Babcock was something that had to happen when it did. There's nothing that says he would have been available in 2 or 3 years when your rebuild is closer to completion. I would also argue that he's not the best. I think Quenneville would have something to say about that.

As far as the rest, it's fine. We get it. We were in exactly the same boat. But when we made moves the last 2 years like you guys are now, we were shunned and said to be a disgrace to the NHL. Yet when the Leafs do it, it's moves made with integrity.
- HonkFortheGoose

Babcock is overrated and will be exposed when he's in the same position as Carlyle, the guy before him, and the guy before him...

Maybe your definition of tanking just means being bad?
Cause for sure there would be a ton of teams included in that

Oilers tore it down and started selling assets deadline 2010.
Got hall
Tanked all 2011
Got nuge

Actually tried to win beyond that (started actually signing free agents - secondary ones- but they were the only ones that would come) and never actually finished last again. They just won the lottery twice

Sabres tore it down 2014
Got reinhart
Tanked all 2015
Got eichel

Actually trying to win now...
- HB77

Edmonton willfully not addressing defensive issues puts them squarely in the tanking category. Buffalo icing an impressively bad team last year and hiding Pysyk in the AHL puts us there. We're both guilty of it, but it's a legit way of rebuilding. Most fans admit that their team has done it, but to try and spin things so it looks like your team (speaking about fans in general) just happens to be this bad, is disingenuous.

No....... I said the roster sucks on purpose just like the Sabres did last year. Not the players trying to lose. The formation of the players.
- bluengold12

It was the way you worded it. The second sentence about talent. The similarity between Buffalo last year and Toronto this year are about as spot on as you could get. The team was basically constructed to fail. The only thing that really is different is the coach. Babcock and Nolan couldn't possibly be further apart.

The only thing i guess i am jealous of is Toronto next year will have.

Lucic
Tavares
Stamkos
Subban

to ease the pain.
- ImThatGuy

MTL dmen don't waive to go to TO. NMC July 1st

Id make the argument that our tear down began in 12-13. I mean if it was a full season we probably end up somewhere in the bottom 5 or even 3.
- Sabresfan-365

My argument against that is they felt they could patch together a team that could squeak into the playoffs like they had many times before. When that plan fell totally on it's face, they didn't have a choice anymore. By the end of that year, you're correct. They had begun the process, but it was very minimal in comparison.

Edmonton willfully not addressing defensive issues puts them squarely in the tanking category. Buffalo icing an impressively bad team last year and hiding Pysyk in the AHL puts us there. We're both guilty of it, but it's a legit way of rebuilding. Most fans admit that their team has done it, but to try and spin things so it looks like your team (speaking about fans in general) just happens to be this bad, is disingenuous.
- sskkoo1

As I said, they willfully started selling assets off at the deadline 2010. (Everything before that was mad dash to just compete and squeak in)
And then again they willfully didn't address needs throughout that offseason and through the subsequent season to get nuge. 2 seasons of unequivocal "tanking".

Beyond that, they attempted and did, start acquiring assets to move forward. The quality of them low no doubt, but these were the best secondary vet guys that would agree to sign. (Ference/Gordon etc) We even had to overpay term and dollars. But we did it.

As I said, if your definition is just any team that's bad, then yeah, I guess they tanked along with a bunch of other teams. But that's not mine as I understand and saw the steps they took. Just wasn't near enough to achieve their goals

In my estimation trying to get better and failing is even worse than this tank thing that seems to upset so many people

My argument against that is they felt they could patch together a team that could squeak into the playoffs like they had many times before. When that plan fell totally on it's face, they didn't have a choice anymore. By the end of that year, you're correct. They had begun the process, but it was very minimal in comparison.
- HonkFortheGoose

Yea that's true, I remember there was some sort of playoff expectation early on.

It was the way you worded it. The second sentence about talent. The similarity between Buffalo last year and Toronto this year are about as spot on as you could get. The team was basically constructed to fail. The only thing that really is different is the coach. Babcock and Nolan couldn't possibly be further apart.
- HonkFortheGoose

Only difference is I could see and I'm not saying this is true but I could see Babbcok sighing on and being game to ice a team not as competitive as what he'd normally allow. Not saying he's trying to lose just that he gets the plan. Whereas with Nolan you could tell he hated the whole thing and was fighting for his job despite the talent deficit of himself and the roster.

Only difference is I could see and I'm not saying this is true but I could see Babbcok sighing on and being game to ice a team not as competitive as what he'd normally allow. Not saying he's trying to lose just that he gets the plan. Whereas with Nolan you could tell he hated the whole thing and was fighting for his job despite the talent deficit of himself and the roster.
- bluengold12

So you're implying purposefully losing in game ??

No

Just no

He may have agreed to his talent pool being decimated. But he'll take what he's got every game and attempt to win. Beyond any shadow of a doubt

So you're implying purposefully losing in game ??

No

Just no
- HB77

Again not what I said, he's trying to win but he's not an idiot. He knew signing onto this team that they we'rent going to be that competitive the first couple years. In fact I believe he even said it in his presser.

Again not what I said, he's trying to win but he's not an idiot. He knew signing onto this team that they we'rent going to be that competitive the first couple years. In fact I believe he even said it in his presser.
- bluengold12

For sure he knew it

I guess I just misunderstood your meaning. My mistake

For sure he knew it

I guess I just misunderstood your meaning
- HB77

Someone pointed out the difference being Babcok and Nolan. I was just saying that Nolan is more of a in the moment guy whereas Babcock sees the bigger picture.

As I said, they willfully started selling assets off at the deadline 2010. (Everything before that was mad dash to just compete and squeak in)
And then again they willfully didn't address needs throughout that offseason and through the subsequent season to get nuge. 2 seasons of unequivocal "tanking".

