I can't argue with you but I think, unlike others, there is a great deal of luck involved. I have also said many times there really hasn't been a pipeline flowing from Rockford to Chicago...This year may be different.

The last dman developed in Rockford was Hammer...Shaw was a good pick but not developed in Rockford...Only Crawford/Bickell played long in enough in Rockford to say they were developed there.

When players like TT and Saad drop I guess the biggest praise I can give them is they didn't back off their board projections and get scared off like others.
- Al

That was also one of my posts

Chicago has not drafted a top 4 dman since 2005 which is a HUGE problem

I said the only thing closest, and obviously time will tell, is Stephen Johns, but even with him, I would be he turns out to a be a solid #5/6 in the NHL than a top 4 dman

Look how bad we are scrambling to find top 4 D help now and we havent drafted and developed one ourselves in 10 years

I completely agree and Stan has done well in the NCAA/Euro FA department, it just shouldnt have to be either/or when stocking the cupboard via draft vs FA

IMO, Stans biggest mistake was not taking picks for Sharp when he had the chance. Take the pure cap space, wouldnt have taken Daley back, could have re-signed Oduya for what he took in Dallas. I mean how many weeks did Oduya sit and wait for Chicago to get something done so he could re-sign?

The picks would have also compensated some for the very high picks we lost at the TDL. Would have been the opportune time to replenish some
- FourFeathers773

Good conversation Feathers with Tred as well. Stan wanted Daley...at least that's what we were hearing at one point here on the Blog...And the way they treated Oduya was embarrassing especially when he ran out and resigned his pet Runny right away and gave AA the extension. Meantime why wasn't Bickell bought out? You'd still have Oduya here and let's be honest while all the chatter here is for a left wing you still need a #4 badly on the back end.

No question the Hawks have done well with the Euros/and the NCAA UFAs - Barry Smith certainly gets some credit here especially with the Panarin signing, and as mentioned the winning certainly doesn't hurt. But the Hawks do everything first class.

Bowman can drive one nuts at times - he gets Vermette a no brainer last spring and easily one of his best moves in his tenure here. At the same time as Al had mentioned had targeted Timonen (who was done).

I think Stan does his best work when he can't really think it over - a la the Saad deal. He quickly got the long wanted #2 center and Dano as well. Hope Saad is enjoying playing for Torts. No question he held his cards too long on Sharpie as he likes to do and it cost him with Nil taking him to the woodshed.

Hopefully he's got a couple of moves here coming up and or it could be a long summer.

I did concede that maybe the draft choices are more of a knock on Ted Dent and rockford more than it is the choices. Klingberg is a great example. Was no where near a stud prospect but you know what, they drafted him and let him play in Europe for 4 MORE YEARS to mature and fill out

I have also said I think because Chicago is in win now mode almost every year now, seems they dont send guys back to juniors enough or give them looks sooner than they should. If I had a preference, TT would have spent all of last year and most of this year in Rockford still
- FourFeathers773

Klingberg was also unique in that he was shifting from F to D. I think that is the primary reason they left him there - or at least they cite it as such.

I agree on the Ted Dent/Rockford question with the Hawks though. Not sure they have the faith in the coach and farm team like the Kings and Wings have in theirs. Dent must be a favorite of someone up top because it sure seems like a disconnect at times. Eli just pointed out how much Morin is getting played by Dent in all situations. What good is that for player development? Where is Barry Smith when that happens?

They should have a mini Q in Rockford. Someone who played and understood what Q wants COMPLETELY and demands that from the prospects.

Good conversation Feathers with Tred as well. Stan wanted Daley...at least that's what we were hearing at one point here on the Blog...And the way they treated Oduya was embarrassing especially when he ran out and resigned his pet Runny right away and gave AA the extension. Meantime why wasn't Bickell bought out? You'd still have Oduya here and let's be honest while all the chatter here is for a left wing you still need a #4 badly on the back end.

No question the Hawks have done well with the Euros/and the NCAA UFAs - Barry Smith certainly gets some credit here especially with the Panarin signing, and as mentioned the winning certainly doesn't hurt. But the Hawks do everything first class.

Bowman can drive one nuts at times - he gets Vermette a no brainer last spring and easily one of his best moves in his tenure here. At the same time as Al had mentioned had targeted Timonen (who was done).

