unfounded and completely inaccurate. A quick internet search turned up these video clips of Kessel one-timing the puck for a goal, the first 2 are pretty much the exact same shot he missed against the Isles at the end of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3UR8aoyLmE
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=581202

and just so there's something current here's one of him one-timing a puck while with the Pens and this one he one-times from his natural side which can be a very difficlut thing to do.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=581202

You didn't answer my question about how many one-timers you would be able to accurately place on net if I were passing you the puck

Your ignoring the fact that you have been told by numerous people on this thread.. that is not part of his skill set. There are TONS of guys in the NHL that are not good at doing it, but YOU think its a simple task.

According to your post above the simple fix is.. getting a stick with less flex. Again the STICK does not make you successful. but you are flashing your lack of knowledge here again.

I'll leave it at this, because you've already proven my point in terms of hockey knowledge when you said a 70 flex stick, cut down would be even more flexible...
What was the highest level of competitive hockey you played at?
Would you be willing to record yourself on the ice taking one timers from hard passes and post it for all to see since its so simple, .... all you need is a stick with stiff flex.

If not this argument is over. You are refusing to listen to people who have actually PLAYED the game and have told you its not as easy as some extremely gifted athletes make it look

Is there a mic drop Emoji on this damn thing!!?
- MiloslavHorava

Well if you were passing probably zero because you have probably never played before. As a professional in his sports I think that he has the figurative tools to perform that task. He doesn't have the literal one. I never used any composite sticks because they didn't have them when I played.

That's the thing though, he IS CAPABLE of doing it with his current equipment decisions but he's just not all that good at it. This notion that he is incapable of doing it with his current stick choice is unfounded and completely inaccurate. A quick internet search turned up these video clips of Kessel one-timing the puck for a goal, the first 2 are pretty much the exact same shot he missed against the Isles at the end of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3UR8aoyLmE
http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=581202

and just so there's something current here's one of him one-timing a puck while with the Pens and this one he one-times from his natural side which can be a very difficlut thing to do.

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/console?id=581202
- jaydogg1974

And that confirms that it is 100% his equipment and not his complete inability to do one like some are arguing.

Well if you were passing probably zero because you have probably never played before. As a professional in his sports I think that he has the figurative tools to perform that task. He doesn't have the literal one. I never used any composite sticks because they didn't have them when I played.
- jfkst1

Thanks for proving my point by not answering. its obvious your 30+ beer league is not something you are proud of. For the record I played through college and practiced in the summer time with pros who stayed in NY over the summer.

Here is an article form 2 years ago about how tailor made Kessel's stick is... this may blow your mind but he has a stick tailor made to best maximize his skill set and shot which is NOT the one Timer.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/544713

But if you want your team to pay the guy all that money and do something that is not part of his game because you stubbornly think he should, good luck. That's like signing a point guard and saying.. we already have a good point guard, so why don't you go play a power game in the low post even though its not your game because that's what I want you to do.

Thanks for proving my point by not answering. its obvious your 30+ beer league is not something you are proud of. For the record I played through college and practiced in the summer time with pros who stayed in NY over the summer.

Here is an article form 2 years ago about how tailor made Kessel's stick is... this may blow your mind but he has a stick tailor made to best maximize his skill set and shot which is NOT the one Timer.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/544713

But if you want your team to pay the guy all that money and do something that is not part of his game because you stubbornly think he should, good luck. That's like signing a point guard and saying.. we already have a good point guard, so why don't you go play a power game in the low post even though its not your game because that's what I want you to do.
- MiloslavHorava

So... are you against him using a firmer stick for just the powerplay, since we run the PP to be more prone to having one timers?

Thanks for proving my point by not answering. its obvious your 30+ beer league is not something you are proud of. For the record I played through college and practiced in the summer time with pros who stayed in NY over the summer.

Here is an article form 2 years ago about how tailor made Kessel's stick is... this may blow your mind but he has a stick tailor made to best maximize his skill set and shot which is NOT the one Timer.

