I am not fair weather fan and I am not excited about the roster . I heard Scooby write earlier that he would only be interested if there were certain players , he has followed them diligently for years. Nucker I can speak for him and Bloated ,don't seem to thrilled about this roster.

You put the same thing out year after year , people will get bored. Just like the divorce rate , people do become disinterested
- VANTEL

I can understand the desire to see certain players make the club.

Hopefully JB keeps his word about trading a vet if a rookie earns a spot.

Might be the most competition for prospects going into camp than many have ever seen.

Change is happening. And even if some aren't happy with the lineup the second week of the season, injuries and opportunities will mean guys like Cassels will get a look if they don't make it out of camp.

We could easily see a player or two exposed to waivers if guys can't be traded.... okay, maybe not easily.

I'd like to say I am just curious about the roster, but I am a little hopeful that a dark horse will emerge and shake it up a bit.

Lucic-Horvat-Virtanen

But you are still here everyday discussing the team, as are for the most part others who are disappointed with the teams direction. They are still engaged because they likely have been supporting this team for years and are not willing to walk away.

The fair weather fans that I refer to are the ones who only come out when the team is winning,
- belcherbd

That is just wrong. Have you ever been a season ticket holder?

Why do ballpark crowds , football stadiums , and hockey arena withere in attendance when teams suck.

Fans want to and have the right to be entertained. Look at the BC Lions crowds this year. After three years the fans are bored. I use to go to games but haven't in two years now because the product is not worth me spending my money on.

Bloated has spent close to 100 thousand on the Canucks over the years, but now decided he doesn't think the product in entertaining to waste his money on it. Is he a fair weather fan?

I will watch every game this year , win or lose, but I am far from excited . I am not a fair weather fan

Lucic-Horvat-Virtanen
- LeftCoaster

Can't wait.

Lucic-Horvat-Virtanen
- LeftCoaster

make some trades and get the cap space to sign Lucic...

make some trades and get the cap space to sign Lucic...
- hillbillydeluxe

I think people need to understand the process is just starting with this management team, they've been on the job for a year and a half, yet they've brought in several changes to the line-up.

It's gonna happen, it's just not gonna happen quickly. I'll post something below from a response over at Canucks Army, I think it's good.

"All of Benning's moves for veterans have taken the form of either stop-gap solutions who will bridge us to kids who aren't ready yet (Millar, Vrbata), necessary depth pieces (Bartkowski), or complimentary players who will play a strong and reliable supporting role for a future young team (Sutter, Prust, Dorsett).

Short of actively trying to lose Sabres-style, which is not a strategy I agree with, there's not much more Benning could be doing to rebuild.

Some people choose an all-or-nothing approach, and assume that any move that makes the team older is a move away from a rebuild, but I strongly disagree. Even a young team that's moving into prime years needs a strong leadership group of veteran players.

Balance is important. Not allowing a losing culture to take hold is important, because it can be difficult to break free from that once it does. The last thing I want is to end up with a team a few years from now that has a bunch of young talent but no cohesion as a group.

That's not the way you build a winner. That's the way you build a team with lots of cap room, youngsters who never develop a complete game and are thrust into prominent positions before the time is right, therefore scoring more than their talent level, demanding huge contracts that fill up the available cap space, and leaving the team hard-pressed to fill the voids that still exist.

In that situation, nobody accepts a home discount during RFA years, no UFA comes to the team without overpayment, and every GM in the league asks for one of your highly paid kids the second you try to address your needs through trade. It's not a good place to be, and averaging 5-10 spots or so higher in drafts is nowhere near worth the trade-off."
- LeftCoaster

Been saying this til I couldnt bare to repeat myself anymore. Way too many "I don't get it's" from Bloated.

Unless we fluke out another 101 pt season the (more) changes are coming maybe as soon as TDL. Hopefully the excitement level will rise with a whack of new faces next season. Player changes are maybe a bit slower than people liked due the mess that Benning has to clean up left by Gillis... but it will happen. Sedins are going nowhere but there is a real possibility that Hamhuis Burrows Edler Higgins and even Hansen might be on different clubs next year. Hopefully Lucic here with a couple of punishing DMEN.
- LordHumungous

The future is the future, but right now the interest level is low. That's all I am saying. I think the Canucks go on a ten game losing streak crowds will diminish

I can understand the desire to see certain players make the club.