I think Stan does his best work when he can't really think it over - a la the Saad deal. He quickly got the long wanted #2 center and Dano as well. Hope Saad is enjoying playing for Torts. No question he held his cards too long on Sharpie as he likes to do and it cost him with Nil taking him to the woodshed.

Hopefully he's got a couple of moves here coming up and or it could be a long summer.
- DK002

GREAT point

Vermette he finally ponied up for because if everyone remembers, was a counter punch to LAK nabbing Sekera off the market, who Stan was pursuing too.

Saads situation was about to go south quick and he got a very good return from Columbus

Sharp, Daley, Versteeg were all guys he sat on for soooooo long that he paid dearly to move them

I would hate to think what things would look like without them. I'm still shaking my head over the returns for Raanta and Nillsen. They should have brought picks back for both.

Thats my biggest gripe. You cant point to the FA acquisitions as a reason to offset the drafts that yield next to nothing. You need to pull from BOTH. If Stan hit just ONE top 6 forward to develop in the later rounds in the last 5 years, and ONE top 4 dman to develop in the later rounds the last 5 years, imagine how scary this team would be? And thats not asking for imaginary cap space or any advantage over any other team. Thats just capitalizing on your own picks and your own scouts/development system
- FourFeathers773

Agree 100%. The free agents have helped minimize the damage. Panarin and TVR were really crucial. Lack of draft results the last 3-4 years... they have been very lucky for that college loophole.

That was also one of my posts

Chicago has not drafted a top 4 dman since 2005 which is a HUGE problem

I said the only thing closest, and obviously time will tell, is Stephen Johns, but even with him, I would be he turns out to a be a solid #5/6 in the NHL than a top 4 dman

Look how bad we are scrambling to find top 4 D help now and we havent drafted and developed one ourselves in 10 years
- FourFeathers773

... And this point gets covered up because the core is so good...But many drafted who failed projections were held so long they had little if any trade value...And some of those were dmen that may have been developed to be 3rd pairing players.

I think Bowman realizes the same now and was proactive in dealing Clendening.

Young guys like Dano and Danault may never have higher trade value than they have now.

Good conversation Feathers with Tred as well. Stan wanted Daley...at least that's what we were hearing at one point here on the Blog...And the way they treated Oduya was embarrassing especially when he ran out and resigned his pet Runny right away and gave AA the extension. Meantime why wasn't Bickell bought out? You'd still have Oduya here and let's be honest while all the chatter here is for a left wing you still need a #4 badly on the back end.

No question the Hawks have done well with the Euros/and the NCAA UFAs - Barry Smith certainly gets some credit here especially with the Panarin signing, and as mentioned the winning certainly doesn't hurt. But the Hawks do everything first class.

Bowman can drive one nuts at times - he gets Vermette a no brainer last spring and easily one of his best moves in his tenure here. At the same time as Al had mentioned had targeted Timonen (who was done).

I think Stan does his best work when he can't really think it over - a la the Saad deal. He quickly got the long wanted #2 center and Dano as well. Hope Saad is enjoying playing for Torts. No question he held his cards too long on Sharpie as he likes to do and it cost him with Nil taking him to the woodshed.

Hopefully he's got a couple of moves here coming up and or it could be a long summer.
- DK002

I'm pretty sure everyone would think that would suck, but that might be the best thing long term for all of the guys who have played so much hockey the last 6 years.

Agree 100%. The free agents have helped minimize the damage. Panarin and TVR were really crucial. Lack of draft results the last 3-4 years... they have been very lucky for that college loophole.
- tredbrta

If you go from the depths of the NHL draft (4th round and beyond) in the 5 years that really preceded the first cup win in 2010, so draft years 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, (i dont count 2009 as most guys that late dont step in next year) this is what the depth of those drafts yielded:

Troy Brouwer
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Ben Smith

While Ben Smith is no prized pig, he turned into a solid role player, but as my earlier post stated. If you can find ONE top 6 forward (Brouwer) and one top 4 dman (Hammer), that DRASTICALLY changes the makeup of your team to have that coming up the pipeline

I think most would foam at the mouth if we had another Brouwer and Hammer coming up the pipeline right now. Nobody is going to hit gold left and right in the depths of the draft, but sometimes all you need is to find 1 or 2

I'm pretty sure everyone would think that would suck, but that might be the best thing long term for all of the guys who have played so much hockey the last 6 years.
- 6628

Could be but there is so much luck involved concerning injuries you just don't know.