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/544713

But if you want your team to pay the guy all that money and do something that is not part of his game because you stubbornly think he should, good luck. That's like signing a point guard and saying.. we already have a good point guard, so why don't you go play a power game in the low post even though its not your game because that's what I want you to do.
- MiloslavHorava

I don't play hockey anymore. I'm too old and broken from the Army to do that stuff anymore.
Wilson also played college hockey and has the same opinion I have. And some of the contributors on Pensburgh play college hockey now and don't find this opinion to be illogical. But I guess your opinion is above all theirs...
Again your analogies go wrong. It's like asking Chris Bosh to adjust his game with the Heat.
Pointing all this out is not an indictment of Kessel. It's a reality that should be considered. Is his current playing style compatible and ideal for this team if he can't adjust? At the very least other options should be explored before being disregarded like you are doing.

So... are you against him using a firmer stick for just the powerplay, since we run the PP to be more prone to having one timers?
- Guile

I'm obviously not a Pens fan, but I would put him on ANOTHER unit, OR put him in a spot where he is using the shots that HE uses best. Its not his forte, its clear, so why expect him to magically do it all of a sudden?
Changing his stick flex, now he has to think about which stick he is taking out on the ice, and get the feel for shooting with two different sticks. The players sticks are soo tailored to them individually its just not plausible.

So... are you against him using a firmer stick for just the powerplay, since we run the PP to be more prone to having one timers?
- Guile

Put him on the 2nd PP and have it run through him. Give him some scrubs and he will get it back.

As for changing the stick? It's a mental thing. His stick is fine.

I'm obviously not a Pens fan, but I would put him on ANOTHER unit, OR put him in a spot where he is using the shots that HE uses best. Its not his forte, its clear, so why expect him to magically do it all of a sudden?
Changing his stick flex, now he has to think about which stick he is taking out on the ice, and get the feel for shooting with two different sticks. The players sticks are soo tailored to them individually its just not plausible.
- MiloslavHorava

So... good luck being a coach and putting the high priced Kessel on the 2nd unit. Not that that doesn't make sense, but if it doesn't work right away, its one of those career suicide moves.

I don't play hockey anymore. I'm too old and broken from the Army to do that stuff anymore.
Wilson also played college hockey and has the same opinion I have. And some of the contributors on Pensburgh play college hockey now and don't find this opinion to be illogical. But I guess your opinion is above all theirs...
Again your analogies go wrong. It's like asking Chris Bosh to adjust his game with the Heat.
Pointing all this out is not an indictment of Kessel. It's a reality that should be considered. Is his current playing style compatible and ideal for this team if he can't adjust? At the very least other options should be explored before being disregarded like you are doing.
- jfkst1

Chris Bosch didn't change his equipment! Chris Bosch was asked to take a LESSER role in the offense dude! He had his skills as a rebounder and defensive player. They did ask him to all of a sudden start taking 3 pointers!!


Again you are blaming a guy who has been very successful in his career who your organization chose to bring here because they are losing.
They knew full well what he is good at and what he isn't, would you bring Jagr back and tell him to play the point on the power play and tell him to only take slapshots??

So... good luck being a coach and putting the high priced Kessel on the 2nd unit. Not that that doesn't make sense, but if it doesn't work right away, its one of those career suicide moves.
- Guile

Serious question ... the Pens split up Malkin and Crosby, how is that any different?
Every team has 2 PP units. sometimes one goes cold, most times those two units run two completely different systems to cater to the players ability on each unit. (Box and one vs Umbrella)

Serious question ... the Pens split up Malkin and Crosby, how is that any different?
Every team has 2 PP units. sometimes one goes cold, most times those two units run two completely different systems to cater to the players ability on each unit. (Box and one vs Umbrella)
- MiloslavHorava

Crosby and Malkin are both Centers.... Kessel is a winger.

That is pretty simple dude.