Hopefully JB keeps his word about trading a vet if a rookie earns a spot.

Might be the most competition for prospects going into camp than many have ever seen.

Change is happening. And even if some aren't happy with the lineup the second week of the season, injuries and opportunities will mean guys like Cassels will get a look if they don't make it out of camp.

We could easily see a player or two exposed to waivers if guys can't be traded.... okay, maybe not easily.

I'd like to say I am just curious about the roster, but I am a little hopeful that a dark horse will emerge and shake it up a bit.
- hillbillydeluxe

Change is definitely happening , but we still have Higgins Burrows and an aging core that is not getting better

Lucic-Horvat-Virtanen
- LeftCoaster

That is just wrong. Have you ever been a season ticket holder?

Why do ballpark crowds , football stadiums , and hockey arena withere in attendance when teams suck.

Fans want to and have the right to be entertained. Look at the BC Lions crowds this year. After three years the fans are bored. I use to go to games but haven't in two years now because the product is not worth me spending my money on.

Bloated has spent close to 100 thousand on the Canucks over the years, but now decided he doesn't think the product in entertaining to waste his money on it. Is he a fair weather fan?

I will watch every game this year , win or lose, but I am far from excited . I am not a fair weather fan
- VANTEL

No, I haven't been a season ticket holder and likely will never choose to spend my money that way. I don't get your point? I know you are not a fair weather fan and by being here discussing this team, positively or negatively, you prove that.

Were you not entertained last year? Because I sure was, it was fun successful season and I have said many times on here that if this team can do the same I will be stoked.

If fans choose to stop following the team because they are disappointed or frustrated with the mgmt, product, etc. that's up to them but it won't impact my enjoyment of watching hockey.

That is just wrong. Have you ever been a season ticket holder?

Why do ballpark crowds , football stadiums , and hockey arena withere in attendance when teams suck.

Fans want to and have the right to be entertained. Look at the BC Lions crowds this year. After three years the fans are bored. I use to go to games but haven't in two years now because the product is not worth me spending my money on.

Bloated has spent close to 100 thousand on the Canucks over the years, but now decided he doesn't think the product in entertaining to waste his money on it. Is he a fair weather fan?

I will watch every game this year , win or lose, but I am far from excited . I am not a fair weather fan
- VANTEL

True. Look at the two biggest markets in the CFL Vancouver and Toronto. Argos can't put 10,000 asses in the seats in a drawing radius of close to 4million people and Van has barely Averaged 20,000 fans/game in a drawing area of over 1.2 mil. The CFL is treading on dangerous ground IMO. The product has become basically unwatchable and the lack of marquee talent is at an all time low. They need to fix many things and soon. Toronto can't even sell out the NFL Bills games that are there and they want NFL in that market?

No, I haven't been a season ticket holder and likely will never choose to spend my money that way. I don't get your point? I know you are not a fair weather fan and by being here discussing this team, positively or negatively, you prove that.

Were you not entertained last year? Because I sure was, it was fun successful season and I have said many times on here that if this team can do the same I will be stoked.

If fans choose to stop following the team because they are disappointed or frustrated with the mgmt, product, etc. that's up to them but it won't impact my enjoyment of watching hockey.
- belcherbd

Up until the playoffs I was entertained. The playoffs reminded me why this team needs a full rebuild.

I don't expect a lot this year. Next year I expect a lot more. That doesn't change that fact that I still need to struggle through this year.

I think people need to understand the process is just starting with this management team, they've been on the job for a year and a half, yet they've brought in several changes to the line-up.

It's gonna happen, it's just not gonna happen quickly. I'll post something below from a response over at Canucks Army, I think it's good.

"All of Benning's moves for veterans have taken the form of either stop-gap solutions who will bridge us to kids who aren't ready yet (Millar, Vrbata), necessary depth pieces (Bartkowski), or complimentary players who will play a strong and reliable supporting role for a future young team (Sutter, Prust, Dorsett).

Short of actively trying to lose Sabres-style, which is not a strategy I agree with, there's not much more Benning could be doing to rebuild.