Beyond that, they attempted and did, start acquiring assets to move forward. The quality of them low no doubt, but these were the best secondary vet guys that would agree to sign. (Ference/Gordon etc) We even had to overpay term and dollars. But we did it.

As I said, if your definition is just any team that's bad, then yeah, I guess they tanked along with a bunch of other teams. But that's not mine as I understand and saw the steps they took. Just wasn't near enough to achieve their goals

In my estimation trying to get better and failing is even worse than this tank thing that seems to upset so many people
- HB77

I get what you're saying, really I do. But, what you have to understand is that to the rest of the league Edmonton looks like a team that has done virtually nothing to address the defensive side of things while at the same time amassing one of the greatest offenses the league has ever seen. Yak should have been moved by now for a defenseman. Eberle should have probably been moved last summer for one too. With Mcdavid and Leon down the middle, RNH should be expendable this summer for a quality defensemen.

Edmonton has tried to sign low quality guys like you've stated in hopes that will work, it hasn't. What needs to be done is the movement of some of your offense to boosted up the back end. It should have happened a few years ago, but hasn't. That is why Edmonton really looks like a tanking on purpose hockey club.

Maybe your definition of tanking just means being bad?
Cause for sure there would be a ton of teams included in that

Oilers tore it down and started selling assets deadline 2010.
Got hall
Tanked all 2011
Got nuge

Actually tried to win beyond that (started actually signing free agents - secondary ones- but they were the only ones that would come) and never actually finished last again. They just won the lottery twice

Sabres tore it down 2014
Got reinhart
Tanked all 2015
Got eichel

Actually trying to win now...
- HB77

So Buffalo on the Edmonton path of a rebuild?

I get what you're saying, really I do. But, what you have to understand is that to the rest of the league Edmonton looks like a team that has done virtually nothing to address the defensive side of things while at the same time amassing one of the greatest offenses the league has ever seen. Yak should have been moved by now for a defenseman. Eberle should have probably been moved last summer for one too. With Mcdavid and Leon down the middle, RNH should be expendable this summer for a quality defensemen.

Edmonton has tried to sign low quality guys like you've stated in hopes that will work, it hasn't. What needs to be done is the movement of some of your offense to boosted up the back end. It should have happened a few years ago, but hasn't. That is why Edmonton really looks like a tanking on purpose hockey club.
- sskkoo1

Hard to do that when his value isn't all that high.

As far as the rest of what you put, they're going to trade away a lot of offense to get defense, but then the offense is taking a huge hit. Better defense may keep the GAA down, but now the GF category is probably going to struggle. You need to have good wingers for those good centers. If you move Eberle, who is playing with McDavid?

Shame on You Pach

Pulling a Garth and Trolling those poor Loaf Fans

So Buffalo on the Edmonton path of a rebuild?
- ShayneCorsi

Where do you draw that conclusion? We have not drafted #1 overall since Pierre Turgeon.

Rob Tychkowski Verified account 
‏@Sun_Tychkowski
Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli says he is open to trading one or more of Edmonton's core players, but it would likely be in the summer.

Get Eberle

Chiarelli said today he'd like to get bigger and heavier and also get puck moving D.

This off season we should offer Foligno Franson and a 3rd for Eberle and a 6th.

Rob Tychkowski Verified account 
‏@Sun_Tychkowski
Oilers GM Peter Chiarelli says he is open to trading one or more of Edmonton's core players, but it would likely be in the summer.

Get Eberle
- sbroads24

Eberle for Bogosian+!

Chiarelli said today he'd like to get bigger and heavier and also get puck moving D.

This off season we should offer Foligno Franson and a 3rd for Eberle and a 6th.
- bluengold12

Not even close to enough IMO.

Bogosian and Larsson maybe.

Franson is a 3rd/4th round pick return.

Hard to do that when his value isn't all that high.

As far as the rest of what you put, they're going to trade away a lot of offense to get defense, but then the offense is taking a huge hit. Better defense may keep the GAA down, but now the GF category is probably going to struggle. You need to have good wingers for those good centers. If you move Eberle, who is playing with McDavid?
- HonkFortheGoose

I just used Eberle as an example, but I feel my point holds. Yak should have been moved long ago for a defensemen. Yes, his value is down since being drafted but teams will still take a shot on him, and he could have brought back (and still could) a top 4 defensemen right now.

With getting McDavid and especially after the way he's played so far proving he's legit. And Leon proving he can be a solid #2C, RNH should be shopped for a legit #1 defensemen.

What's wrong with moving Pouliot or Purcell for help on defense?

Trading one or two pieces of their amazing offense will not hurt the Oilers, but it will at least show they're trying to improve the defense. They have done nothing so far but sign sub par players, and enough time has passed to make a serious move.

Eberle for Bogosian+!
- ImThatGuy

I suggested that yesterday.

I suggested that yesterday.
- sbroads24

Ive been on that train for awhile.

I just used Eberle as an example, but I feel my point holds. Yak should have been moved long ago for a defensemen. Yes, his value is down since being drafted but teams will still take a shot on him, and he could have brought back (and still could) a top 4 defensemen right now.

With getting McDavid and especially after the way he's played so far proving he's legit. And Leon proving he can be a solid #2C, RNH should be shopped for a legit #1 defensemen.

What's wrong with moving Pouliot or Purcell for help on defense?

Trading one or two pieces of their amazing offense will not hurt the Oilers, but it will at least show they're trying to improve the defense. They have done nothing so far but sign sub par players, and enough time has passed to make a serious move.
- sskkoo1

Problem is they need a guy better than what Pouliot brings back