Nice blog, reiterates what I've been saying since last year. The Penguins have swung so far away from what they did well under Bylsma that they aren't even recognizable anymore. The Penguins needed to become more detail-oriented on defense. Instead they've sacrificed everything that made them tough to play against on offense in the name of decreasing quality scoring chances, and it's made them totally ineffective.

New coach, looser system, more fun, let the hockey players play hockey and everything will change almost instantaneously.

Johnston was a Mickey Mouse hire, a junior coach with no idea what it takes to play in the NHL. I'd rather have just kept Bylsma, it was certainly more fun.

Nice blog, reiterates what I've been saying since last year. The Penguins have swung so far away from what they did well under Bylsma that they aren't even recognizable anymore. The Penguins needed to become more detail-oriented on defense. Instead they've sacrificed everything that made them tough to play against on offense in the name of decreasing quality scoring chances, and it's made them totally ineffective.

New coach, looser system, more fun, let the hockey players play hockey and everything will change almost instantaneously.

Johnston was a Mickey Mouse hire, a junior coach with no idea what it takes to play in the NHL. I'd rather have just kept Bylsma, it was certainly more fun.
- hardnosed

Johnston strong early showing last year before injuries made it hard to argue his methods... and the injuries excuse we were so very use to hid this issues until now.

Not defending, just saying it was hard to truly predict this with that many players hurt.

Johnston strong early showing last year before injuries made it hard to argue his methods... and the injuries excuse we were so very use to hid this issues until now.

Not defending, just saying it was hard to truly predict this with that many players hurt.
- Guile

The thing that gets me is that the Pens, even when decimated with injuries last year, played better than they have this year with a stacked and healthy lineup.

Its not time to "open things up" as some people believe. We will get crushed. Run and gun has worked 3 times in this organizations history, thats it. During those times we had decent defensive depth. Johnston is handcuffed by the weak D and has no choice but to play a defensive system. JR is hanging MJ who's still squeaking with a 10-7 record. MJ is damned between a rock and hard place until he gets D help.
- brienstel

There is a difference between playing a solid defensive system and what is going on now.

The thing that gets me is that the Pens, even when decimated with injuries last year, played better than they have this year with a stacked and healthy lineup.
- jfkst1

I don't want to offend people, but is there a chance that they're just not good? I mean, I know this team was restructured around analytically-sound players like Kessel, Fehr, and Bonino to replace guys like Sutter, Spaling, and Lapierre. But, is it totally out of the realm of possibility that this mix of players just aren't working together regardless of coaching?

Johnston strong early showing last year before injuries made it hard to argue his methods... and the injuries excuse we were so very use to hid this issues until now.

Not defending, just saying it was hard to truly predict this with that many players hurt.
- Guile

Part of me thinks it's like old coaching regime residual. I think when they switched from Therrian to Bylsma the players still had some of Therrian's system and tendencies in their blood. They went on to win the cup. As the Byslma period carried on all of those Therrian tendencies diminished. I think the first half of last year they still had Bylsma in their blood and kept some of those offence tendencies but as time has gone on under Johnson, those Bylsma tendencies have diminished.

Just a theory.

I don't want to offend people, but is there a chance that they're just not good? I mean, I know this team was restructured around analytically-sound players like Kessel, Fehr, and Bonino to replace guys like Sutter, Spaling, and Lapierre. But, is it totally out of the realm of possibility that this mix of players just aren't working together regardless of coaching?
- jmatchett383

Not all chemistry experiments are a success...

I don't want to offend people, but is there a chance that they're just not good? I mean, I know this team was restructured around analytically-sound players like Kessel, Fehr, and Bonino to replace guys like Sutter, Spaling, and Lapierre. But, is it totally out of the realm of possibility that this mix of players just aren't working together regardless of coaching?
- jmatchett383

I think it is extraordinarily unlikely that almost every single player on the team is way underperforming their recent career standards simultaneously. If they aren't good, it is still worth exploring different coaching to confirm that.