Some people choose an all-or-nothing approach, and assume that any move that makes the team older is a move away from a rebuild, but I strongly disagree. Even a young team that's moving into prime years needs a strong leadership group of veteran players.

Balance is important. Not allowing a losing culture to take hold is important, because it can be difficult to break free from that once it does. The last thing I want is to end up with a team a few years from now that has a bunch of young talent but no cohesion as a group.

That's not the way you build a winner. That's the way you build a team with lots of cap room, youngsters who never develop a complete game and are thrust into prominent positions before the time is right, therefore scoring more than their talent level, demanding huge contracts that fill up the available cap space, and leaving the team hard-pressed to fill the voids that still exist.

In that situation, nobody accepts a home discount during RFA years, no UFA comes to the team without overpayment, and every GM in the league asks for one of your highly paid kids the second you try to address your needs through trade. It's not a good place to be, and averaging 5-10 spots or so higher in drafts is nowhere near worth the trade-off."
- LeftCoaster

Wow... he's the... anti-Nucker! Who'd have thunk it?

But seriously, this is exactly what people like Booner, myself and others keep saying. The idea that going for the highest draft pick is somehow going to make us a contender is assinine. Let's not forget how every single first rounder, top 3/5/10 or beyond is talked up by fans (fair weather or not) as saviours of the franchise. That's a LOT of pressure to put on an 18-year old kid's shoulders. Unless you're a sure-fire talent like a Crosby or McDavid or Eichel, that's hard to manage. Losing begets losing until losing becomes more than a habit, it becomes a culture and those kinds of cultures are very hard to change once ingrained.

Change is definitely happening , but we still have Higgins Burrows and an aging core that is not getting better
- VANTEL

They're still not at the point where someone's ready to take those spots though, close, but a year away. Thus this will be a patience year, in that regard.

They're still not at the point where someone's ready to take those spots though, close, but a year away. Thus this will be a patience year, in that regard.
- LeftCoaster

I could name three players off the top of my head I would rather see than Higgins and don't think they would be worse for wear

I think people need to understand the process is just starting with this management team, they've been on the job for a year and a half, yet they've brought in several changes to the line-up.

It's gonna happen, it's just not gonna happen quickly. I'll post something below from a response over at Canucks Army, I think it's good.

"All of Benning's moves for veterans have taken the form of either stop-gap solutions who will bridge us to kids who aren't ready yet (Millar, Vrbata), necessary depth pieces (Bartkowski), or complimentary players who will play a strong and reliable supporting role for a future young team (Sutter, Prust, Dorsett).

Short of actively trying to lose Sabres-style, which is not a strategy I agree with, there's not much more Benning could be doing to rebuild.

Some people choose an all-or-nothing approach, and assume that any move that makes the team older is a move away from a rebuild, but I strongly disagree. Even a young team that's moving into prime years needs a strong leadership group of veteran players.

Balance is important. Not allowing a losing culture to take hold is important, because it can be difficult to break free from that once it does. The last thing I want is to end up with a team a few years from now that has a bunch of young talent but no cohesion as a group.

That's not the way you build a winner. That's the way you build a team with lots of cap room, youngsters who never develop a complete game and are thrust into prominent positions before the time is right, therefore scoring more than their talent level, demanding huge contracts that fill up the available cap space, and leaving the team hard-pressed to fill the voids that still exist.

In that situation, nobody accepts a home discount during RFA years, no UFA comes to the team without overpayment, and every GM in the league asks for one of your highly paid kids the second you try to address your needs through trade. It's not a good place to be, and averaging 5-10 spots or so higher in drafts is nowhere near worth the trade-off."
- LeftCoaster

All of this is fair and makes sense but it doesn't mean that Benning is choosing the right players to build a team with. The criticism true or false has been that people don't agree with the players he values ( or the price he pays for them) as either a stop gap or long term solution.

Personally I would rather this team to continue to compete even if that means barely missing some years. I would also be stoked to see him stockpile draft picks over stockpiling high priced "character" because I disagree with the idea that the latter is more important to the former when building a team.

This isn't me taking an opportunity to get back into the same debates rehashed all off-season, but pointing out that is where the criticism has come from, at least from me and I think others as well. I think there is a greater population frustrated with his player choices opposed to his plan or refusal to tank.

