#1. Mashinter has no business being on this roster. His presence on a line makes that line absolutely useless. The strength of this team has (historically) been with their ability to roll 4 lines. With him on a line that is instantly cut to 3. The other bottom line (3rd or 4th, whatever you want to call it) isn't doing much either, so that makes 2. The "top" line of (instert player here)-Toews-Hossa isn't producing regularly. So we'll say 1.5 reliable lines. That's not good enough.

#2. What's the deal with Hossa? Passes he usually takes in stride are jumping off his stick, uncharacteristic turnovers, inability to score (even on breakaways), looking slower than ever before, and taking really stupid penalties (that interference last night, for example). Either his age is catching up to him quickly or something's not right. To me, the first line has looked more dangerous without him on it.

I know people want to argue along the lines of "oh but Toews and Hossa are so good at possessing the puck in the offensive zone, wearing the other team down," but that only matters if you're scoring. Fact is, they're not, so all that possession is going to waste, much like the hitting the Ducks were doing in the WCF last year.

#3. Teuvo and Dano both look way more comfortable at RW than they do at LW, but there simply aren't enough spots to put them both there. I would argue that right now it's more important to have Tuevo at RW because he's shown the ability to produce effectively there.

#4. I'm happy to see Daley coming around (a bit). Looks like he's playing more comfortably now than he was a couple weeks ago. He's still a liability in the defensive end and is really bad at board battles, but he hasn't been getting caught out in the offensive zone as much as he used to.

What I'd like to see is this:

Garbutt-Toews-Teuvo
Panarin-AA-Kane
Dano-Kruger-Hossa
Tikho/Desi-Kero-Shaw

I liked the way Garbutt played with Toews when Hossa was out. Seemed like he was playing quickly, decisively, and got himself in dangerous spots. I just don't know if Teuvo is strong enough to play the cycle game that Toews likes. If not, you may have to swap him with Dano (or Hossa).

Line 2 stays line 2 because it's the only one producing.

Line 3 is strong, defensively reliable, and has some creativity that can hopefully provide some scoring.

Line 4 is another defensively reliable line that should be especially good at pestering the other team. Shaw gets under everyone's skin, Kero is already trusted on the PK because of his defensive game, and although not flashy at all, from what I've seen Tikhonov is a pretty reliable defensive forward. Not sure why he's in the dog house. I'd like to see him get some play over Desi.

I went back and counted all the picks and who they turned into. This is factual. All they have to show for that talent sell-off is Forsling and Danault.
- John Jaeckel

But did you REALLY MEAN THAT IS ALL??

It also netted 2 more cups...and each deal in 2010 impacted the decisions moving forward (Oduya, Vermette, etc...).

Could they have won more, maybe, could they have won less, maybe.
- MADzilla11

You are stretched out very wide on this...
My point stands...the net result of having to dump ready made talent was 2 players...One that doesn't seem to have an NHL future and another with questionable upside.

Your logic is faulty if it goes beyond the point written in the blog.

You are stretched out very wide on this...
My point stands...the net result of having to dump ready made talent was 2 players...One that doesn't seem to have an NHL future and another with questionable upside.

Your logic is faulty if it goes beyond the point written in the blog.
- Al

Ok. Then all those teams that fleeced Chicago of the players - which one went out and won a Cup?

Zero. Hawks went on to win two more Cups - which is the end object of the game

Not to win trades. If it was to amass the best young talent, EDM can win that crown.

With success comes high value on players as well as contract demands.

How's Boston's return on Seguin doing? Pitt and Det haven't done anything since their Cups. LA is trying to find the right pieces

I went through ALL the players, prospects and draft picks (who was drafted wight eh specific picks acquired)—and what those players, prospects and picks might have been later dealt for—that they acquired for Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer and Campbell.

All they have to show for it today are Forsling and Danault.
- John Jaeckel

And Pokka for Leddy....

No wonder Stan asked for NHL players back for Saad and Sharp.

http://www.chicagotribune...-1206-20151205-story.html

I forget who it was on here that I was talking with about Panarin being homesick at first, but looks like he's adjusting well

Ok. Then all those teams that fleeced Chicago of the players - which one went out and won a Cup?

Zero. Hawks went on to win two more Cups - which is the end object of the game

Not to win trades. If it was to amass the best young talent, EDM can win that crown.

With success comes high value on players as well as contract demands.

