You convinced me. After a couple of days of training camp, with a brand new coach, B. Schenn is obviously in the doghouse and on the outs. Only a matter of time until he's gone.
- MJL

It certainly doesn't look like these line combos were just thrown together without much thought.

Hakstol has said multiple times that there is a clean slate and he was going into camp without any preconceived notions towards players. I doubt his intent was to make a statement. I think far too much is being read into the line combos.
- MJL

Where to begin?

Amazing how the coach with "no preconceived notions" put all the names in a blender and, stunningly enough, against all odds and preconceptions, amazingly found three lines that were together last season! It's a Training Camp Miracle!

Why, it's just a mere coincidence that Claude Giroux, Jakub Voracek and Michael Raffl are together. A crazy coincidence that somehow, Matt Read and Sean Couturier were on the same line -- who could ever have predicted such a thing?

No, you convinced ME. I'm completely wrong. The Schenns' future in Philadelphia is secure -- the fact that the Flyers went with the same lines TODAY as they did yesterday means absolutely nothing

That crazy blender just happened to spit out the same combinations again, because no way did Dave Hakstol have any preconceived notions about anybody

It certainly doesn't look like these line combos were just thrown together without much thought.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm sure there was plenty of thought given to it. I just don't think the thought that Schenn is the odd man out, was part of it. There's tons of reasons that could be speculated on why he set the lines the way he did. I think as camp moves a long, and we get closer to the season, that will be far more telling than the first couple of days in camp.

Have to play both sides of the fence, because if those combos suggest that Schenn in the odd man out, it also suggests that Lecavalier is going to center the 3rd line.

How would a coach get a read on the players on the roster, to come to a definitive decision, which shows who is on the outs, in the first days of camp. Perhaps by watching tape of last season? That would suggest then that Hakstol liked Lecavalier's play over Schenn's?

Where to begin?

Amazing how the coach with "no preconceived notions" put all the names in a blender and, stunningly enough, against all odds and preconceptions, amazingly found three lines that were together last season! It's a Training Camp Miracle!

Why, it's just a mere coincidence that Claude Giroux, Jakub Voracek and Michael Raffl are together. A crazy coincidence that somehow, Matt Read and Sean Couturier were on the same line -- who could ever have predicted such a thing?

No, you convinced ME. I'm completely wrong. The Schenns' future in Philadelphia is secure -- the fact that the Flyers went with the same lines TODAY as they did yesterday means absolutely nothing

That crazy blender just happened to spit out the same combinations again, because no way did Dave Hakstol have any preconceived notions about anybody
- AllInForFlyers

I think it's pretty obvious that the coach wants to get an early read on Lecavalier and possibly Umberger to see if they can rebound, and improve their games, and see if there is any chemistry there with Gagner. Because if what you say is true, that means that Lecavalier is opening the season, centering the 3rd line. Explain to me on what basis, Hakstol would've come up with that pre-conceived notion? Lecavalier's strong play last season, versus Brayden Schenn's poor play last season?

I think it's pretty obvious that the coach wants to get an early read on Lecavalier and possibly Umberger to see if they can rebound, and improve their games. Because if what you say is true, that means that Lecavalier is opening the season, centering the 3rd line. Explain to me on what basis, Hakstol would've come up with that pre-conceived notion? Lecavalier's strong play last season, versus Brayden Schenn's poor play last season?
- MJL

You do realize that it's possible to not like Schenn's play AND Lecavalier's play, right?

It doesn't have to be that an objective person likes both, or likes one more than the other.

There is a third option: Where a person doesn't like either

I am not putting myself in Dave Hakstol's head. I am saying that now for two days of camp, Schenn has played with two guys who just might not even make the Flyers opening night roster, and how that helps Schenn is beyond me

You do realize that it's possible to not like Schenn's play AND Lecavalier's play, right?

It doesn't have to be that an objective person likes both, or likes one more than the other.

There is a third option: Where a person doesn't like either

I am not putting myself in Dave Hakstol's head. I am saying that now for two days of camp, Schenn has played with two guys who just might not even make the Flyers opening night roster, and how that helps Schenn is beyond me
- AllInForFlyers

Don't cherry pick. If you're suggesting that where Hakstol has Schenn playing, suggests that the coach doesn't like him, or he's on the outs, or any thing else you want to make up about it, then it also suggests that Lecavalier is not on the outs.

