Plus are below Marner, Nylander and Goats, and Percy, Harrington, Valiev and Dermott respectively on the depth chart.

And don't anybody give me this weak "Marner and Nylander are wingers" bullpoop (Nylander is over 190lbs now, is that big enough for a centre...?)
- lumlums

I'm not as concerned about a big centre as I am about a centre who can play hard, strip the puck, and make some plays

Spare parts for a second/third liner. Good trade.

Jeff O'Neill 40 goal scorer.... PTO that sucker
- TheMussel

I think the thing that all of those 30 goal scorers have in common, is that they only did it once, and have been cursing on that the rest of their careers.



I may be wrong.
- bixll

gets me really excited for Semin

(no this is not the first time i have said this)

gets me really excited for Semin

(no this is not the first time i have said this)
- DoubleDown

Semin might actually do stuff. Whether or not it's enough to push the Habs over the hump is the question.

Grabner = 30 goal scorer
JVR = 30 goal scorer
Seto = 30 goal scorer
Boyes = 30 goal scorer
Bozak = 20+ goal scorer
PAP = 20+ goal scorer
Lupul = 20+ goal scorer
Kadri = 20+ goal scorer

Just saying...
- Not_Stee

yes

Spare parts for a second/third liner. Good trade.
- twiztedmike

Grabner gets PK time also, one of the SHG leaders the last few years.

he had hernia surgery...is healthy now apparently.
Even in reduced time/role/injury over the past 3 seasons scored at a 20 goal pace.

Its not crazy to think with top 6 minutes PK/PP time, he can become a decent movable piece at the deadline.

Grabner gets PK time also, one of the SHG leaders the last few years.

he had hernia surgery...is healthy now apparently.
Even in reduced time/role/injury over the past 3 seasons scored at a 20 goal pace.

Its not crazy to think with top 6 minutes PK/PP time, he can become a decent movable piece at the deadline.
- senstroll

Although we should start a pool to see whether he or Lupul breaks first

gets me really excited for Semin

(no this is not the first time i have said this)
- DoubleDown

I bet.. All in the same boat. Semin seems to do things when he wants, I think he is better than these guys, just even lazier.

Plus are below Marner, Nylander and Goats, and Percy, Harrington, Valiev and Dermott respectively on the depth chart.

And don't anybody give me this weak "Marner and Nylander are wingers" bullpoop (Nylander is over 190lbs now, is that big enough for a centre...?)
- lumlums

Well considering...

William Nylander 5 ft 11 in 194 lb
Doug Gilmour 5 ft 10 in 175 lb

... I'd say yes.

How's things Paul?

Is it really the same?

The fact that those prospects were deemed to be not as good as the walk-ons that replaced them - which is what allowed them to become expendable?

Is that really a Rask for Raycroft trade?
Is that really moving Steen for Stempniak? Which 1st rounder did we ship out again?

You stick to the PTO stance like glue, but that wasn't even the reason the deal was made. Guys who nobody saw coming (except management who clearly invited them for a reason) pushed out our own draftees and that's got armchair GMs in a huff.

That's all there is to it
- TheThrill

If you choose a player because of one or two games over players that were scouted for a year or two, then you're making assumptions on very little to go on. There is a reason these guys were not drafted by every team. To go on one or two games gets you a signed contract like the stiff Donaghey because of it and a wasted contract.

It's not ironic, they didn't give away prospects for those players to have spots, it's a huge difference but you refuse to see that and then you go writing off prospects never given a chance. This is typical fans following along. Like Rask, Boyes, Steen (to some extent) etc.. The whole idea about prospects is that you develop them, one year out of junior is not enough time to just throw away but what do I know except the history of what the Leafs repeatedly have done.
- LeafMan

Well it is a little bit of a stretch to compare the prospects we gave away with guys like Boyes, Steen and Rask who were first round draft picks that could actually crack the NHL roster

Yesterday, we lost 5 prospects. But in the past draft we gained many more. In the big picture, the Leafs will try to place emphasis on better prospects and not quantity. Quantity can always be supplemented by free agent acquisitions of recent NCAA graduates, strong training camp candidates, etc.