How's Boston's return on Seguin doing? Pitt and Det haven't done anything since their Cups. LA is trying to find the right pieces
- PatShart

Now you are stating an opinion which is fine but the original point was a challenge to John's statement which there is no real argument for...Which was only 2 players were netted in the salary dump in the summer of 2010. That is a fact.

It is also amazing to come back to win 2 Cups afterward but that is a separate point.

Now you are stating an opinion which is fine but the original point was a challenge to John's statement which there is no real argument for...Which was only 2 players were netted in the salary dump in the summer of 2010. That is a fact.

It is also amazing to come back to win 2 Cups afterward but that is a separate point.
- Al

Well if the goal was to "net the best players in a trade" - then they should have traded Kane, Toews or Keith

I lost you at 5 of them being out of position. Its truly just 1.

Could be Dano....then your bottom 3 lines are the same.
- SteveRain

Haven't seen the last few games, thought TT was playing RW still.

Guess I was adding in some Dmen as well.

Ok. Then all those teams that fleeced Chicago of the players - which one went out and won a Cup?

Zero. Hawks went on to win two more Cups - which is the end object of the game

Not to win trades. If it was to amass the best young talent, EDM can win that crown.

With success comes high value on players as well as contract demands.

How's Boston's return on Seguin doing? Pitt and Det haven't done anything since their Cups. LA is trying to find the right pieces
- PatShart

My point is, 2010 and 2015, same thing. He was in a no-win situation. Had to deal talent, EVERYONE IN THE NHL KNEW IT, not a position of strength in terms of negotiating trades. We can argue ad infinitum whether he had better offers earlier on for Sharp (for example). Impossible to prove, doesn't matter.

I'm not finding fault with Bowman here, and I DO agree, the bloodletting eventually allowed them to tweak the lineup back to what became the 2013 team

But that took two years. That's my point. And with a younger core.

Losing sure makes people cranky.

They traded away role players that were making high dollars so they could keep their younger, much more skilled players that would win more championships

When you salary dump role players as they did, most always they net nothing but draft picks. That's not an opinion, it's facts (especially when they were in zero position to take any salary back)

Great blog, JJ, as usual.

If I'm the Hawks brass, I know that the older core members (Hossa, Keith, and Seabrook) may only be elite for 2-3 more years. But what does the front office do?

1) Someone here said that this reminds them of 2011-12 in that the team stunk against Phoenix and then a virtually identical roster went on the record-breaking streak of 2013. Is that what's going on here? Do the brass wait this one out and come back next year after a Bryan Bickell buyout and a few minor roster tweaks? Do they expect to miss the playoffs or go out in the first round, which allows for a long rest for all the exhausted core? This would set the sights on 2017 with the goal of 4 Cups in 8 years. Not bad, but there's no Cup repeat.

2) Do the Hawks brass look at the terrible shooting percentage for everyone this year and think of it as some bad puck luck? If one Hawk player scores on one out of every 5 breakaways that get missed, we win a few more games. If the PK tightens up even a little bit, we don't lose last night at Ottawa, nor in several other games this year. It's those little things that could make or break the season. And getting a few more breaks could allow Q to balance out the TOI a bit more such that everyone actually has energy for a potentially deeper Cup run.

3) Or is the brass hell-bent on a repeat and 4 Cups in 7 years? That's only one cup shy of Edmonton's record in the 1980's. If this is the plan, then I pull out any stops now and trade Bickell and Teuvo for a 1LW like Patrick Marleau (with salary retained). But here's the beef: how does that improve the PK or some of the bad puck luck? How does a trade make the core any less exhausted?


I really think the first step is that small things like tightening the PK and finishing even 5% more of our high-quality chances gets us in the "win" column more regularly. That takes some of the pressure off. If that happens a bit more by the trade deadline, I mortgage the future and trade Bicks and TT for any other perceived roster needs. If that doesn't happen, I sit tight and hope that it's like 2011-12 with the team primed to wreak havoc after a longer summer off. Buyout Bickell and make smaller tweaks but be ready to also mortgage the future at the 2016-17 TDL in order to win in 2017.

My point is, 2010 and 2015, same thing. He was in a no-win situation. Had to deal talent, EVERYONE IN THE NHL KNEW IT, not a position of strength in terms of negotiating trades. We can argue ad infinitum whether he had better offers earlier on for Sharp (for example). Impossible to prove, doesn't matter.