Do you realize that the coach said don't read anything into it, and it's possible he just wants to see different combinations together? Camp is more than 3 days long.

I'll ask you one simply question. How would Hakstol determine who is in, and who is out, before camp even starts? What information would he have to go on?

I'm sure there was plenty of thought given to it. I just don't think the thought that Schenn is the odd man out, was part of it. There's tons of reasons that could be speculated on why he set the lines the way he did. I think as camp moves a long, and we get closer to the season, that will be far more telling than the first couple of days in camp.

Have to play both sides of the fence, because if those combos suggest that Schenn in the odd man out, it also suggests that Lecavalier is going to center the 3rd line.

How would a coach get a read on the players on the roster, to come to a definitive decision, which shows who is on the outs, in the first days of camp. Perhaps by watching tape of last season? That would suggest then that Hakstol liked Lecavalier's play over Schenn's?
- MJL

Not saying these are the definitive lines or pairings. I just don't believe you can dismiss it as nothing.

Not saying these are the definitive lines or pairings. I just don't believe you can dismiss it as nothing.
- PhillySportsGuy

I'm not dismissing it as nothing. I'm dismissing it as having anything to do with Schenn being in the doghouse, or it suggesting that Schenn is not part of the core going forward.

Don't cherry pick. If you're suggesting that where Hakstol has Schenn playing, suggests that the coach doesn't like him, or he's on the outs, or any thing else you want to make up about it, then it also suggests that Lecavalier is not on the outs.

Do you realize that the coach said don't read anything into it, and it's possible he just wants to see different combinations together? Camp is more than 3 days long.
- MJL

I'm not cherry-picking a thing -- I said exactly what I meant to say: It doesn't help Schenn to work with guys who might not even make the roster.

It might not hurt him. But in these days where Hakstol is saying that they want to accomplish a lot and get things off to a good start, the guy who needs a good start as much as anybody isn't playing with guys remotely guaranteed to make the roster

I'm not dismissing it as nothing. I'm dismissing it as having anything to do with Schenn being in the doghouse, or it suggesting that Schenn is not part of the core going forward.
- MJL

Feels more like the coaches are just trying to light a fire under him

I'm not cherry-picking a thing -- I said exactly what I meant to say: It doesn't help Schenn to work with guys who might not even make the roster.

It might not hurt him. But in these days where Hakstol is saying that they want to accomplish a lot and get things off to a good start, the guy who needs a good start as much as anybody isn't playing with guys remotely guaranteed to make the roster
- AllInForFlyers

"It's amazing how the media who cover the team asked the same questions yesterday about the Schenns, but "a few people" who reflexively defend him just can't seem to swallow the fact that he clearly isn't someone who the Flyers view as a core piece

Brayden Schenn is just another player on the roster who fills a role. His placement in practice shows it. His contract status shows it. His performance thus far in his career is the reason for it"


With statements like above, your tone and context was clearly saying that Hakstol viewed Schenn in the manner that you alluded to in previous posts, and nothing to do with it not being a good situation for Schenn development wise, or helping him or hurting him as a player.

He and S2TP are known Raffl haters
- PhillySportsGuy

I hate hard-working production as well.

Feels more like the coaches are just trying to light a fire under him
- PhillySportsGuy

Possibly, But I think it has far more to do with the coach has a pretty good idea on 3 lines and is undecided how the other line will form, so he wants to look at different combinations.

"It's amazing how the media who cover the team asked the same questions yesterday about the Schenns, but "a few people" who reflexively defend him just can't seem to swallow the fact that he clearly isn't someone who the Flyers view as a core piece

Brayden Schenn is just another player on the roster who fills a role. His placement in practice shows it. His contract status shows it. His performance thus far in his career is the reason for it"


With statements like above, your tone and context was clearly saying that Hakstol viewed Schenn in the manner that you alluded to in previous posts, and nothing to do with it not being a good situation for Schenn development wise, or helping him or hurting him as a player.
- MJL

Actually, I said that yesterday that it doesn't help Schenn, but I feel totally comfortable saying he isn't a core piece, too

Actually, I said that yesterday that it doesn't help Schenn, but I feel totally comfortable saying he isn't a core piece, too
- AllInForFlyers

My comments were in rebuttal to your comments today, not yesterday.

