Two were powerplay goals, no + for them
- stashu

hmmm I never knew that!

get a life





- homiedclown

Getting paid to have no life too!!

Do you really think this team without those moves does any better in the long run??

Sorry, but anyone who had high expectations for this season as a contender for the playoffs was off their rocker - even if you (not just you, anyone) show that "professionals" picked them to do well. It was too much to overcome those past seasons and such a huge roster and staff turnover.

This team is in no way better overall with Myers and Zadorov - the only NHL players given up (Stafford doesn't count as he was FA) and younger guys in the system that will need 2-5 years to develop.
- stashu

No, you are right. But what Murray did was leave himself very little room for error.

If we weren't expected to be much better this season, then players like Zadorov, or Travis Konecny, Brendan Lemieux, Compher etc taking 2+ years to develop isn't such a big deal.

However, when you have most of your core intact (albeit, very young) and you are a bad team, it's tough to add additional pieces without either overspending in FA or having to move guys in a trade.

No, you are right. But what Murray did was leave himself very little room for error.

If we weren't expected to be much better this season, then players like Zadorov, or Travis Konecny, Brendan Lemieux, Compher etc taking 2+ years to develop isn't such a big deal.

However, when you have most of your core intact (albeit, very young) and you are a bad team, it's tough to add additional pieces without either overspending in FA or having to move guys in a trade.
- sbroads24

IMO you can't judge this team this year, to young and/or new. Half way through next year if we are in the bottom 5, its a different story.

I don't think anyone would fire Murray at seasons end. But I think if you look at it from a "We are much better than last year" perspective, it can be misleading.

We were intentionally bad the last 2 years. Improvement was inevitable. I think the question now becomes can we ascend to a cup contending team sooner than later. I'm not sure we will.

I think we have a couple known quantities in Eichel, O'Reilly, and Ristolainen. Which is good, but I have no clue how good Reinhart will end up being, I have no clue if we have a #1 goalie, a solid 3 defensemen behind Risto, enough goal scoring etc.

With the amount of moves made by Murray, and what he gave up, I wish we had more answers than questions
- sbroads24

They were, but remember, they actually went on a bit of a hot streak in late November and early December last year. It wasn't until they went 0 for January that they really sealed their fate as the worst team in the league. I highly doubt that happens this year. Right now, this team is going on hot and cold streaks. They will end up much better than last year. Playoffs, though, are pretty much out of the question.

in 9 or 10 months murray moved 7 first rd picks, 2 31st's overall, 35 overall


myers
z
staff
armia
gringo
2 2015 first rd picks
2015 31 overall pick
lemieux
compher

the return is they are 2 or 3 points better than they were 12 months ago

No, you are right. But what Murray did was leave himself very little room for error.

If we weren't expected to be much better this season, then players like Zadorov, or Travis Konecny, Brendan Lemieux, Compher etc taking 2+ years to develop isn't such a big deal.

However, when you have most of your core intact (albeit, very young) and you are a bad team, it's tough to add additional pieces without either overspending in FA or having to move guys in a trade.
- sbroads24

The problem is if you wait for them to develop and let the young kids already on the roster fester in a losing environment, it can be very hard to get rid of that culture. If we kept putting Risto and the rest of the group through times like the last 2 years for much longer, the losing culture ends up ingrained in them. I don't want to say "Just look at the Oilers" because it seems cliche at this point, but look at the Oilers.

What Murray did was bring in guys with a lot of experience but that were still on the "young" side in Kane and O'Reilly. But it's going to take time for things to be firing on all cylinders and having the injuries on the team they've had this year haven't helped the cause either.

3 games ago after we beat the yotes everyone was on cloud 9 about this team, after 3 games now most are bashing the hell out of them.
1) they are mountains better than last year.
2) the oilers and flames have been on fire at home lately.
3) I'm not worried about the standings. They were below rock bottom last year and some fail to realize how much better they had to be just to go from a rock bottom team to a below average team.
4) Expectations.. not many pictured them as a playoff team. Goaltending/ defense were warts we knew were going to happen. You'll see the good and bad
5) it's going to be ok

They were, but remember, they actually went on a bit of a hot streak in late November and early December last year. It wasn't until they went 0 for January that they really sealed their fate as the worst team in the league. I highly doubt that happens this year. Right now, this team is going on hot and cold streaks. They will end up much better than last year. Playoffs, though, are pretty much out of the question.
- buffalofan19

Thank you..great points, I don't see another 14+ losses in a row this year

Thank you..great points, I don't see another 14+ losses in a row this year
- yen6d1

the d and goalie play makes it a possibility IMO

No, you are right. But what Murray did was leave himself very little room for error.

If we weren't expected to be much better this season, then players like Zadorov, or Travis Konecny, Brendan Lemieux, Compher etc taking 2+ years to develop isn't such a big deal.

However, when you have most of your core intact (albeit, very young) and you are a bad team, it's tough to add additional pieces without either overspending in FA or having to move guys in a trade.
- sbroads24

I just don't see the rush. There's way to much to overcome in the moves that were made, and would be worse if they weren't made (already have scored 22 more goals than they had this day last year)

On 12/23/14, Buffalo sat at 69 goals scored, 115 against. There are 5 more games they will play before 12/23 this year and they've already outscored that team and allowed 82 goals to date, unlikely they'll allow 33 in the next 5 games.