I'm not finding fault with Bowman here, and I DO agree, the bloodletting eventually allowed them to tweak the lineup back to what became the 2013 team

But that took two years. That's my point. And with a younger core.
- John Jaeckel

And I don't want him making trades just for the sake of making them, the way Shero did in PITT which completely gutted the organization

So just giving away an NHL defenceman in Daley so Svedburg or Gustafson can hopefully learn on the job would turn the D core into the hot mess PITT has been

They need to continue to grind it out and learn to play as a team. The veterans that have offensively been....well, offensive - need to pick their game up and hopefully they will this month

Ok. Then all those teams that fleeced Chicago of the players - which one went out and won a Cup?

Zero. Hawks went on to win two more Cups - which is the end object of the game

Not to win trades. If it was to amass the best young talent, EDM can win that crown.

With success comes high value on players as well as contract demands.

How's Boston's return on Seguin doing? Pitt and Det haven't done anything since their Cups. LA is trying to find the right pieces
- PatShart

That's right but this season is the first that the Hawks are actually paying their 2 biggest stars what they are worth. They have certainly got their money's worth before now.

Is Toews deciding to become an enforcer to be blamed on the cap? Just seems like he's frustrated with the state of the team - he better get used to that now he & Kane are getting big dollars. He can ask Sid how he's coped playing with all kinds of players on his wings.

It's funny I copied 1 of the posts from here last week on the Pens board without names & you could put Pens players names in the gaps & it would be spot on!

In a cap world this is probably the first year your GM will have to really earn his money, & the next 8 with those huge contracts on the books.

Injuries is another thing you guys have avoided very well, so we'll see how you go from here.

I went through ALL the players, prospects and draft picks (who was drafted wight eh specific picks acquired)—and what those players, prospects and picks might have been later dealt for—that they acquired for Byfuglien, Ladd, Versteeg, Brouwer and Campbell.

All they have to show for it today are Forsling and Danault.
- John Jaeckel

I understand that, which is why I said it was black and white cause there is more grey to it

i.e. cap space, Kevin hayes

they hit on a couple picks or trades (which were never going to be for top prospects) and its a different story right now

I agree with you, that SB can be criticized...but he is doing this much better than anyone else (helps when you have stanley cup champion winning players to trade)

My point is, 2010 and 2015, same thing. He was in a no-win situation. Had to deal talent, EVERYONE IN THE NHL KNEW IT, not a position of strength in terms of negotiating trades. We can argue ad infinitum whether he had better offers earlier on for Sharp (for example). Impossible to prove, doesn't matter.

I'm not finding fault with Bowman here, and I DO agree, the bloodletting eventually allowed them to tweak the lineup back to what became the 2013 team

But that took two years. That's my point. And with a younger core.
- John Jaeckel

Your point was correct and factual and any other other argument is subjective.
I could make a case if they didn't have to trade/dump anyone in 2010 they would have won as many Cups if not more but that too is irrelevant.

My point is, 2010 and 2015, same thing. He was in a no-win situation. Had to deal talent, EVERYONE IN THE NHL KNEW IT, not a position of strength in terms of negotiating trades. We can argue ad infinitum whether he had better offers earlier on for Sharp (for example). Impossible to prove, doesn't matter.

I'm not finding fault with Bowman here, and I DO agree, the bloodletting eventually allowed them to tweak the lineup back to what became the 2013 team

But that took two years. That's my point. And with a younger core.
- John Jaeckel

I'll say this....I just went back and reviewed all of Bowman's trades since he took over.

the biggest thing to keep an eye for is what the Hawks do best at times.....trade a prospect of theirs who has run it's course and trade it in for a better version. Ruutu for Ladd, Skille for Frolik, Jimmy Hayes/Dylan Olsen for Versteeg . Oduya for 2 draft picks, etc.

Those are the sort of trades that quickly rebuild a team AND save you money.

Now maybe he has 1 already done with Anisimov and Dano for Saad. Lets hope so.

I don't see it with Daley and Garbutt for Sharp. SO I am writing that one off.

The question is, can the Hawks scouts find a guy in an organization that they feel they can plug into their crazy metric system and make it a "win" for Bowman without giving up the bank? That's how I see Bowman fixing this, because baring a miracle, and yes it is the Christmas season, to wish upon a Bickell star leads no where........