My comments were in rebuttal to your comments today, not yesterday.
- MJL

So? Still relevant, because the lines are the same today

Hakstol reportedly has said via Twitter that the lines might change for tomorrow, so we shall see

So? Still relevant, because the lines are the same today

Hakstol reportedly has said via Twitter that the lines might change for tomorrow, so we shall see
- AllInForFlyers

Whether it's good for Schenn or not, is a different conversation.

Actually, I said that yesterday that it doesn't help Schenn, but I feel totally comfortable saying he isn't a core piece, too
- AllInForFlyers

A core piece would have a contract by now. That being said, he'll be an RFA so there isn't a lot of urgency to sign him right now. Still, that's not how you treat a player you're building your team around.

I don't think there's any doubt Schenn needs to step it up this season, but playing him on the "5th" line isn't going to help anything. Hexy was in LA when Brayden was drafted, and for all we know he's never liked the player, hence the willingness to trade him to Philly in the 1st place.

All speculation - and a lot can and likely will change in a the coming weeks - but I wouldn't be encouraged by my linemates if I were BSchenn.

- KINGKENZO

Butter is hydrating.

Funny you bring up what we were able to get for Coburn who not only had an off season but also couldn't remain healthy. So much is being made of Radko Gudas and I hope he meets these very high expectations that fans have created for him. At the end of the day though, Gudas was still traded. Tampa's defense was already good before the trade, Gudas is like 6 years younger than Coburn and makes like a quarter of what Coburn makes. If Tampa was that high on Gudas, they could have afforded to wait out his injury. How far over the top does Brayden Coburn put you with the type of season he was already having?
- SuperSchennBros

One thing to keep in mind is the flyers traded an old player in zhitnik for a much younger coburn. Sometimes teams make trades to get more experience and sacrifice youth. I'm not comparing the two trades directly, but hopefully we end up getting a solid younger defenseman for an older one again. I don't know much about gudas so he will be one that I'm watching closely in the preseason to see what we have

A core piece would have a contract by now. That being said, he'll be an RFA so there isn't a lot of urgency to sign him right now. Still, that's not how you treat a player you're building your team around.

I don't think there's any doubt Schenn needs to step it up this season, but playing him on the "5th" line isn't going to help anything. Hexy was in LA when Brayden was drafted, and for all we know he's never liked the player, hence the willingness to trade him to Philly in the 1st place.

All speculation - and a lot can and likely will change in a the coming weeks - but I wouldn't be encouraged by my linemates if I were BSchenn.
- wolfhounds

Not necessarily. Core players go into the last year of their deal as RFA's all the time in the NHL. The player has a say also. There's any number of reasons why Schenn and the team haven't come to an agreement on a new contract at this point.

Look at the deal that Brandon Saad just signed.

I think hakstol has 6 guys he's looking at to fill the third line. Given his choices, I think he came up with vinny line and Laughton line. I don't think anyone is in the doghouse and he's trying to see what he has. As we start getting to the preseason games, we will see what hakstol is really thinking. If Laughton is being given a shot to play 3rd line center, then Brayden schenn being placed with him doesn't translate to doghouse to me. In fact I see it as more likely that Laughton centers schenn than vinny centers umberger based on last season.

A core piece would have a contract by now. That being said, he'll be an RFA so there isn't a lot of urgency to sign him right now. Still, that's not how you treat a player you're building your team around.

I don't think there's any doubt Schenn needs to step it up this season, but playing him on the "5th" line isn't going to help anything. Hexy was in LA when Brayden was drafted, and for all we know he's never liked the player, hence the willingness to trade him to Philly in the 1st place.

All speculation - and a lot can and likely will change in a the coming weeks - but I wouldn't be encouraged by my linemates if I were BSchenn.
- wolfhounds

Maybe schenn thought he could play his way into a better offer this season. We don't know if the flyers offered something and schenn turned it down. Both sides might have been unsure, who knows

Not necessarily. Core players go into the last year of their deal as RFA's all the time in the NHL. The player has a say also. There's any number of reasons why Schenn and the team haven't come to an agreement on a new contract at this point.

Look at the deal that Brandon Saad just signed.
- MJL

Yup, you're right (although Chicago is a different beast organizationally), but with the way Hexy and the Flyers locked up Jake and Couts, you'd think they'd lock up BSchenn as well. Now maybe they tried to lowball him and he refused, wanting to have a breakout season this year and get a bigger payday. I'm cool with that (as long as the payday is within reason). We'll know more soon enough.