They have loaded the gun up and gone for broke here and have won the Grand Prize more than once....That in itself is a rarity.

If you go from the depths of the NHL draft (4th round and beyond) in the 5 years that really preceded the first cup win in 2010, so draft years 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, (i dont count 2009 as most guys that late dont step in next year) this is what the depth of those drafts yielded:

Troy Brouwer
Niklas Hjalmarsson
Ben Smith

While Ben Smith is no prized pig, he turned into a solid role player, but as my earlier post stated. If you can find ONE top 6 forward (Brouwer) and one top 4 dman (Hammer), that DRASTICALLY changes the makeup of your team to have that coming up the pipeline

I think most would foam at the mouth if we had another Brouwer and Hammer coming up the pipeline right now. Nobody is going to hit gold left and right in the depths of the draft, but sometimes all you need is to find 1 or 2
- FourFeathers773

Smith and Bollig were two others who were on Rockford for awhile but neither played in Chgo very long.

... And this point gets covered up because the core is so good...But many drafted who failed projections were held so long they had little if any trade value...And some of those were dmen that may have been developed to be 3rd pairing players.

I think Bowman realizes the same now and was proactive in dealing Clendening.

Young guys like Dano and Danault may never have higher trade value than they have now.
- Al

Wasnt clendening also approaching a season where he would no longer be waiver exempt? Much like when stan dealt Nilsson, he had to trade both of them for something before having to risk losing them to waivers for nothing like Chicago lost Stanton and Nilsson and Clendening really didnt look like they had a shot at all for making the team. I could be wrong about their waiver status but i recall that being the reason explained to me by a buddy why there were moved

Smith and Bollig were two others who were on Rockford for awhile but neither played in Chgo very long.
- Al

Bollig really isnt an everyday NHL player and most know that. He did well to make him a serviceable fourth liner, but it was evident he was useless outside the regular season when Q was playing him 5 minutes a night in the playoffs

Ben Smith also played 4 years in at BC and over 150 games in Rockford before being up full time, so he definitely was fully mature for his NHL role. Love ben smith and he was a bull down low, but limited skill set. Would love for Chicago to have that kind of patience with a player with real high raw ability, much like Detroit does.

They find a guy with a real raw talent level, but deficiencies in their game, and rounds them out

Wasnt clendening also approaching a season where he would no longer be waiver exempt? Much like when stan dealt Nilsson, he had to trade both of them for something before having to risk losing them to waivers for nothing like Chicago lost Stanton and Nilsson and Clendening really didnt look like they had a shot at all for making the team. I could be wrong about their waiver status but i recall that being the reason explained to me by a buddy why there were moved
- FourFeathers773

I think Clendenning was in the same boat as Stanton...I was surprised he was dealt before the playoffs began. I figured he would go at the Draft but probably would not have made the club out of camp. Pirri and Morin were also dealt because they really couldn't be kept any longer and would have been lost for nothing via waivers.

Bollig really isnt an everyday NHL player and most know that. He did well to make him a serviceable fourth liner, but it was evident he was useless outside the regular season when Q was playing him 5 minutes a night in the playoffs

Ben Smith also played 4 years in at BC and over 150 games in Rockford before being up full time, so he definitely was fully mature for his NHL role. Love ben smith and he was a bull down low, but limited skill set. Would love for Chicago to have that kind of patience with a player with real high raw ability, much like Detroit does.

They find a guy with a real raw talent level, but deficiencies in their game, and rounds them out
- FourFeathers773

Bollig was the only player to come up through Rockford and play under Q for awhile that could only play on one line.

Bollig was the only player to come up through Rockford and play under Q for awhile that could only play on one line.
- Al

Well someone had to replace John Scott after we traded him.

Honestly, to this day, Stans best trades might be be John Scott for a 5th and Brandon Bollig for a 3rd

Both 4th line enforcers and John Scott is as useless as they come. A third round pick for bollig honestly blows the cam barker for leddy trade off the walls for me.

