I completely agree and Stan has done well in the NCAA/Euro FA department, it just shouldnt have to be either/or when stocking the cupboard via draft vs FA

IMO, Stans biggest mistake was not taking picks for Sharp when he had the chance. Take the pure cap space, wouldnt have taken Daley back, could have re-signed Oduya for what he took in Dallas. I mean how many weeks did Oduya sit and wait for Chicago to get something done so he could re-sign?

The picks would have also compensated some for the very high picks we lost at the TDL. Would have been the opportune time to replenish some
- FourFeathers773

Waiting on Sharp was a mistake. If that offer was there Stan should have taken it.

That said, as your research has shown - Kelly hasn't really been drafting that well - so there is no reason to prioritize keeping high picks.

Considering the recent draft results and their typical position the priority should be obtaining quantities of picks so the math may favor them finding a keeper not necessarily hanging on to late 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders.

I completely agree and Stan has done well in the NCAA/Euro FA department, it just shouldnt have to be either/or when stocking the cupboard via draft vs FA

IMO, Stans biggest mistake was not taking picks for Sharp when he had the chance. Take the pure cap space, wouldnt have taken Daley back, could have re-signed Oduya for what he took in Dallas. I mean how many weeks did Oduya sit and wait for Chicago to get something done so he could re-sign?

The picks would have also compensated some for the very high picks we lost at the TDL. Would have been the opportune time to replenish some
- FourFeathers773

Unfortunately, rumor does not equal reality. How do we really know if the Sharp for picks trade wasnt "sharp for picks, plus just a wee little sweetener named TT". We simply dont. I'm giving Stanbo the benefit of the doubt. He's earned it. Hindsight is 20/20. "Shoulda" is not available today.

Portland "shoulda" taken a different guy than Sam Bowie in 1984. They bet on the 7'-2" established big over the shooting guard who had one great year at North Carolina and was cut from his high school team.

I am excited BTW by the return of Gustafsson. Kid was starting to show some unique ability before he got sent back down.
- John Jaeckel

Agree no panic and good vision. Now if he can discern when to take chances before Q sours.

BTW-Rask looks like a player Ron Francis would want to build around.

Waiting on Sharp was a mistake. If that offer was there Stan should have taken it.

That said, as your research has shown - Kelly hasn't really been drafting that well - so there is no reason to prioritize keeping high picks.

Considering the recent draft results and their typical position the priority should be obtaining quantities of picks so the math may favor them finding a keeper not necessarily hanging on to late 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders.
- tredbrta

Saad...TT were Kelly. so was Danault.

Agree no panic and good vision. Now if he can discern when to take chances before Q sours.

BTW-Rask looks like a player Ron Francis would want to build around.
- Al

He can carry the puck and isn't afraid to shoot. He wasn't intimidated by anyone when he was called up either. He deserves a long look.

Unfortunately, rumor does not equal reality. How do we really know if the Sharp for picks trade wasnt "sharp for picks, plus just a wee little sweetener named TT". We simply dont. I'm giving Stanbo the benefit of the doubt. He's earned it. Hindsight is 20/20. "Shoulda" is not available today. Portland "shoulda" taken a different guy than Sam Bowie in 1984.
- Cmonalready

It was pretty widely reported around the draft that Stan had turned down various offers, such as two 2nd round picks. Various insiders reported Stan was holding out for a 1st round pick he obviously never got.

Nobody ponied it, he didnt take the picks offered, the draft passed, so he settled for the crap Nill offered

I completely agree and Stan has done well in the NCAA/Euro FA department, it just shouldnt have to be either/or when stocking the cupboard via draft vs FA

IMO, Stans biggest mistake was not taking picks for Sharp when he had the chance. Take the pure cap space, wouldnt have taken Daley back, could have re-signed Oduya for what he took in Dallas. I mean how many weeks did Oduya sit and wait for Chicago to get something done so he could re-sign?

The picks would have also compensated some for the very high picks we lost at the TDL. Would have been the opportune time to replenish some
- FourFeathers773

IF he had the chance - not sure that's been confirmed - and, if he had the chance, IF Sharp would have approved the deal.

But - would have been nice....

Waiting on Sharp was a mistake. If that offer was there Stan should have taken it.

That said, as your research has shown - Kelly hasn't really been drafting that well - so there is no reason to prioritize keeping high picks.