I could name three players off the top of my head I would rather see than Higgins and don't think they would be worse for wear
- VANTEL

Ok him I can agree with ---------------->

Up until the playoffs I was entertained. The playoffs reminded me why this team needs a full rebuild.

I don't expect a lot this year. Next year I expect a lot more. That doesn't change that fact that I still need to struggle through this year.
- VANTEL

Fair enough, I shelled out for my first playoff game this year and it was by far the most entertaining game or high priced event I have ever been to. Granted it was the game 2 win.
Disappointed that the team lost, especially game 6 being up 4-1 ? 4-0?, but I was still entertained.

All of this is fair and makes sense but it doesn't mean that Benning is choosing the right players to build a team with. The criticism true or false has been that people don't agree with the players he values ( or the price he pays for them) as either a stop gap or long term solution.

Personally I would rather this team to continue to compete even if that means barely missing some years. I would also be stoked to see him stockpile draft picks over stockpiling high priced "character" because I disagree with the idea that the latter is more important to the former when building a team.

This isn't me taking an opportunity to get back into the same debates rehashed all off-season, but pointing out that is where the criticism has come from, at least from me and I think others as well. I think there is a greater population frustrated with his player choices opposed to his plan or refusal to tank.
- belcherbd

I think he's choosing players that are available to him, what you're saying with your comment is he can go out and get whomever he wants....he can't. My assumption is he's identifying players in a certain age group that are attainable from teams...ie Vey & Baertschi.

I wish he could've got better players too, but you're only gonna get so much with a few 2nd round picks as your bait.

All of this is fair and makes sense but it doesn't mean that Benning is choosing the right players to build a team with. The criticism true or false has been that people don't agree with the players he values ( or the price he pays for them) as either a stop gap or long term solution.

Personally I would rather this team to continue to compete even if that means barely missing some years. I would also be stoked to see him stockpile draft picks over stockpiling high priced "character" because I disagree with the idea that the latter is more important to the former when building a team.

This isn't me taking an opportunity to get back into the same debates rehashed all off-season, but pointing out that is where the criticism has come from, at least from me and I think others as well. I think there is a greater population frustrated with his player choices opposed to his plan or refusal to tank.
- belcherbd

Here's the problem with this, you don't know how they're going to play. It's one thing to criticize his player choices after they've played the season. Slamming him for doing so right after he's acquired them, when maybe with the right mix of talent, they might end up being better than what they replaced, is putting the cart before the horse.

I don't want a bunch of players with skill... skill is relative, skills also can degrade due to injury/contract/chemistry issues. I want players who are willing to compete and shove the puck down the opposing team's throats if that's what it takes to win. I'm tired of the skilled "Let's-all-stay-on-the-perimeter-and-pass-it-around-and hold-it-against-the-boards-until-the-perfect-pass-or-shot-opens-up" cycle team.

Ok him I can agree with ---------------->
- LeftCoaster

I don't mind the new second line for this year ,but look forward to next years second line more.

I just cant wrap my head around watching Higgins take up a spot , score 13 goals and fade after Xmas.

I think he's choosing players that are available to him, what you're saying with your comment is he can go out and get whomever he wants....he can't. My assumption is he's identifying players in a certain age group that are attainable from teams...ie Vey & Baertschi.

I wish he could've got better players too, but you're only gonna get so much with a few 2nd round picks as your bait.
- LeftCoaster

No, I'm not saying he can get whoever he wants and I agree he is targeting certain players. I am saying that some of player he has targeted, and for the price he has been willing to pay, I disagree with. Again I don't need to get into specifics because I think it has been said enough this summer.

I don't mind the new second line for this year ,but look forward to next years second line more.

I just cant wrap my head around watching Higgins take up a spot , score 13 goals and fade after Xmas.
- VANTEL

I'm totally anti-Higgins - I'm with ya brother....but I'm thinking he'll be gone either by the end of the year or next summer.

No, I'm not saying he can get whoever he wants and I agree he is targeting certain players. I am saying that some of player he has targeted, and for the price he has been willing to pay, I disagree with. Again I don't need to get into specifics because I think it has been said enough this summer.
- belcherbd

Well you're implying it. Vey and Baertschi were probably the only ones available he could get for what he was offering.

Anyways, you're right, I don't want to re-hash it again.