Though I agree with you, in the regular season I would gladly take an instigator penalty over having Crosby fighting Dubinsky.
- MacPatty

This, too.
Listen, my solution is simple. If Dubinsky wants to take liberties with Crosby (which he always does), then have a TEAM mentality that Dubinsky is going to feel pain, either by legal checks and/or illegal slashes, cross checks, or punches to the face. Pursue him doggedly so that he gets the message. Same for ANY player who takes liberties. Just have a TEAM mentality to stand up for your teammates. Don't worry about points in the regular season - take a stand and let it be known. We don't need a goon who won't get a fight from guys who take liberties outside of his weight class or stars like Ovechkin.

Sestito can play hockey, he's got great hands. Once scored 50 in junior. I could see him playing with Crosby and Kessel and putting up 100 pts.

Sestito can play hockey, he's got great hands. Once scored 50 in junior. I could see him playing with Crosby and Kessel and putting up 100 pts.
- Scooby_Doo

Tostito can't play hockey on the NHL level and is a brain-damaged punching bag. Either get a REAL enforcer like John Scott, McGrattan, etc. or get a guy like Prout, Engelland who can actually play and who nobody wants to fight. But even as I say this, I realize fighting has become staged nonsense and most of the cheap shots come from guys who aren't going to drop them with a true heavyweight - they will just hide behind their own goon and nothing is avenged or accomplished.

Do you really think a guy like this is going to keep players from taking runs at Sid and geno? It's not going to keep Dubinsky or staal from taking little cheap shots at them. What happens when you send sestito out against Dubinsky, Couterier, or someone else he ends up taking a penalty or getting scored on
- drummer829

Then you have Steve Downie, or any other "deterrent". Happens like 90% of the time, which is why this is a pointless PTO signing

This, please. Kill two birds with one stone. You can't tell me that guys like Prout, Engelland, etc. are worse than our current bottom pairing slugs.
- thevelvetfog1

Thing is we need defenseman that can move the puck. Those two can't, and a guy who can will cost us

Your third line is Dupuis Fehr and Bennet? Interesting. Like I said, I hope you're right. I know that is the game plan. But the past 4-5 years tells a different story. It is a new dynamic but if the bottom 6 get frustrated too what are they going to do? The Flyers and the Caps most annoying guys are in the bottom 6. I think anyways. I hate those 2 teams and I don't care much about their rosters.
- Dcoms

Not really. Just drew names out of a hat. I described my ideal lines if Plotnikov and Bennett showed top 6 promise and I think my third line ended up being Perron-Bonino-Dupuis. If we run off the assumption that Bennett and Plotnikov are not top 6 forwards then I think my third line would look something like Dupuis-Bonino-Bennett.

One thing I'll say about Downie, although no halfway decent fighter was afraid of him, he had a certain unpredictable crazy to him that made him kind of scary. With Tostito you know exactly what you're dealing with. With Downie, he is liable to do anything. That being said, he wasn't an effective deterrent and was blacklisted by the refs, making him detrimental to the team (though much of it was his own fault for not being able to control his temper ala Carcillo).

One thing I'll say about Downie, although no halfway decent fighter was afraid of him, he had a certain unpredictable crazy to him that made him kind of scary. With Tostito you know exactly what you're dealing with. With Downie, he is liable to do anything. That being said, he wasn't an effective deterrent and was blacklisted by the refs, making him detrimental to the team (though much of it was his own fault for not being able to control his temper ala Carcillo).
- thevelvetfog1

Downie is a decent player. Sesito isn't a real player.

This, please. Kill two birds with one stone. You can't tell me that guys like Prout, Engelland, etc. are worse than our current bottom pairing slugs.
- thevelvetfog1

Seeing how our bottom pairing will likely be either Dumoulin or Pouliot with Lovejoy, I'd say yes, they are worse than our current slugs. However, if Scuderi is still a top 6 defenseman this year then I'll buy your argument.

Tostito can't play hockey on the NHL level and is a brain-damaged punching bag. Either get a REAL enforcer like John Scott, McGrattan, etc. or get a guy like Prout, Engelland who can actually play and who nobody wants to fight. But even as I say this, I realize fighting has become staged nonsense and most of the cheap shots come from guys who aren't going to drop them with a true heavyweight - they will just hide behind their own goon and nothing is avenged or accomplished.
- thevelvetfog1

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DqJNA9qL-_U

It's the slashes and the hooks and the extra curriculars when the refs arnt looking. Coutourier especially. Maybe because that is your team you don't notice? And yeah pretty much the same for the Caps. I remember we were winning that game until Ovie chopped Letang. That was as dirty as it gets and it threw us off our game. The Islanders? Are you kidding? Do you not remember few years ago? That game was an embarrassment for the entire NHL and it was all Islanders trying to get Talbot and Penguins trying to defend themselves. Last year we couldn't match their speed on the wings. Why are you always so condescending when someone doesn't see things the way you do, like you're so intellectually superior?
- Dcoms

That Islanders game was FIVE YEARS AGO. Most of the players, especially Gilles/Haley, are gone now. What the hell does that have to do with last year's team?

