- homiedclown

It did? The only thing that really matters at the end of the day are Stanley Cups. Of which you haven't won since before the Sabres came into the league.

I know, I know. The Sabres don't have any either. But I'm also not sitting here saying that our strategy over the past 2 decades used to "work" either.
- HonkFortheGoose

90% playoffs with a couple stints as legitimate contenders. You have to understand - I'm an analyst and I'm trying not to base a "working strategy" on profit(can I write for pages here?? lol), but the fact is - if you build a contender you can still fail to win a cup - but the on ice product is still a success.

The Canucks were top notch for a good 2-4 seasons and came within a game of winning the cup. We can't call them a failure because they didn't win it. That was still an awesome time for the Canucks and their fans.

And none with a skill level of Kessel or Phaneuf
- stashu

You seem to forget that the Leafs finished 29th,23rd, 22nd, and 26th overall with Kessel and Phaneuf...lol ... If this team stayed healthy we would be around 25th. right now we are choosing 2nd overall... but a 2-3 game win streak and we are at 26th range... I see no difference.

If you haven't noticed, Leafs management doesn't care about where they finish. They are going for quantity over quality. Looking all possible ways to add draft picks. UFAs, current players under contract and creating cap space to take on bad contracts for picks... this is a genuine rebuild, not tank job.

Our lineup right now has 75% of its roster on IR or suspended.

and since when is bringing in the best head coach tanking??

There's no clear, obvious line between tanking and rebuilding. IMO, it's more a question of emphasis. Trades designed primarily to make the team less competitive in the short term to secure a better draft pick seems more like tanking.

Trades designed primarily to acquire picks, prospects or cap space to be used to improve the team over the longer term seems more like rebuilding. Obviously these kind of trades tend to do both so it's a judgement call.

The Leafs have been very focussed on draft and development and the hiring of Mark Hunter reflects the value they put on drafting. The lottery system doesn't guarantee anything and there's no McDavid in this year's draft so the value of finishing last is not that significant.
- Canada Cup

The funny part about the last paragraph you wrote, is that Tim Murray is exactly the same kind of guy. His background has been and always will be focused on scouting and drafting. He's a self admitted rink rat.

This is a distinction without a difference.
- Der Kaiser

Excellent use of cliches but you have it backwards. There is a difference but not a significant one.

Any leaf fan who believes what that organization has been doing from the middle of last season is any different than what the sabres have done is completely delusional. This is where the toronto media comes in, delusional homerism at its most biased.

I wanted to come in and gas this baby up but it is actually nice to see some objective, reasonable leaf fans in here.

With that said, the leafs are just late to the party, i hope they slide as far as possible in the draft and stamkos poops on them in the offseason

90% playoffs with a couple stints as legitimate contenders. You have to understand - I'm an analyst and I'm trying not to base a "working strategy" on profit(can I write for pages here?? lol), but the fact is - if you build a contender you can still fail to win a cup - but the on ice product is still a success.

The Canucks were top notch for a good 2-4 seasons and came within a game of winning the cup. We can't call them a failure because they didn't win it. That was still an awesome time for the Canucks and their fans.
- Allan Bester

The Sabres have had plenty of runs like that as well. Every team goes through times like that during it's history. If you're an analyst, you probably understand that anyway, since it's the law of averages.

A good portion of success in any professional sports league is also just luck. It's the "right place, right time" type of thing.

The funny part about the last paragraph you wrote, is that Tim Murray is exactly the same kind of guy. His background has been and always will be focused on scouting and drafting. He's a self admitted rink rat.
- HonkFortheGoose

I wasn't really commenting on Buffalo last year as I couldn't really assess the trades they made. It seems to me that the biggest sin wasn't really tanking as much as losing out on McDavid.