Considering the recent draft results and their typical position the priority should be obtaining quantities of picks so the math may favor them finding a keeper not necessarily hanging on to late 1st, 2nd or 3rd rounders.
- tredbrta

Completely agree on all of this. The drafting does have to improve IMO as much as people will disagree. I completely agree with you on just stocking up the number of draft picks as opposed to draft position.

Daley was another person I was hoping we could dump off for picks, but Stan elected for another roster body.

whaddya gonna do?

Saad...TT were Kelly. so was Danault.
- Al

Schmaltz is doing well too.

Not saying Kelly is terrible but the results would not rank him in the top 3rd and a number of teams with similar draft positions have drafted better since 12. 4feathers broke it down pretty well on a past thread.

He may do better with a higher number of picks - even in lower rounds(where it really is a roll of the dice) until the time comes when they may trade to rebuild with higher picks.

Completely agree on all of this. The drafting does have to improve IMO as much as people will disagree. I completely agree with you on just stocking up the number of draft picks as opposed to draft position.

Daley was another person I was hoping we could dump off for picks, but Stan elected for another roster body.

whaddya gonna do?
- FourFeathers773

Agree with Daley for picks. Not sure that was there for them though. Scuderi was probably not a target. I really thought Sharp would bring them a few 2nds or even a late 1st to replenish what they traded out. That has been their typical objective - to replace the picks they trade - even if not in the same round the same quantity each year. I think that may have changed with the free agency success.

If they can keep contending as well as providing opportunities to the free agent signings it has to help them with future free agents. Prospective free agents seeing TVR making it and Gus, Svedberg, Baun, Kero et al getting real looks must see the Hawks as a target destination.

Agree with Daley for picks. Not sure that was there for them though. Scuderi was probably not a target. I really thought Sharp would bring them a few 2nds or even a late 1st to replenish what they traded out. That has been their typical objective - to replace the picks they trade - even if not in the same round the same quantity each year. I think that may have changed with the free agency success.

If they can keep contending as well as providing opportunities to the free agent signings it has to help them with future free agents. Prospective free agents seeing TVR making it and Gus, Svedberg, Baun, Kero et al getting real looks must see the Hawks as a target destination.
- tredbrta

Plus the winning helps .

Agree with Daley for picks. Not sure that was there for them though. Scuderi was probably not a target. I really thought Sharp would bring them a few 2nds or even a late 1st to replenish what they traded out. That has been their typical objective - to replace the picks they trade - even if not in the same round the same quantity each year. I think that may have changed with the free agency success.

If they can keep contending as well as providing opportunities to the free agent signings it has to help them with future free agents. Prospective free agents seeing TVR making it and Gus, Svedberg, Baun, Kero et al getting real looks must see the Hawks as a target destination.
- tredbrta

Wasnt Ottawa pretty hot after Daley? Even Garrioch was reporting it. Seems like Stan waited again and I would bet Ottawa dropped out because of too high of the asking price?

If that was the case again, would be the second time Stan had too high of an asking price and wound up cornering himself to take much less down the line

Wasnt Ottawa pretty hot after Daley? Even Garrioch was reporting it. Seems like Stan waited again and I would bet Ottawa dropped out because of too high of the asking price?

If that was the case again, would be the second time Stan had too high of an asking price and wound up cornering himself to take much less down the line
- FourFeathers773

But there is no way to know this for sur e. Plus Garrioch is an bumhole

Plus the winning helps .
- mrpaulish

No doubt.

But we have seen that there will be a continual turnover over the years with the contracts of Hossa, Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford on the books.

I give full marks for the college and euro FA acquisitions.

You just hope they had some studs slowly marinating in the pipeline like some other teams have found late (Hoffman, Stone, Benn, Palat, etc) where those are the guys they build for sustained future success instead of needing to plug into a FA market for immediate help

If we keep finding the Panarins, TVRs, Gustafssons, etc of the FA market. Great. Lets find some guys in the lower rounds that we can take 4 years to marinate for the next cycle of a championship run ready to be called up and contribute while on an ELC

But there is no way to know this for sur e. Plus Garrioch is an bumhole
- mrpaulish

touche

They have asked about Rask, JVR, possibly Huberdeau, and Boedker.