They're "growing" together, much more talent than they had or would have had this year without the changes. If they're doing this poorly NEXT year, that is cause for concern

in 9 or 10 months murray moved 7 first rd picks, 2 31st's overall, 35 overall


myers
z
staff
armia
gringo
2 2015 first rd picks
2015 31 overall pick
lemieux
compher

the return is they are 2 or 3 points better than they were 12 months ago
- homiedclown

This is a false analysis of the return.

There are only so many games you can lose. But when the Sabres were losing last year (and even two years ago) they didn't even belong in the National League.

This year, as you posted in this thread earlier, the Sabres are competing (for the most part) against even the most elite teams in the league, and playing pretty well against them. The last week has been a real let down, and there are still holes in the line up, but the return is not the increase in the number of points, the return is the overall improvement of the franchise, its talent, and its ability to compete.

We're closer than all you bridge jumpers are giving us credit.

the d and goalie play makes it a possibility IMO
- homiedclown

I'm saying this for the first time ever.

You disappoint me.

This is a false analysis of the return.

.
- Der Kaiser

really, that is what we gave up for kane, ror, bogo and a bubble boy between the pipes


7 first rounders
2 31st overalls
35th overall

I'm saying this for the first time ever.

You disappoint me.
- Der Kaiser

is doug whaley safe if the bills finish up 8-8?


same time as gm


same place as where the team was when he started

The problem is if you wait for them to develop and let the young kids already on the roster fester in a losing environment, it can be very hard to get rid of that culture. If we kept putting Risto and the rest of the group through times like the last 2 years for much longer, the losing culture ends up ingrained in them. I don't want to say "Just look at the Oilers" because it seems cliche at this point, but look at the Oilers.

What Murray did was bring in guys with a lot of experience but that were still on the "young" side in Kane and O'Reilly. But it's going to take time for things to be firing on all cylinders and having the injuries on the team they've had this year haven't helped the cause either.
- HonkFortheGoose

I agree with the reasoning for making the moves, but besides the O'Reilly one, I question whether they were the right ones.

What worries me is if we do finish bottom 5, Murray feels pressure and makes moves based on fear of his job

We're closer than all you bridge jumpers are giving us credit.
- Der Kaiser

not jumping the bridge, giving my opinion on our gm who has left the team next to no wiggle room to make moves for the next few years w/o destroying the farm


2 d men are needed, long term solutions
2 wingers are needed
big question in net


and rochester is a mess

TM:
GP - 29
Goals - 2
Assist - 6
+/- minus 5

Top pairing

I agree with the reasoning for making the moves, but besides the O'Reilly one, I question whether they were the right ones.

What worries me is if we do finish bottom 5, Murray feels pressure and makes moves based on fear of his job
- sbroads24

on paper, I will still maintain the kane trade was a fair trade
if kane and bogo are healthy and focused



the sens trade still makes no sense and will be a massive overpayment unless bubble boy is a healthy fringe top ten goalie IMO

TM:
GP - 29
Goals - 2
Assist - 6
+/- minus 5
- Irish 14

50% possession player

7 even strength points, which put him with John Carlson, Mike Green, Paul Martin and a few others in even strength scoring.

He's been just fine in WPG, and I don't miss him at all at this point

I know someone said it earlier, but I'd also like to see Eichel get some time on the wing. He hasn't been that "effective" as a center. Question is, who rounds out that line?

Does he go up with O'Reilly, do you break up the top line and put Reinhart at C for him?

X-O'Reilly-Eichel

or

X-Reinhart-Eichel

Where do you put Kane in either of these situations?

TM:
GP - 29
Goals - 2
Assist - 6
+/- minus 5

Top pairing
- Irish 14

really, that is what we gave up for kane, ror, bogo and a bubble boy between the pipes


7 first rounders
2 31st overalls
35th overall
- homiedclown

That's the measurement of what we gave up.

I told you that you aren't properly measuring the return.

Maybe its time to reed more.

I know someone said it earlier, but I'd also like to see Eichel get some time on the wing. He hasn't been that "effective" as a center. Question is, who rounds out that line?

Does he go up with O'Reilly, do you break up the top line and put Reinhart at C for him?

X-O'Reilly-Eichel

or

X-Reinhart-Eichel

Where do you put Kane in either of these situations?
- stashu

I would prefer eichel to play lw, if he could


eichel/ror/ennis
kane/girgens/skunk

not jumping the bridge, giving my opinion on our gm who has left the team next to no wiggle room to make moves for the next few years w/o destroying the farm


2 d men are needed, long term solutions
2 wingers are needed
big question in net


and rochester is a mess
- homiedclown

Break this down though

2 d-men needed.
-they still needed a #1 type anyways, so Zadorov wasn't a "huge" loss since 3-5 guys are easier to get

2 wingers needed - no good ones were traded away, so no loss

goal - again, no moves made that made that position worse, and potentially a move that made it much better than it was