My suggestion for staying positive is remembering that its only December. Hockey is a long season. Living in NJ, and being surrounded by mostly Devils fans, I will never forget the year that the Devils were basically eliminated from the playoffs by 1/1 and made an outrageous comeback and just barely missed the playoffs by 1 or 2 pts posting some insane record. I like it cant be done.

I really think this team isn't that far off from achieving what everyone thinks they can. Sure our D is a little suspect, but we knew that. We also brought in a crap ton of new players and we have to figure out what works and what doesn't.

These boards have become downright depressing lately. I want CPF back and Bullies and GIF wars and Bartley and all the things that made these boards fun in the first place. Rather than everyone making these boards a contest of "I am more right than you are and if you don't think so, youre a RW fanboy", we should be flaming fans of other teams when they come into here and spout their poop, and make Bartley proud. We should stick by our team through thick and thin and hope against hope that they turn this poop around. Because that's what real fans do.
- thickman1178[/img]

Yes, it's a long hockey season. But year after year investing a lot of time into this team and getting disappointed is wearing off on me. I consider myself lucky - I have been a fan for all 3 Cups. I survived the late 90s/early 2000's. But I am telling you, the dark years for me were more exciting. Because we were the underdogs, you always root for the underdog. Now we have "two of the best players in the world". We didn't have that in the Straka/Lang years.

I am trying to stay positive, but as of now I am not seeing the light at the end of this tunnel.

So what are your ideal lines then? How do you think we could improve our forward depth under the current salary cap conditions? Still driving the trade Malkin bandwagon?

I think GMJR has done a wonderful job of putting together a F group, but the coaching absolutely sucks. From our 5 on 5 to our PP, its pathetic. Our D is a bit suspect, but that's the one place where we are getting what people ask for and that's to play the young guys, but then they cry and complain that they aren't all stars from the get go. Granted it would help more if our all stars (Crosby, Letang) played like all stars.
- thickman1178

I still like
Simon Crosby Hornquist
Perron Malkin Kessel
Sprong Bonino Bennet
Sundquist Fehr Dupuis
Cullen
Letang Dumoulin
Cole(Matta) Clendening
Pouliot Lovejoy

Congrats everyone on one of the most entertaining threads in a long time. I know Thanksgivving is past but God am I thankfully none of you run or coach the Pens.

I was a Harrington fan but he was never, to me, in the same class as Maatta, Dumo and Pouliot. I think Clendening not only replaced him nicely but is a nice upgrade.
- Dcoms

Agreed. You called it on Dumoulin. He looks quite promising. If he can get better at body positioning and add some physicality with his size like Despres did, he could end up being a really nice player.

Do you really think MJ at practice is basically saying, OK for the PP lets all just stand around motionless in our designated spots and pass the puck around, then Crosby when you're on the ice if you dont have an unobstructed lane between 3 players just quit on the play and come back to the bench, well let the other lines clean up. Oh and also its perfectly acceptable to spend most of the game in our end of the ice letting teams like Buffalo put up 50 shots against us. As long as we play our game.
- sammy87

IF that is what's happening, no I don't think its MJ saying to do that. But it sure as damn hell is his job to fix it and make it work.

Maybe you keep Niskanen two years ago? Maybe you keep Martin last year? Maybe you use one of our last 2 seasons 1st rounders, plus this years first rounder on a defensemen instead of more forwards. 3 first rounders for Kessel and Perron...

And it also comes back to the two superstar model, you trade Malkin or Crosby a year or two ago you get a solid #2 center and a top 4 D plus more young assests and draft picks... You have your opinion, I have mine, but the way this team is trending is not good.
- Willaged

Chicago seems to be doing quite well with the 2 superstar model, LA seems to do pretty well with a 2C,1D model to the one the Pens use. It may not have worked out to your liking but them is definitely proof that it can work very well in this league if the rest of the roster is constructed properly.