Oh, I get it: Once a player/team does something dirty against the holy Penguins, they're nothing but goons in your eyes. Got it.

I have no problem admitting that the Flyers had some dirty players. Rinaldo should have never played another game after the hit against that Buffalo rookie 2 years ago. But to paint the entire team as dirty and "a bunch of a-holes" because of a few players/instances that you don't like, is ridiculous. Is Letang dirty for picking a fight with a guy who'd never fought before? Is Malkng dirty because of his "excuse me" elbows? Is Kessel dirty for twice two-handing a player?

News flash: EVERY TEAM HAS DIRTY PLAYERS. YOUR TEAM IS NO DIFFERENT!

Thing is we need defenseman that can move the puck. Those two can't, and a guy who can will cost us
- Pens_Burgh

You can't tell me that Lovejoy and Scuderi are better puck-movers than these two. Ok, fine, then sign a 4th line winger on the level of toughness as Prout and Engelland.

You can't tell me that Lovejoy and Scuderi are better puck-movers than these two. Ok, fine, then sign a 4th line winger on the level of toughness as Prout and Engelland.
- thevelvetfog1

Lovejoy is better than both Engelland and Prout. Scuderi isn't.

Downie is a decent player. Sesito isn't a real player.
- jfkst1

Of course. But Downie was still a net negative for the Pens because of the reasons I mentioned.

You can't tell me that Lovejoy and Scuderi are better puck-movers than these two. Ok, fine, then sign a 4th line winger on the level of toughness as Prout and Engelland.
- thevelvetfog1

Or we can try this four scoring lines backed by a puck moving d line and see how that works out for us for a season. We've been doing the grit and sand paper approach to our bottom pairing and fourth line for years now and it hasn't yielded results. Let's try something new.

Lovejoy is better than both Engelland and Prout. Scuderi isn't.
- jfkst1

That's debatable - I think Lovejoy sucks.

Lovejoy is better than both Engelland and Prout. Scuderi isn't.
- jfkst1

Lovejoy is a very good 4/5 defenseman. He's not elite at anything, but he's very sound for the most part, including puck movement. Engelland was deficient in moving the puck. Can't speak for Prout. Scuderi's pretty bad all-around.

Of course. But Downie was still a net negative for the Pens because of the reasons I mentioned.
- thevelvetfog1

Downie definitely has NHL caliber skills but, as you said, his antics make him a negative.

Lovejoy is a very good 4/5 defenseman. He's not elite at anything, but he's very sound for the most part, including puck movement. Engelland was deficient in moving the puck. Can't speak for Prout. Scuderi's pretty bad all-around.
- jmatchett383

GASP... again reasonably defending Lovejoy as a solid 4-6 Dman...

Downie definitely has NHL caliber skills but, as you said, his antics make him a negative.
- jmatchett383

I didn't view him as a negative. He scored a lot of goals for a bottom 6 guy making a mil. Add in his willingness to stick up for his teammates and our penalty kill was terrific so I didn't see him hurting us as much as others.

GASP... again reasonably defending Lovejoy as a solid 4-6 Dman...
- Guile

If you play him where he should be slotted, he's adequate. If you play him in the top-3, especially as a top-pair player paired with Paul Martin, he will fail rather miserably.

Or we can try this four scoring lines backed by a puck moving d line and see how that works out for us for a season. We've been doing the grit and sand paper approach to our bottom pairing and fourth line for years now and it hasn't yielded results. Let's try something new.
- Victoro311

Ok, but the Pens were constantly being run and no one stood up for their teammates (I can count on one hand the times the Pens stood up for each other vs. the 100+ times liberties were taken with no response). Again, it needs to be a team response. Either you have at least some players with that mentality or you don't. Currently, Kunitz is the only player that comes to mind and he seems pretty tame anymore. Maybe Plotnikov will be that player. I don't want Letang, Malkin, Crosby, etc. anywhere near the rough stuff.

I didn't view him as a negative. He scored a lot of goals for a bottom 6 guy making a mil. Add in his willingness to stick up for his teammates and our penalty kill was terrific so I didn't see him hurting us as much as others.
- dbell646

Well, to each their own. I thought he never should have been allowed to play in the NHL after his preseason hit on McAmmond, so I'm biased. I don't view his moderate offensive output as enough to offset the penalties, both legit and reputation, that he takes.

Lovejoy is a very good 4/5 defenseman. He's not elite at anything, but he's very sound for the most part, including puck movement. Engelland was deficient in moving the puck. Can't speak for Prout. Scuderi's pretty bad all-around.
- jmatchett383

I don't think I'm as high on Lovejoy as you are but he is certainly a very good valued bottom pairing d man. Vanilla guy that's ok at everything. With sheltered bottom pairing minutes he provides good value for his contract even if he isn't a perfect fit in our system. You gotta separate the player from the trade that got him here.

That's debatable - I think Lovejoy sucks.
- thevelvetfog1

Engelland was a turnover machine with Bylsma's system. He'd be even more of a disaster with Johnston. Prout's another bottom pairing plug.