Bollig is a routine healthy scratch for Calgary still...

Well someone had to replace John Scott after we traded him.

Honestly, to this day, Stans best trades might be be John Scott for a 5th and Brandon Bollig for a 3rd

Both 4th line enforcers and John Scott is as useless as they come. A third round pick for bollig honestly blows the cam barker for leddy trade off the walls for me.

Bollig is a routine healthy scratch for Calgary still...
- FourFeathers773

The Scott trade was a perfect example of a GM making sure his coach couldn't write a player into the lineup.

Scott in many ways was the worse player I have watched in a Hawks uniform.

Agree no panic and good vision. Now if he can discern when to take chances before Q sours.

BTW-Rask looks like a player Ron Francis would want to build around.
- Al

This..... The kid is very confident and it shows. No in between with this guy, he just bites/gambles/goes relying on very good skating and skills.

As you mention, Q can sour on that kind of stuff fast if he gets caught gambling.

The Scott trade was a perfect example of a GM making sure his coach couldn't write a player into the lineup.

Scott in many ways was the worse player I have watched in a Hawks uniform.
- Al

What are you talking about!! Isn't he leading the NHL in all star votes!

Thoughts from the cheap seats:

* I don't think Dano will be traded; it took Stan this long to waive Rundblad (his pet project) and trading a fan favourite in Saad, he'll want to keep his return in AA and Dano and really see how the latter pans out.

* Speaking of Dano, I know Q hasn't given him a long leash, but I believe there has to be a master plan with him. Like Gustafsson, let him play in RFD and bring him up later on.

* STILL speaking of Dano, here's his analysis from Elite Prospects: "Dano is a skilled two-way forward who skates with good mobility and effort. He keeps his feet moving and uses his hands well to be elusive with the puck. He shows no fear in taking the puck into high-traffic areas and can play the chippy, gritty style of game. He's defensively responsible and keeps close tabs on his assignments before jumping on the offensive."

* Take the above for what it's worth, but with JJ speaking of Stan looking for a winger with more size (Dano listed around 5'10/200 lbs) and Q mentioning they need more gritty goals, wouldn't this be the exact type of player you would want in your lineup?

* I was also really impressed with the skill-set of Gustafsson, looking forward to him settling in as a pro. I think they could have a hidden gem in him.

* I was a big fan of TT last year, specifically in the Playoffs but he's really disappointed this year. He seems very timid and not at dynamic as we've witnessed in the past. So which player is he? Is he hurt? Or is he avoiding high traffic areas because he's still physically 2-3 away from being a force in the NHL.

* How much longer will Q put up with this lack of LW. Not a 1LW, but just the wingers in general. I know JJ, you have provided a list of guys that the Hawks are looking at, but seems like this may be more of a deadline deal. What does Q do in the meantime? You can't blame him using Shaw on the top line. He's been one of the most consistent players all year.


End scene.

.... Oh wait, extremely excited that Rundblad was waived today. I would be shocked if anyone (including ARI) picks him up. He will barely cut it in RFD IMO.

NOON , est to find out if Runsbad was claimed right ?

Thoughts from the cheap seats:

* I don't think Dano will be traded; it took Stan this long to waive Rundblad (his pet project) and trading a fan favourite in Saad, he'll want to keep his return in AA and Dano and really see how the latter pans out.

* Speaking of Dano, I know Q hasn't given him a long leash, but I believe there has to be a master plan with him. Like Gustafsson, let him play in RFD and bring him up later on.

* STILL speaking of Dano, here's his analysis from Elite Prospects: "Dano is a skilled two-way forward who skates with good mobility and effort. He keeps his feet moving and uses his hands well to be elusive with the puck. He shows no fear in taking the puck into high-traffic areas and can play the chippy, gritty style of game. He's defensively responsible and keeps close tabs on his assignments before jumping on the offensive."

* Take the above for what it's worth, but with JJ speaking of Stan looking for a winger with more size (Dano listed around 5'10/200 lbs) and Q mentioning they need more gritty goals, wouldn't this be the exact type of player you would want in your lineup?

* I was also really impressed with the skill-set of Gustafsson, looking forward to him settling in as a pro. I think they could have a hidden gem in him.