None of these prospects lost was guaranteed to be an NHLer

Edit: I agree it is worrying and goes against what the organization promised - patience and development. I understand the worry as the Leafs seemed to be headed in a good direction & after they hired Lou Lamouriello you definitely get a feeling like everything changes.

Semin might actually do stuff. Whether or not it's enough to push the Habs over the hump is the question.
- TheMussel

i think it will end up being a disaster and he will be off the time by New Year's.

Although we should start a pool to see whether he or Lupul breaks first
- TheThrill

i will take Lupul

i think it will end up being a disaster and he will be off the time by New Year's.
- DoubleDown

I'm excited!

gets me really excited for Semin

(no this is not the first time i have said this)
- DoubleDown

Well it is a little bit of a stretch to compare the prospects we gave away with guys like Boyes, Steen and Rask who were first round draft picks that could actually crack the NHL roster

Yesterday, we lost 5 prospects. But in the past draft we gained many more. In the big picture, the Leafs will try to place emphasis on better prospects and not quantity. Quantity can always be supplemented by free agent acquisitions of recent NCAA graduates, strong training camp candidates, etc.

None of these prospects lost was guaranteed to be an NHLer
- twiztedmike

Gotta disagree considering the moves made with Nashvilles first rd pick.

I think the thing that all of those 30 goal scorers have in common, is that they only did it once, and have been cursing on that the rest of their careers.



I may be wrong.
- bixll

I think you meant to say 'cruising on that' but what you said actually makes sense as well.

I think you meant to say 'cruising on that' but what you said actually makes sense as well.
- Phenom

yes

If you choose a player because of one or two games over players that were scouted for a year or two, then you're making assumptions on very little to go on. There is a reason these guys were not drafted by every team. To go on one or two games gets you a signed contract like the stiff Donaghey because of it and a wasted contract.
- LeafMan

I get that, but you honestly don't think those other players were scouted in the OHL or wherever they came from? Like they just got a rookie tournament invite out of nowhere based on pulling names from a hat?

You honestly think the rookie camp was the only evaluation they had of those players? Come on, if anything it was just the final proving ground. Management knew that not everybody could stay, so they made a call on the guys they thought were better. I trust they would know more than you or I

Gotta disagree considering the moves made with Nashvilles first rd pick.
- markmark

Well, to me, it seems they had Dermott in mind and felt they could get the guy they wanted. Each organization has their own player rankings and value they place on a player & then there is the perceived value by other organizations. If you think you can get your guy later, then trade down & get more assets!

were any of those prospects in the top 10 Leafs prospects?
Doubtful

CV and Finn probably have an outside chance at being NHL players...but not very impactful ones imo.
- senstroll

one constant - all were poor skaters.

Gotta disagree considering the moves made with Nashvilles first rd pick.
- markmark

It sounds like they were targeting Dermott at 24 anyways...if they were..they made some great moves

It's not ironic, they didn't give away prospects for those players to have spots, it's a huge difference but you refuse to see that and then you go writing off prospects never given a chance. This is typical fans following along. Like Rask, Boyes, Steen (to some extent) etc.. The whole idea about prospects is that you develop them, one year out of junior is not enough time to just throw away but what do I know except the history of what the Leafs repeatedly have done.
- LeafMan

I agree that this deal is not the same as the deadline deals.....I also understand the sentiment that this is what Leaf brass has always done, which explains the skepticism.

The thing is, this deal is not like others of the past because the potential of the kids dealt yesterday is nowhere near the potential of the youngsters and 1st round picks that previous regimes have dealt away for quick fix veterans. Plus, I just instinctively have faith this regime knows what it's doing and will stick to their plan.

It sounds like they were targeting Dermott at 24 anyways...if they were..they made some great moves
- senstroll

I like Dermott but he is same as Finn. People are putting recent picks ahead of players that were in junior and had better numbers.