Look at it this way... When we first got Kessel, some thought of the option of giving him to the 3rd line, in the concept of "you can never match up against Pitt with 3 stars on 3 lines". Great in theory no? Now, what if there is a two week stretch of bad performance... what will be blamed first? "Why the (frank) is Kessel not with two of the top centers in the world to generate offense? blah blah rabble rabble rabble".


If splitting them up fails, that will hurt the coach so much for that decision, and Sullivan has already dropped from the NHL to the AHL once.

Chris Bosch didn't change his equipment! Chris Bosch was asked to take a LESSER role in the offense dude! He had his skills as a rebounder and defensive player. They did ask him to all of a sudden start taking 3 pointers!!


Again you are blaming a guy who has been very successful in his career who your organization chose to bring here because they are losing.
They knew full well what he is good at and what he isn't, would you bring Jagr back and tell him to play the point on the power play and tell him to only take slapshots??
- MiloslavHorava

I never said management was absolved. It appears they, and plenty of fans like myself, have miscalculated this. If Kessel is a 20/50 player then Oshie, Frolik, Beleskey, etc. probably all would have been more ideal additions. Played usage with Kessel could be better too. But with his NTC they need to try doing something different. And claiming there is no point in trying something else is what I would expect a Rags fan to want. And your team hasn't won a SC in 22 years either so you ain't exactly winners.

Crosby and Malkin are both Centers.... Kessel is a winger.

That is pretty simple dude.

Look at it this way... When we first got Kessel, some thought of the option of giving him to the 3rd line, in the concept of "you can never match up against Pitt with 3 stars on 3 lines". Great in theory no? Now, what if there is a two week stretch of bad performance... what will be blamed first? "Why the (frank) is Kessel not with two of the top centers in the world to generate offense? blah blah rabble rabble rabble".


If splitting them up fails, that will hurt the coach so much for that decision, and Sullivan has already dropped from the NHL to the AHL once.
- Guile

I know they are both centers but they play them together often when they need to, they are on the same units on the PP from games I have seen as well. I don't think Kessel should be on a THIRD line, that is clearly not for him. but it is obviously not working where he is, so instead of doing the insane thing (doing something over and over and expecting a different result) try changing it up.

I mean.. the pens have gone through their fair share of coaches over the years, what another one anyway?

My opinion is.. its not working, try something else, put him in a different scenario to maximize his skills or else you are wasting his talent.

We can agree to disagree, that's the joy of all this, we can all have our own opinions.

Serious question ... the Pens split up Malkin and Crosby, how is that any different?
Every team has 2 PP units. sometimes one goes cold, most times those two units run two completely different systems to cater to the players ability on each unit. (Box and one vs Umbrella)
- MiloslavHorava

Yeah and that PP sucked and was a stated reason in getting Johnston fired. Kessel on the 2nd unit is a fine idea because I think a PP1 without him should be tried out. It might improve the unit.

I know they are both centers but they play them together often when they need to, they are on the same units on the PP from games I have seen as well. I don't think Kessel should be on a THIRD line, that is clearly not for him. but it is obviously not working where he is, so instead of doing the insane thing (doing something over and over and expecting a different result) try changing it up.

I mean.. the pens have gone through their fair share of coaches over the years, what another one anyway?

My opinion is.. its not working, try something else, put him in a different scenario to maximize his skills or else you are wasting his talent.

We can agree to disagree, that's the joy of all this, we can all have our own opinions.



- MiloslavHorava

I don't particularly disagree with changing some things, I'm giving you the scenario from a coach's perspective, on why doing those kind of changes can heavily backfire if they don't work.

I never said management was absolved. It appears they, and plenty of fans like myself, have miscalculated this. If Kessel is a 20/50 player then Frolik, Beleskey, etc. probably all would have been more ideal additions. Played usage with Kessel could be better too. But with his NTC they need to try doing something different. And claiming there is no point in trying something else is what I would expect a Rags fan to want. And your team hasn't won a SC in 22 years either so you ain't exactly winners either.
- jfkst1

That wasn't very nice at all!
We weren't going there, we were having a nice debate on the uses of Phil Kessel.
See you on Sunday