Excellent use of cliches but you have it backwards. There is a difference but not a significant one.
- Canada Cup

Sorry bud. Taste the bitter anguish of utter, complete and public wrongness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...tion_without_a_difference

Kessel and Phaneuf were both traded prior to or during the season. Rumours swirling about other players like Kadri and Reimer.

Its exactly the same thing...its 100% a double standard that has been applied by a lot of the media...just let the teams tank. It is smart asset management and it is in the best interest of both of these teams to do what they did.

I have no issue with what either team has done as a non leaf or sabre fan.
- Joel_Eh

Why can't this logical, not-hard-to-comprehend viewpoint be shared by the masses?

The Toronto Media is ridiculous and stupid. Simple.

I like what Buffalo has done, and am hoping we look similar in a couple of seasons.
- SolidGoldBricks

If we look similar to Buffalo in 2 years then our rebuild has completely failed.

If we look similar to Buffalo in 2 years then our rebuild has completely failed.
- djamon

If buffalo looks like buffalo in 2 years it will be a complete failure

Christ. I listen to them even less. Have no interest what's going on out west
- walshyleafsfan

The Buffalo News ripped the team as well.

And I could not have cared less, myself.

You seem to forget that the Leafs finished 29th,23rd, 22nd, and 26th overall with Kessel and Phaneuf...lol ... If this team stayed healthy we would be around 25th. right now we are choosing 2nd overall... but a 2-3 game win streak and we are at 26th range... I see no difference.

If you haven't noticed, Leafs management doesn't care about where they finish. They are going for quantity over quality. Looking all possible ways to add draft picks. UFAs, current players under contract and creating cap space to take on bad contracts for picks... this is a genuine rebuild, not tank job.

Our lineup right now has 75% of its roster on IR or suspended.

and since when is bringing in the best head coach tanking??
- StanleyCupDreams

Babcock was something that had to happen when it did. There's nothing that says he would have been available in 2 or 3 years when your rebuild is closer to completion. I would also argue that he's not the best. I think Quenneville would have something to say about that.

As far as the rest, it's fine. We get it. We were in exactly the same boat. But when we made moves the last 2 years like you guys are now, we were shunned and said to be a disgrace to the NHL. Yet when the Leafs do it, it's moves made with integrity.

The funny part about the last paragraph you wrote, is that Tim Murray is exactly the same kind of guy. His background has been and always will be focused on scouting and drafting. He's a self admitted rink rat.
- HonkFortheGoose

Rink rat reminds me of Rat Fink.

Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

If buffalo looks like buffalo in 2 years it will be a complete failure
- Sabresfan-365

Hello 365.

Excellent use of cliches but you have it backwards. There is a difference but not a significant one.
- Canada Cup

Sigh.

Hello 365.
- Der Kaiser

Hallo Kaiser

Sorry bud. Taste the bitter anguish of utter, complete and public wrongness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...tion_without_a_difference
- Der Kaiser

If I agreed with your conclusion that there is no difference between the two approaches then you might be right. But I don't and you're not.

Hallo Kaiser
- Sabresfan-365

You must be a socialist.

If I agreed with your conclusion that there is no difference between the two approaches then you might be right. But I don't and you're not.
- Canada Cup

Your analysis is superficial and incomplete.

You must be a socialist.
- Der Kaiser

Thought the german would be a nice touch

You hit it on the head. It's not us (Sabres fans) faulting Toronto for tanking, it's the ridiculousness in the denials of it.

I can "defend" the moves Buffalo made last year (dumping pending FAs, the final goalie after 2 were moved playing better than those that were traded away, etc), but the point isn't the teams tanking, it's the lack of ridicule for Toronto in the media.
- stashu

Did you literally just type these words together: "...it's the lack of ridicule for Toronto in the media."?!

Thought the german would be a nice touch
- Sabresfan-365

When a German says hello with an A, there is only one L.
(and oddly enough, it sounds a lot like "aloha").

Your analysis is superficial and incomplete.
- Der Kaiser

But you see nothink. You know nothink