I know.

A lot depends on what happens next year. Does he go back to Dodgers? Does he go somewhere else.

Just right now my answer is no and I think it will be hard for him to get the numbers high enough to get in.
- J35Bacher

I think when looking at all the factors, I think he is a Hall of Fame player. I might have some bias at play though.

Talking of a possible high reward player, I know he doesn't play left wing which doesn't exactly help us but what would it take from our current roster to get a player like Anthony Mantha. didn't have the best year in the AHL and management was openly dissapointed with him but the kid has some serious upside.
- ClaudeFather

I like Mantha, and I believes others have brought him up during his draft year too. But our biggest problem is the lack of natural left wingers. I'd look for that first rather than trying to move someone around. We could do that with our own guys.

I think when looking at all the factors, I think he is a Hall of Fame player. I might have some bias at play though.
- MJL

If he stayed healthy I think he would have had a shot. I think the injuries hurt his case.

Doubt Read will get you a better, younger LW in a deal. But if he could, sure, I'd make the deal.
- BiggE

The problem as well is that he plays LW for us, quite capably with the exception of last year. So it's not really filling the hole either.

He's not done yet, although he seems to be rapidly declining. Look at Biggio's numbers over 20 years, compared to Utley's over 13.
- MJL

A couple things stand out when comparing the 2:

Biggio had 668 doubles to Utley's 346 and Biggio was the better fielder, he won 4 Gold Glove awards.

Also HofF voters take longevity into consideration, and I doubt that Utley lasts another 2 years, let alone 7 more seasons.

I seem to remember alot of negative at #19 over the years

The problem as well is that he plays LW for us, quite capably with the exception of last year. So it's not really filling the hole either.
- TheGreat28

Agreed.

Chase Utley, Hall of Fame? Yea or nay?
- MJL

Yes.

Five year stretch arguably the best all time by a 2B

I like Mantha, and I believes others have brought him up during his draft year too. But our biggest problem is the lack of natural left wingers. I'd look for that first rather than trying to move someone around. We could do that with our own guys.
- TheGreat28

What about something like B.Schenn and Hagg for Drouin? I keep seeing his name out there.

I think any B. Schenn trade, if it were to happen, would have to be at the TDL. They will give Hackstoll as much time as they can to see if they can see an upward progression

What about something like B.Schenn and Hagg for Drouin? I keep seeing his name out there.

I think any B. Schenn trade, if it were to happen, would have to be at the TDL. They will give Hackstoll as much time as they can to see if they can see an upward progression
- J35Bacher

Why would you make that move?

I seem to remember alot of negative at #19 over the years
- vejim

Absence makes the heart grow fonder?

Yes.

Five year stretch arguably the best all time by a 2B
- PhillySportsGuy

So would Howard be a HOF candidate? He put up insane numbers over a 4 year stretch

Why would you make that move?
- jak521

I would do it as i think Drouin gives you more creativity and speed.

What about something like B.Schenn and Hagg for Drouin? I keep seeing his name out there.

I think any B. Schenn trade, if it were to happen, would have to be at the TDL. They will give Hackstoll as much time as they can to see if they can see an upward progression
- J35Bacher

I'd do that deal. Tampa would not. I think Schenn's value around the league is higher than it is on this board. But Drouin's value, despite some problems in Tampa, is still a level up, potential game changer.

It would likely take Schenn plus one of Morin, Ghost or Sanheim to get him, IMO.

I'd do that deal. Tampa would not. I think Schenn's value around the league is higher than it is on this board. But Drouin's value, despite some problems in Tampa, is still a level up, potential game changer.

It would likely take Schenn plus one of Morin, Ghost or Sanheim to get him, IMO.
- TheGreat28

And I agree with you.

But if i am moving Schenn that is probably where I am aiming in regards to skills.

What about something like B.Schenn and Hagg for Drouin? I keep seeing his name out there.

I think any B. Schenn trade, if it were to happen, would have to be at the TDL. They will give Hackstoll as much time as they can to see if they can see an upward progression
- J35Bacher

If Stevie Y was willing to make that deal, I'd drive Schenn to the airport and buy him a first class ticket to Tampa.

I'd do that deal. Tampa would not. I think Schenn's value around the league is higher than it is on this board. But Drouin's value, despite some problems in Tampa, is still a level up, potential game changer.

It would likely take Schenn plus one of Morin, Ghost or Sanheim to get him, IMO.
- TheGreat28

You are likely correct. Drouin is only 20 and is a potential game changer.

You are likely correct. Drouin is only 20 and is a potential game changer.
- BiggE

So TB asks for Morin and Schenn. Do you still drive Schenn airport?

So would Howard be a HOF candidate? He put up insane numbers over a 4 year stretch
- J35Bacher

If you look at advanced metrics, Utley's five year stretch from 2005-2009 was the greatest ever by a 2nd baseman.

Even after those years, Utley was still a good player. Elite hitter, elite base runner, elite defender.

Howard was one dimensional. He hit homers, but was below average in every other category. Couldn't run, couldn't get on base enough and was a butcher in the field. Howard will also be compared to other 1B. Utley should be compared to 2B.

Howard highest WAR was 5.2 during his MVP season. Utley had 6 seasons higher than that. During his 5 year stretch, he had a WAR of 40! That's unheard of. He would have won an MVP if advanced metrics were used more back then.

Yes.

Five year stretch arguably the best all time by a 2B
- PhillySportsGuy

Hmm, he did have a good stretch there

I seem to remember alot of negative at #19 over the years
- vejim

Like when had had 11 points in 32 games the year after signing his six year extension.

A couple things stand out when comparing the 2:

Biggio had 668 doubles to Utley's 346 and Biggio was the better fielder, he won 4 Gold Glove awards.

Also HofF voters take longevity into consideration, and I doubt that Utley lasts another 2 years, let alone 7 more seasons.
- BiggE

I agree that Biggio has longevity and Gold gloves over Utley. I still think when looking at the kind of player Utley was, how he played the game, along with his production, he's a Hall of Fame level player. He likely won't get in for some of the reasons that you mention, but I would vote yes.

What about something like B.Schenn and Hagg for Drouin? I keep seeing his name out there.

I think any B. Schenn trade, if it were to happen, would have to be at the TDL. They will give Hackstoll as much time as they can to see if they can see an upward progression
- J35Bacher

why on earth would tampa make that trade?

I would do it as i think Drouin gives you more creativity and speed.
- J35Bacher

Also has way less heart, physical ability, and two way play. Also, personally think he seems like a total J/O.


Schenn hasnt broken out as most have hope he would, but he also isnt a dud.

Hmm, he did have a good stretch there
- MBFlyerfan

Good is underselling it imo. He was arguably the 2nd best player in baseball during that stretch behind only Pujols.