Left Center Right

Crosby Malkin Kessel

Kunitz Bonino Sprong

Perron Fehr Hornquist

Plotkinov Cullen Bennett


Dupuis
- Misterbator

My Nephew is 9 and even he laughed at those lines. They are so flawed I don't even want to get into it. But why would the best face off guy on the team be a left wing now? My Nephew is also a hockey prodigy so maybe he just already gets it.

It's a cap world. We have no money to spend on defense, we've lost Orpik, Niskanen, Martin and Ehrhoff in the last two years. And yes, some needed to go to make room for our young guys, but it's blatantly obvious we are in desperate need of a top 4 D man, and it was obvious before the season even started, yet we blew our load on more fire power up front. Having 25 million tied up in 3 forwards (one of who a work ethic and conditioning has always been in serious question) is not good business in a cap world.
- Willaged

So between Orpik, Niskanen, and Martin, which one were you willing to keep around given their age, ability and in comparison to the contracts they negotiated with other teams that we would have needed to meet? Orpik and Nisaknen are way overpaid and Paul-Mart, for as solid a player as he is, not only didn't want to be here anymore, but was getting on in years, which is one of the staple complaints we always have about our D.

Only Ehrhoff would have been worth keeping around and he didn't really show us much in his time here that we didn't think someone like Pouliot could provide for cheaper.

Chicago seems to be doing quite well with the 2 superstar model, LA seems to do pretty well with a 2C,1D model to the one the Pens use. It may not have worked out to your liking but them is definitely proof that it can work very well in this league if the rest of the roster is constructed properly.
- jaydogg1974

...and the team system is well designed and plays to the roster's strengths.

I agree with that last part. But 87/71 have full NMCs. They'll leave if, and only if, they want to. So proposals claiming that is some panacea to this organization are baseless. Not to mention, almost everyone thought Malkin is the one that should be traded and right now he is by far the best skater on this team.
- jfkst1

I agree, and I think you'd agree some sort of Shake up is needed. Shero F'd is by going all in EVERY year, by trading all our high picks and prospects, and now GMJR who was hired to right the ship has done the exact same thing. He's traded 3 1st's and Despres for Perron, Kessel and Lovejoy... And this team is no better and officially now has no future... It's now or never.. We should have went the Detriot route... Yzerman/Lidstrom had Zetterberg/Datsyuk inslulating them in their older years and then passed the torch, now you have Zetterberg/Datysuk in their older years and the next generation of Tatar/Larkin/Nyquist are insulating them and are ready to receive the torch... Yes, Detroit is the model franchise of the league, but you can't have that if you don't draft and develop prospects... Right now we should ideally have 2-3 quality 20-23 year olds in the line up taking attention away from Sid and Geno and ready to take the torch... But we don't because we traded everything away and continue to do so hoping we can get the magic beans that finally brings us back to glory..... Ahhh I'm just frustrated where this team has gone.. And we've traded so many young assests the only way to get some back is trading a stud...

Anyways, I gotta hang some Christmas lights. Argue with you gents later! Lol

Do you really think MJ at practice is basically saying, OK for the PP lets all just stand around motionless in our designated spots and pass the puck around, then Crosby when you're on the ice if you dont have an unobstructed lane between 3 players just quit on the play and come back to the bench, well let the other lines clean up. Oh and also its perfectly acceptable to spend most of the game in our end of the ice letting teams like Buffalo put up 50 shots against us. As long as we play our game.
- sammy87

MT is doing a fine job in MTL. But to add to your point, Crosby has basically lead a mutiny against 3 coaches now if this were true. Thats like T.O level of selfishness.
- sammy87

Want to talk about a team that gets by on goaltending look no further than Montreal. Now that Condon and Tokarsky are all that they have watch them come back do n to earth in a free fall

- Misterbator

I didn't realize AI was a Red Sox fan. WTF?

My Nephew is 9 and even he laughed at those lines. They are so flawed I don't even want to get into it. But why would the best face off guy on the team be a left wing now? My Nephew is also a hockey prodigy so maybe he just already gets it.
- Dcoms

Crosby can still technically take the draws, but I think we both know that Center might be a little too much skating for Sid "the Kid" right now, don't you?

Mario should coach this team...and his first move should be to put his captain in the press box.