It seems like the only possible deal there is Boedker, and I think they would jump at an affordable deal for him.
- John Jaeckel

If they managed to snag him how much of a difference can he make? I feel like they still need a true 4D, too. I'm guessing the prospect they'd be sending in return would need to be Dano?

Portland "shoulda" taken a different guy than Sam Bowie in 1984. They bet on the 7'-2" established big over the shooting guard who had one great year at North Carolina and was cut from his high school team.
- Cmonalready

Amen, and don't even get me started on Oden.

--lifelong Blazers fan, patiently waiting for the next 1977

Schmaltz is doing well too.

Not saying Kelly is terrible but the results would not rank him in the top 3rd and a number of teams with similar draft positions have drafted better since 12. 4feathers broke it down pretty well on a past thread.

He may do better with a higher number of picks - even in lower rounds(where it really is a roll of the dice) until the time comes when they may trade to rebuild with higher picks.
- tredbrta

I would like to see the breakdown...I think when you draft at the bottom of the 1st round you wait for a berries to drop and hope others made a mistake in passing them.

That's exactly what happened with Saad and TT.

FWIW...Kelly is well thought of around the league from his time in Pitt as well...

Wasnt Ottawa pretty hot after Daley? Even Garrioch was reporting it. Seems like Stan waited again and I would bet Ottawa dropped out because of too high of the asking price?

If that was the case again, would be the second time Stan had too high of an asking price and wound up cornering himself to take much less down the line
- FourFeathers773

What Garrioch reported seemed like a really high return. Puempel and a 2nd or something. I saw no supporting reports out of the usual, more credible sources so I assumed more garbage from him.

I would like to see the breakdown...I think when you draft at the bottom of the 1st round you wait for a berries to drop and hope others made a mistake in passing them.

That's exactly what happened with Saad and TT.

FWIW...Kelly is well thought of around the league from his time in Pitt as well...
- Al

Al I would pull up all my old posts but I dont feel like hunting which blogs they are on.

Bottom line was that Saad was someone they got really lucky on. They had 4 picks in the top 45 and they took Saad with their fourth pick that year and he blew by all their other "top" choice in front of him (McNeil, Danault, Clendening). They got lucky he was still around and tumbled out of the first round where he was supposed to go in mock draft. Hey, they still picked him so it worked out. But they were more lucky than good IMO because A) he was still there B) they wont have many more drafts with four picks in the top 45 overall

TT, as you and I have actually traded on before (and you compared the ANA/Fowler situation to the same kind of situation), but TT was a mock top 10 overall pick and TUMBLED to Chicago at #18. They got very lucky a top 10 talent fell all the way down because that was the year there was fire sale on dmen (9 dmen taken in the top 15 overall)

Outside of TT and Saad, Andrew Shaw is the only meaningful NHL player since the 2010 draft that Chicago has taken/developed (K.Hayes if you want to count him, but jury is out there and he is very vanilla this year)

No doubt.

But we have seen that there will be a continual turnover over the years with the contracts of Hossa, Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford on the books.

I give full marks for the college and euro FA acquisitions.

You just hope they had some studs slowly marinating in the pipeline like some other teams have found late (Hoffman, Stone, Benn, Palat, etc) where those are the guys they build for sustained future success instead of needing to plug into a FA market for immediate help

If we keep finding the Panarins, TVRs, Gustafssons, etc of the FA market. Great. Lets find some guys in the lower rounds that we can take 4 years to marinate for the next cycle of a championship run ready to be called up and contribute while on an ELC
- FourFeathers773[/quote]

I would hate to think what things would look like without them. I'm still shaking my head over the returns for Raanta and Nillsen. They should have brought picks back for both.

Al I would pull up all my old posts but I dont feel like hunting which blogs they are on.