* I was a big fan of TT last year, specifically in the Playoffs but he's really disappointed this year. He seems very timid and not at dynamic as we've witnessed in the past. So which player is he? Is he hurt? Or is he avoiding high traffic areas because he's still physically 2-3 away from being a force in the NHL.

* How much longer will Q put up with this lack of LW. Not a 1LW, but just the wingers in general. I know JJ, you have provided a list of guys that the Hawks are looking at, but seems like this may be more of a deadline deal. What does Q do in the meantime? You can't blame him using Shaw on the top line. He's been one of the most consistent players all year.


End scene.

.... Oh wait, extremely excited that Rundblad was waived today. I would be shocked if anyone (including ARI) picks him up. He will barely cut it in RFD IMO.
- TyCamScore

I only disagree there. I think he will be just like clendening in Rockford. A guy with good offensive upside and terrible defensive skill and their biggest issue being the speed of the NHL.

I think Rundblad would be good players in the minors where the game is slower or over on euro ice where the dmen have all the time and space in the world

Runblad just piddles himself on the forecheck, he cant make up his mind or find the outlet fast enough after recognizing the play

The Scott trade was a perfect example of a GM making sure his coach couldn't write a player into the lineup.

Scott in many ways was the worse player I have watched in a Hawks uniform.
- Al

Id rather have Scott over these players from the last 15 years when I routinely followed the hawks on either d or wing
Alex Karpotsev , Mike Peulso, Gary Valk, Deron Quint, Mikahel Yaukpov, Erik Nikalus, Thomas Fitzgearld Peter White, Pavel Vorbiev, Todd Simpson, Tony Salmelien, Michael Holmqvist, Craig Mcdonald, Nikita Aleexva, Carl Corazinni, Colin Fraser, Adam Burish, Kevyn Adams, Craig Adams, Karl Stewart, Andrew Ebbet, Fernado Pisani. We've had some pretty bad talent in the lineup and even though Scott doesn't always enforce like he's suppose to he is more useful then the players above.
As for just enforcers I'd put them in this order since I've followed the hawks in terms of playing there role.
1. Ryan Vandenbussche (fearless, great skater would thrive in todays nhl as a 4th liner)
2. Bob Probert (On the down swing of his career)
3. Jim Vandermeer (Absolute animal until his last year with the hawks helped out a young Seabrook and Keith)
4. Reed Low (Knew his role only lasted half a season)
5. David Koci (Always count on him to show up not the best fighter, most memorable debut ever against the yotes)
6. John Scott (When he felt like it could be effective enforcing would have been great in the 90s.)
7. Ben Eager (Spot picker and took some dumb penalties)
8. Shawn Thorton (Didn't get much of a chance but was always good)
9. Brandon Bollig (Average at best)
10. Daniel Carcillo (Washed up by the time he got to the hawks)
The rest I guess you could call enforcers or guys who relied on fighting Adam Burish and Colin Fraser were punching bags. Travis Moen only player a year as did Scottie Nicohl, and Matthew Barnaby. John Aitkens had one great season but not long enough resume. Aaron Downey was muh.
What would any of your guys list be? I've watched some older video and Stu Grimson was fun to watch. Behn Wilson was tough as nails as was Peluso and Cam Russell even though they had there share of losses. And we all know even though he was willing the late Keith Magnuson was a brutal fighter.

Seems to me like an error in judgement to waive tiko and not use him as a trade chip. Especially to AZ. You had to know they would want their pick back.

NOON , est to find out if Runsbad was claimed right ?
- mrpaulish

If Columbus doesn't claim Rundblad then Vancouver will.

Boedker would be a nice fit on the first line with Toews and Hossa. I would try and at almost any cost try to dump Bickell and his bad contract to acquire Boedker.

If it takes TT and a first or another prospect like a Hartman then so be it. That contract and Bickell need to be bye bye.

Lines below are pretty balanced and pretty damn good.
Boedker-Toews-Hossa
Panarin-AA-Kane
Shaw-Danault-Dano
Desi-Rasmussen-Garbutt

Excited to see Gustafson back on the big club. Liked his play when he was up on the Hawks.

Going to be interesting to see what happens.