Sidney Crosby is the best player in hockey...still.

He's just playing like crap most of the time because he just doesn't have a true desire to play the game right now.
- icedog97

Crosby has 12'points in his last 11 games. Or something close to that. Why do you people have to dwell on the beginning of the season?

I am still trying to figure out the Simon Depres trade...
- Misterbator

Don't hurt yourself.......... Every GM is going to blunder once in a while. And that's his biggest one. Dezzy is not having that great a year so far but he was great in the playoffs last year.

Want to talk about a team that gets by on goaltending look no further than Montreal. Now that Condon and Tokarsky are all that they have watch them come back do n to earth in a free fall
- Dcoms

Condon have played more games than Price.

My Nephew is 9 and even he laughed at those lines. They are so flawed I don't even want to get into it. But why would the best face off guy on the team be a left wing now? My Nephew is also a hockey prodigy so maybe he just already gets it.
- Dcoms

My youngest son is 4 and he and I were watching some Penguins highlights—

"Dad?"

"Yes son?"

"Is that REALLY the best player in the world"

" No, son"

*switch to a Blackhawks game*

"That's the best player"

Ok, and you think they/Sid would have responded to Hynes? I mean he is coaching NJ and NJ this year still plays like NJ of the years past.
- chimpira

I think Hynes would be playing more WBS guys and those guys would be giving it their all because they love him. Then again Sullivan is the same in a much smaller sample size. Hynes is working with what he has in NJ which at forward is not too much at all. In his case a defense first system is a great idea.

You say that after every post, yet you still respond.
- sammy87

Because I don't know it's you until I already have a thought and have started typing.

- j.boyd919

Oh I just spit beer all over my couch. Still got a giggle, long night in the ER.

My suggestion for staying positive is remembering that its only December. Hockey is a long season. Living in NJ, and being surrounded by mostly Devils fans, I will never forget the year that the Devils were basically eliminated from the playoffs by 1/1 and made an outrageous comeback and just barely missed the playoffs by 1 or 2 pts posting some insane record. Not like it cant be done.

I really think this team isn't that far off from achieving what everyone thinks they can. Sure our D is a little suspect, but we knew that. We also brought in a crap ton of new players and we have to figure out what works and what doesn't.

These boards have become downright depressing lately. I want CPF back and Bullies and GIF wars and Bartley and all the things that made these boards fun in the first place. Rather than everyone making these boards a contest of "I am more right than you are and if you don't think so, youre a RW fanboy", we should be flaming fans of other teams when they come into here and spout their poop, and make Bartley proud. We should stick by our team through thick and thin and hope against hope that they turn this poop around. Because that's what real fans do.
- thickman1178[/img]

Never really found Bartley to be all that interesting or the messiah all you other guys did. He did have an impersonator a month or so ago on here. What happened to that guy?

Crosby has 12'points in his last 11 games. Or something close to that. Why do you people have to dwell on the beginning of the season?
- Dcoms

I'm not...this is in reference to MJ putting Sid with Kunitz and Dupes.

Clearly Sid is still not a 'happy' hockey player and his coach is trying to appease him.

Crosby has 12'points in his last 11 games. Or something close to that. Why do you people have to dwell on the beginning of the season?
- Dcoms

Good point. He just hasn't looked good doing it. His line is getting scored on constantly. There is something wrong with him this season and I agree with most he doesn't look like he's having fun. Who knows what the cause of that is. Didn't I see him and Hornqvist arguing on the bench last game? Now they move Kunitz there. I'm probably the biggest crosby supporter I know but he's off and it needs fixed.

Agreed. You called it on Dumoulin. He looks quite promising. If he can get better at body positioning and add some physicality with his size like Despres did, he could end up being a really nice player.
- jfkst1

I'd like him to develop a little more nastyness like Despres did too. Despres was a sheep that one day woke up and said I'm gonna be a rabid wolf now because this being a sheep thing is not getting me anywhere. A bunch of punches later, including laughing at Evander Kane for a whole fight, he was much improved across the board. He's still the only dman we have had recently that could carry Scudmuffin.