They traded away role players that were making high dollars so they could keep their younger, much more skilled players that would win more championships

When you salary dump role players as they did, most always they net nothing but draft picks. That's not an opinion, it's facts (especially when they were in zero position to take any salary back)
- PatShart

In 11?

Those sheds were simply to become cap compliant. They weren't trading salary to keep others except for Hammer... and Hammer was only marginally younger than Ladd and Buff.

Campbell was an age/salary choice. So too was Sharp.

I'll say this....I just went back and reviewed all of Bowman's trades since he took over.

the biggest thing to keep an eye for is what the Hawks do best at times.....trade a prospect of theirs who has run it's course and trade it in for a better version. Ruutu for Ladd, Skille for Frolik, Jimmy Hayes/Dylan Olsen for Versteeg . Oduya for 2 draft picks, etc.

Those are the sort of trades that quickly rebuild a team AND save you money.

Now maybe he has 1 already done with Anisimov and Dano for Saad. Lets hope so.

I don't see it with Daley and Garbutt for Sharp. SO I am writing that one off.

The question is, can the Hawks scouts find a guy in an organization that they feel they can plug into their crazy metric system and make it a "win" for Bowman without giving up the bank? That's how I see Bowman fixing this, because baring a miracle, and yes it is the Christmas season, to wish upon a Bickell star leads no where........
- SteveRain

The miracle deal to come needs to be hinged on getting rid of Bickell or Daley otherwise the checkbook balance come the TDL will be low.

Your point was correct and factual and any other other argument is subjective.
I could make a case if they didn't have to trade/dump anyone in 2010 they would have won as many Cups if not more but that too is irrelevant.
- Al

They can fix this relatively quickly......

72,15,19,81,88,65,16......you hold on to within reason. Meaning 16 stays in his 4th line slot and is paid accordingly. 65 is too versatile like Versteeg to deal regardless of his penalties.

You need 56/86 to hit. 86 to be a top 6 player and 56 to be an energy top 9 player.

On D....2/4/7 good to go. 57 continues to make progress and you need 2 more. Preferably 1 with wheels that isn't a moron, and another veteran to help mentor new prospects on the 3rd pair.

I would deal Bickell and sweeten it with whatever pick/prospect (within reason) to get it done...find a team with a player who fits Qs system and hope to find a Ladd or Frolik type reward.

Play Darling a lot to see what he can do and if he can show he can be a #1, then plan B is if you have to spend to expedite the rebuild you deal 50 at the draft.......

In 11?

Those sheds were simply to become cap compliant. They weren't trading salary to keep others except for Hammer... and Hammer was only marginally younger than Ladd and Buff.

Campbell was an age/salary choice. So too was Sharp.
- tredbrta

The core at the time was Kane-Toews-Hossa-Sharp-Bolland-Keith and Seabrook.
Everyone else was available in 2010 and that core stayed intact until Bolland was dealt.

You know who the Hawks could really use right now...Kevin Hayes There's the big top line winger that StanBo drafted. Let the Hayes hate club begin....

They can fix this relatively quickly......

72,15,19,81,88,65,16......you hold on to within reason. Meaning 16 stays in his 4th line slot and is paid accordingly. 65 is too versatile like Versteeg to deal regardless of his penalties.

You need 56/86 to hit. 86 to be a top 6 player and 56 to be an energy top 9 player.

On D....2/4/7 good to go. 57 continues to make progress and you need 2 more. Preferably 1 with wheels that isn't a moron, and another veteran to help mentor new prospects on the 3rd pair.

I would deal Bickell and sweeten it with whatever pick/prospect (within reason) to get it done...find a team with a player who fits Qs system and hope to find a Ladd or Frolik type reward.

Play Darling a lot to see what he can do and if he can show he can be a #1, then plan B is if you have to spend to expedite the rebuild you deal 50 at the draft.......
- SteveRain

True... but they need the cap space Daley or Bickell would open up and then Bowman would have something to work with.

The miracle deal to come needs to be hinged on getting rid of Bickell or Daley otherwise the checkbook balance come the TDL will be low.
- Al

I would do both....but Daley is probably more realistic without Bowman doing a RTS on Bickell OR giving up a high pick or prospect.

Next question for those who follow the hogs.....are there guys down there that can come up and fill roles or are these guys still years away?

I mean is Mashinter getting such a long look to prove he's NOT Kyle beach who he was traded for? Because I don'ts see why he continues to play....