Bottom line was that Saad was someone they got really lucky on. They had 4 picks in the top 45 and they took Saad with their fourth pick that year and he blew by all their other "top" choice in front of him (McNeil, Danault, Clendening). They got lucky he was still around and tumbled out of the first round where he was supposed to go in mock draft. Hey, they still picked him so it worked out. But they were more lucky than good IMO because A) he was still there B) they wont have many more drafts with four picks in the top 45 overall

TT, as you and I have actually traded on before (and you compared the ANA/Fowler situation to the same kind of situation), but TT was a mock top 10 overall pick and TUMBLED to Chicago at #18. They got very lucky a top 10 talent fell all the way down because that was the year there was fire sale on dmen (9 dmen taken in the top 15 overall)

Outside of TT and Saad, Andrew Shaw is the only meaningful NHL player since the 2010 draft that Chicago has taken/developed (K.Hayes if you want to count him, but jury is out there and he is very vanilla this year)
- FourFeathers773

I did concede that maybe the draft choices are more of a knock on Ted Dent and rockford more than it is the choices. Klingberg is a great example. Was no where near a stud prospect but you know what, they drafted him and let him play in Europe for 4 MORE YEARS to mature and fill out

I have also said I think because Chicago is in win now mode almost every year now, seems they dont send guys back to juniors enough or give them looks sooner than they should. If I had a preference, TT would have spent all of last year and most of this year in Rockford still

[quote=FourFeathers773]No doubt.

But we have seen that there will be a continual turnover over the years with the contracts of Hossa, Kane, Toews, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford on the books.

I give full marks for the college and euro FA acquisitions.

You just hope they had some studs slowly marinating in the pipeline like some other teams have found late (Hoffman, Stone, Benn, Palat, etc) where those are the guys they build for sustained future success instead of needing to plug into a FA market for immediate help

If we keep finding the Panarins, TVRs, Gustafssons, etc of the FA market. Great. Lets find some guys in the lower rounds that we can take 4 years to marinate for the next cycle of a championship run ready to be called up and contribute while on an ELC
- tredbrta

I would hate to think what things would look like without them. I'm still shaking my head over the returns for Raanta and Nillsen. They should have brought picks back for both.

Thats my biggest gripe. You cant point to the FA acquisitions as a reason to offset the drafts that yield next to nothing. You need to pull from BOTH. If Stan hit just ONE top 6 forward to develop in the later rounds in the last 5 years, and ONE top 4 dman to develop in the later rounds the last 5 years, imagine how scary this team would be? And thats not asking for imaginary cap space or any advantage over any other team. Thats just capitalizing on your own picks and your own scouts/development system

I would like to see the breakdown...I think when you draft at the bottom of the 1st round you wait for a berries to drop and hope others made a mistake in passing them.

That's exactly what happened with Saad and TT.

FWIW...Kelly is well thought of around the league from his time in Pitt as well...
- Al

The primary comps were to teams drafting at similar positions. Kings, Rags, Wings, Bolts, Ducks all have drafted better the last 3-4 years. Thread was about a week back.

Kelly usually grabs the players that drop to him like TT and Saad. Failed to do that this year on Kylington and looked like the wrong move - more so now. Time will tell of course - there could be gems we aren't seeing yet but since Shaw have we actually seen a late round steal? That is where he needs to make hay - like the Rangers, Bolts and Kings. Absent the free agent signings their system might be the worst in the NHL.

Again, I'll take the Cups over system depth.

Al I would pull up all my old posts but I dont feel like hunting which blogs they are on.

Bottom line was that Saad was someone they got really lucky on. They had 4 picks in the top 45 and they took Saad with their fourth pick that year and he blew by all their other "top" choice in front of him (McNeil, Danault, Clendening). They got lucky he was still around and tumbled out of the first round where he was supposed to go in mock draft. Hey, they still picked him so it worked out. But they were more lucky than good IMO because A) he was still there B) they wont have many more drafts with four picks in the top 45 overall

TT, as you and I have actually traded on before (and you compared the ANA/Fowler situation to the same kind of situation), but TT was a mock top 10 overall pick and TUMBLED to Chicago at #18. They got very lucky a top 10 talent fell all the way down because that was the year there was fire sale on dmen (9 dmen taken in the top 15 overall)

Outside of TT and Saad, Andrew Shaw is the only meaningful NHL player since the 2010 draft that Chicago has taken/developed (K.Hayes if you want to count him, but jury is out there and he is very vanilla this year)
- FourFeathers773

I can't argue with you but I think, unlike others, there is a great deal of luck involved. I have also said many times there really hasn't been a pipeline flowing from Rockford to Chicago...This year may be different.

The last dman developed in Rockford was Hammer...Shaw was a good pick but not developed in Rockford...Only Crawford/Bickell played long in enough in Rockford to say they were developed there.

When players like TT and Saad drop I guess the biggest praise I can give them is they didn't back off their board projections and get scared off like others.