Well I have faith they assessed these players and feel they are too far down the depth chart to keep them for the sake of it. Could be more to come, we shall see.

It's not like Grabner is some X all star 35 year old; he's still young and could have some great years ahead of him; or even just a good season under babcock with the leafs and we get a pick in return for Hunter.
- Lucas.Neilson

What they did is give up prospects for PTO hopefuls. Nothing more.

Grabner has worth at the NHL level.

Chances at him getting us a return that we can use (pick/prospect) are better than all of those other players becoming anything for Toronto.

I didnt make that decision thats just my assumption as to why they made this trade.

Hoping for a decent return or sign him, and remove guys they didn't want.
- Lucas.Neilson

This reminds of the famous line

"A boats a boat, but the mystery box can be anything. It might even be a boat!"

it's not genius, it's glaringly obvious, and there is a greater risk to it backfiring, especially when trading away prospects...Leafs have had a great history in that department.
- vermie22

either way, i think this deal has absolutely zero impact on anything in any way. Grabner sucks. the prospects traded by the Leafs suck. and whoever they sign with those last 5 contract spaces will, like the last 5 contracts on any team, suck. it's just a bit of housecleaning/paper shuffling.

You guys want Raymond back?
- geta02it

nope! but thanks for asking - no take back!!!

he was great for 1/2 a season a $1M/year deal.

only thing the Leafs did wrong with Raymond was not flipping him for a pick at the trade deadline.

what are you talking about?

their loading up on one year contracts

they intend to let these guys re-establish their careers if they can and flip them for whatever they can get

the plan is so glaringly obvious i have a hard time fathoming how some people on here cant see it.
- Dozzer

I see your idea of it, and just don't see how it equates practically. Best case scenario for me is everything pans out.. And they get what they basically gave up back. That's a lot of circle to be back at square one. Ive had a hard time fathoming how that can be endorsed.

The preaching has been about the more assets the better, and developing our own prospects. That was the logic boasted when trading out of the 1st round in June. That mentality was just stomped all over on both fronts.

I haven't seen any examples of such a move being beneficial in the past. It's not like collecting PTO's have been pinpointed as the new poor mans way of stocking a prospect pool, especially when you're moving out prospects to make it happen.

What they did is give up prospects for PTO hopefuls. Nothing more.
- LeafMan

prospects that would have never made it anyways

at least if the PTO hopefuls they can be flipped for assets

JVR-Kadri-Grabner
Lupul-Bozak-PAP
Winnik- Matthias - Panik
Komarov- Spaling - Holland

ex. Arcobello

plus the 3 forward PTO's..

I'm assuming at least one of the 3 PTO will make the team..at least. Even if Glencross & Boyes make it..where do they really fit? I have a feeling someone will obviously need to be put on waivers (and will most likely be claimed), or be traded like what happened with Colborne. I'm thinking Holland or Panik.. that's only if any of the 3 PTO's have a good camp and Holland/Panik struggle.. seems crowded up front though. Will be fun to watch come Monday!

edit: plus, if Grabner plays well and puts up points, etc.. he can be flipped at the deadline for a pretty decent return.

either way, i think this deal has absolutely zero impact on anything in any way. Grabner sucks. the prospects traded by the Leafs suck. and whoever they sign with those last 5 contract spaces will, like the last 5 contracts on any team, suck. it's just a bit of housecleaning/paper shuffling.
- DoubleDown

yup.

but they reduced the size the upcoming camp... and based on some VERY informed commentary yesterday... that is VERY VERY important.

prospects that would have never made it anyways

at least if the PTO hopefuls they can be flipped for assets
- Dozzer

that likely will never make it anyways. how can you be so certain the new assets will be that much better than the assets they gave up? or that they will get as many? or any at all?

Whaaaat?

Ok.. i will counter

say setoguchi makes the team and earns a 1 year contract

a second line with him and grabner gets put together

they enjoy some success getting top 6 mins

flipped at the deadline for a 2nd each

leafs get their seconds back.. drafted in line with what hunter and dubais are building

ta da.
- Dozzer

Maybe. But I think a lot of people think pump n dump is gonna fix their roster probs this year. See Schultz, Justin; and Yakupov, Nail;

Yea, Finn's not a loss... he seems to be done as a prospect.

Verhaege, Nilsson, and Beck for Grabner is the way I see it.... not really a fan of the trade. Nothing team-destroying though. Much to the president's dismay, I'm sure.
- Feeling Glucky?

When I first seen the trade I didn't like it but more I think about it so many guys have move past them on the depth chart. They brought in Soshnikov, Hyman, Bailey plus guys like rodewald, joly and Brouillard who were at camp. This trade was just about trimming the fat from the old regime. Only player I'm iffy about is Gibson seeing is that he was their best goalie prospect last year.

JVR-Kadri-Grabner
Lupul-Bozak-PAP
Winnik- Matthias - Panik
Komarov- Spaling - Holland

ex. Arcobello

plus the 3 forward PTO's..