I don't want to offend people, but is there a chance that they're just not good? I mean, I know this team was restructured around analytically-sound players like Kessel, Fehr, and Bonino to replace guys like Sutter, Spaling, and Lapierre. But, is it totally out of the realm of possibility that this mix of players just aren't working together regardless of coaching?
- jmatchett383

Also want to add to this the bottom 6, where most of the new personnel reside, have looked/played pretty good a lot of the games together.

I think it is extraordinarily unlikely that almost every single player on the team is way underperforming their recent career standards simultaneously.
- jfkst1

Probably not, but that's not exactly what I was asking. Similar to (but also unlike) the 1979 Challenge Cup, the NHL All-Stars got beat by the Soviet Union, including a 6-0 loss is Game 3. They had talent, and it wasn't a fact of all the players forgetting how to play. It was more than the Soviets were a better team.

Now, the Challenge Cup was a loosely thrown-together group who had limited practice time. But the similarity is that gathering a group of good players does not necessarily translate to a good team. And that is my question: despite the individual skill of the players, is it possible that the team construction as a whole is flawed?

The thing that gets me is that the Pens, even when decimated with injuries last year, played better than they have this year with a stacked and healthy lineup.
- jfkst1

Yes, pretty much... But I wasn't doing a comparison. The issues from last year are in this year, but just got worse over time. But who is really going to decide issues last year with that decimated lineup were real issues to fix over the summer? They obviously didn't take that approach, and Hell, logically, I can't blame them.

Also want to add to this the bottom 6, where most of the new personnel reside, have looked/played pretty good a lot of the games together.
- MattStrat

I haven't had a chance to watch many games this season (and I was honestly asking, not forming an opinion) so I'll take your word on it. I will say that I didn't think that Kessel of Crosby's wing was a good idea.

Part of me thinks it's like old coaching regime residual. I think when they switched from Therrian to Bylsma the players still had some of Therrian's system and tendencies in their blood. They went on to win the cup. As the Byslma period carried on all of those Therrian tendencies diminished. I think the first half of last year they still had Bylsma in their blood and kept some of those offence tendencies but as time has gone on under Johnson, those Bylsma tendencies have diminished.

Just a theory.
- MattStrat

Not really a theory, its true. Remember the Bylsma "stretch pass" system he loved... HCMJ hated that and pledged to get rid of it. What came back in a HUGE way once we had injuries? The (frank)ing stretch pass.

Team is undisciplined.

Probably not, but that's not exactly what I was asking. Similar to (but also unlike) the 1979 Challenge Cup, the NHL All-Stars got beat by the Soviet Union, including a 6-0 loss is Game 3. They had talent, and it wasn't a fact of all the players forgetting how to play. It was more than the Soviets were a better team.

Now, the Challenge Cup was a loosely thrown-together group who had limited practice time. But the similarity is that gathering a group of good players does not necessarily translate to a good team. And that is my question: despite the individual skill of the players, is it possible that the team construction as a whole is flawed?
- jmatchett383

Flawed team construction is certainly a possibility. But that is going to require a lot of roster moves that will be difficult to make in season. If the team is going to fail, they should be still be exhausting all available options. The first being the coach recognizing that his current lineup isn't working (which has somewhat been explored). The second is altering the team system- which can come about from either the current coach or a new one.

Flawed team construction is certainly a possibility. But that is going to require a lot of roster moves that will be difficult to make in season. If the team is going to fail, they should be still be exhausting all available options. The first being the coach recognizing that his current lineup isn't working (which has largely been explored). The second is altering the team system- which can come about from either the current coach or a new one.
- jfkst1

Most coaches have a system that they want to run. They can tweak it, but a complete overhaul usually requires a new coach.

And yes, if they construction is flawed, there is no quick solution, which is why I asked: Is it possible (yet improbable) that they're just not a good team?

Most coaches have a system that they want to run. They can tweak it, but a complete overhaul usually requires a new coach.