I'm assuming at least one of the 3 PTO will make the team..at least. Even if Glencross & Boyes make it..where do they really fit? I have a feeling someone will obviously need to be put on waivers (and will most likely be claimed), or be traded like what happened with Colborne. I'm thinking Holland or Panik.. that's only if any of the 3 PTO's have a good camp and Holland/Panik struggle.. seems crowded up front though. Will be fun to watch come Monday!
- MCharisma91

the Leafs have literally become the NHL's refugee camp

How does this fit with being patient with our prospects. Kind of gave up on Finn pretty quickly considering he was injured most of last year.

I saw him play quite a few times for the Storm. I never felt he would be a 1st pairing guy, but thought he might develop into a decent NHL D man.

Grabner? Really? is he even better than Boyes or Glencross?

I see your idea of it, and just don't see how it equates practically. Best case scenario for me is everything pans out.. And they get what they basically gave up back. That's a lot of circle to be back at square one. Ive had a hard time fathoming how that can be endorsed.

The preaching has been about the more assets the better, and developing our own prospects. That was the logic boasted when trading out of the 1st round in June. That mentality was just stomped all over on both fronts.

I haven't seen any examples of such a move being beneficial in the past. It's not like collecting PTO's have been pinpointed as the new poor mans way of stocking a prospect pool, especially when you're moving out prospects to make it happen.
- joel878

Clearly the Leafs, who have looked at these prospects day-in and day-out for much longer than you have, disagree about their value.

A prospect isn't a vague, intangible thing. It's a person. The Leaf brass didn't think these people would have become good hockey players, and would rather give their contracts to other players with higher ceilings.

Glad you put Panik is this. Kid deserves a shot to start the year. He was one of the only players last year who i was happy with. I think his ceiling is solid 3rd liner/2nd liner at best.

JVR-Kadri-Grabner
Lupul-Bozak-PAP
Winnik- Matthias - Panik
Komarov- Spaling - Holland

ex. Arcobello

plus the 3 forward PTO's..

I'm assuming at least one of the 3 PTO will make the team..at least. Even if Glencross & Boyes make it..where do they really fit? I have a feeling someone will obviously need to be put on waivers (and will most likely be claimed), or be traded like what happened with Colborne. I'm thinking Holland or Panik.. that's only if any of the 3 PTO's have a good camp and Holland/Panik struggle.. seems crowded up front though. Will be fun to watch come Monday!
- MCharisma91

the Leafs have literally become the NHL's refugee camp
- DoubleDown

I remember we were an old folks home like 4 years ago

I see your idea of it, and just don't see how it equates practically. Best case scenario for me is everything pans out.. And they get what they basically gave up back. That's a lot of circle to be back at square one. Ive had a hard time fathoming how that can be endorsed.

The preaching has been about the more assets the better, and developing our own prospects. That was the logic boasted when trading out of the 1st round in June. That mentality was just stomped all over on both fronts.

I haven't seen any examples of such a move being beneficial in the past. It's not like collecting PTO's have been pinpointed as the new poor mans way of stocking a prospect pool, especially when you're moving out prospects to make it happen.
- joel878

This is my problem as well. Just restarting the clock on likely the same quality prospects.

Bozak for Grabner would have been a better deal

Glad you put Panik is this. Kid deserves a shot to start the year. He was one of the only players last year who i was happy with. I think his ceiling is solid 3rd liner/2nd liner at best.
- lotempio8119

definitely! I love Panik. The only reason he was let go by Tampa is because there was no room for him, not because he was bad. I like how he played last year. I said this before, he reminds me of a younger Kulemin. Lays the good hit, takes a hit, can pot in a few goals, etc.

When I first seen the trade I didn't like it but more I think about it so many guys have move past them on the depth chart. They brought in Soshnikov, Hyman, Bailey plus guys like rodewald, joly and Brouillard who were at camp. This trade was just about trimming the fat from the old regime. Only player I'm iffy about is Gibson seeing is that he was their best goalie prospect last year.
- HealthyScratch6

They are going to end up signing that goalie stiff they brought to rookie camp from Kingston, wasting another contract, just wait and see.

nope! but thanks for asking - no take back!!!

he was great for 1/2 a season a $1M/year deal.

only thing the Leafs did wrong with Raymond was not flipping him for a pick at the trade deadline.
- BorjeFan4Ever

If we said please?

Auston Matthews here we come

JVR-Bozak-Grabner
Lupus-Kadri-PAPsmear
Matthias-Holland-Boyes
Komarov-Spaling-Winnik
Arcobello

Young rebuilding team
- AdamFrench

Yup. BB/DN gave us guys like Biggs, Ross and the goat with firsts and seconds. Already Bracco, Dermott and others picked lower have impressed more in one rookie camp.
- lumlums

don't rip on Freddie the Goat.

the others have at it.

They are going to end up signing that goalie stiff they brought to rookie camp from Kingston, wasting another contract, just wait and see.
- LeafMan

they have to, as they need someone for the ECHL.