And yes, if they construction is flawed, there is no quick solution, which is why I asked: Is it possible (yet improbable) that they're just not a good team?
- jmatchett383

It's definitely possible. But they sucked before firing Therrien too so until the team system is changed, one way or another, I'm not going to concede that the team roster is inadequate either.

Nice blog, reiterates what I've been saying since last year. The Penguins have swung so far away from what they did well under Bylsma that they aren't even recognizable anymore. The Penguins needed to become more detail-oriented on defense. Instead they've sacrificed everything that made them tough to play against on offense in the name of decreasing quality scoring chances, and it's made them totally ineffective.

New coach, looser system, more fun, let the hockey players play hockey and everything will change almost instantaneously.

Johnston was a Mickey Mouse hire, a junior coach with no idea what it takes to play in the NHL. I'd rather have just kept Bylsma, it was certainly more fun.
- hardnosed

I hindsight, I can't argue any of this. Including Bylsma > Johnston.

I dont think firing Bylsma was the wrong move. In fact, it might have come a season too late. But the choice of replacement was poor. For some reason my common sense ignored the junior coach with a quiet demeanor coaching a team of stars with huge expectations...

I haven't filled my Mike Sullivan quota yet today so...

#BetterCallSull

Obviously... the Pens should have just thrown 50 mil at Babcock to come here and banked on a good season so ownership can sell and retire.

Babcock fixes everything AMIRIGHT?

It's definitely possible. But they sucked before firing Therrien too so until the team system is changed, one way or another, I'm not going to concede that the team roster is inadequate either.
- jfkst1

You're going back about 8 years. If that's the case, then the Flyers are 2 games shy of being a Stanley Cup winner.

Again, to concede it, no, it could (and quite likely is) at least partially to blame on coaching. Just throwing it out as a possibility that the mix isn't working regardless of coaching. That was all.

I don't want to offend people, but is there a chance that they're just not good? I mean, I know this team was restructured around analytically-sound players like Kessel, Fehr, and Bonino to replace guys like Sutter, Spaling, and Lapierre. But, is it totally out of the realm of possibility that this mix of players just aren't working together regardless of coaching?
- jmatchett383

I have an idea. Lets test it! Fire Johnston and hire a new guy to see if they are still as bad. Thats the only logical step in your theory.

Obviously... the Pens should have just thrown 50 mil at Babcock to come here and banked on a good season so ownership can sell and retire.

Babcock fixes everything AMIRIGHT?
- Guile

Honestly, I always thought Babcock was good but overrated. I have to admit, now based on how Detroit and Toronto have looked this season, I can see why he is so highly valued. I don't think there is any chance the Pens would look like this with Babcock as coach.

I have an idea. Lets test it! Fire Johnston and hire a new guy to see if they are still as bad. Thats the only logical step in your theory.
- Zac_O

Hey, I'm all for it. Problem is, 18 games into a season, there's not a lot of options.

Hey, I'm all for it. Problem is, 18 games into a season, there's not a lot of options.
- jmatchett383

Bigger "problem" in firing him is the Pens are in a playoff spot at 10-7 thanks to goaltending. So fair or not, they probably won't fire Johnston unless the results start looking ugly.

Bigger "problem" in firing him is the Pens are in a playoff spot at 10-7 thanks to goaltending. So fair or not, they probably won't fire Johnston unless the results start looking ugly.
- jfkst1

10-4 since the sky stopped falling.

Honestly, I always thought Babcock was good but overrated. I have to admit, now based on how Detroit and Toronto have looked this season, I can see why he is so highly valued. I don't think there is any chance the Pens would look like this with Babcock as coach.
- jfkst1

So... build a time machine, make Mario throw 50 million at Babcock.

I'll take care of the 50 million, you get the time machine ready... Also I'll need to use the time machine to cheat at the lottery, and betting... (frank) it, I'll just buy the Penguins and hire Babcock myself.

Also add some blackjack, and hookers....


BENDER OUT!