Ooooo me me!!

Hatcher?!
Forsberg?!
Lindros?!
- Just5

Hatcher's knees were shot and he physically couldn't play any more but he was already thinking of retiring at the end of the contract anyway. But, yes, he can be added to the this.

Forsberg and Lindros did not retire as Flyers but injuries certainly curtailed their careers early.

I did some digging into Brashear and Somik's 2002-03 seasons since they were used as an example of the kind of wingers a shutdown center should be able to score 44 points playing alongside instead of a measly 37.

Well 2002-03 Brashear and Somik both outscored 14-15 Read and Umberger on a per minute basis. I use ES minutes since Brashear and Somik got almost no PP time.

2002-03 Brashear: 25 points in 1,030 minutes (1.46 ESP/60)
2014-15 Read: 24 points in 1,116 minutes (1.29 ESP/60)

2002-03 Somik: 17 points in 777 minutes (1.31 ESP/60)
2014-15 Umberger: 13 points in 772 minutes (1.01 ESP/60)

There's a whole article linked here if you want to look at the effect Couturier and Read have had on each other over the last four years, and how it changed in 14-15 when Read was hobbled for much of the season with a high ankle sprain.

http://alongtheboards.com...ression-recovery-rebound/

And just in case anyone is crazy enough to blame Umberger's career worst season on playing with Couturier instead of the various injuries that plagued hm, Umberger had 10 5v5 points in 424 minutes with Couturier, but only 3 points in 340 minutes without him despite the fact his OZ Start% jumped from 43.8% with Couturier to 52.3% without him.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2014-15&sit=5v5

I did some digging into Brashear and Somik's 2002-03 seasons since they were used as an example of the kind of wingers a shutdown center should be able to score 44 points playing alongside instead of a measly 37.

Well 2002-03 Brashear and Somik both outscored 14-15 Read and Umberger on a per minute basis. I use ES minutes since Brashear and Somik got almost no PP time.

2002-03 Brashear: 25 points in 1,030 minutes (1.46 ESP/60)
2014-15 Read: 24 points in 1,116 minutes (1.29 ESP/60)

2002-03 Somik: 17 points in 777 minutes (1.31 ESP/60)
2014-15 Umberger: 13 points in 772 minutes (1.01 ESP/60)

There's a whole article linked here if you want to look at the effect Couturier and Read have had on each other over the last four years, and how it changed in 14-15 when Read was hobbled for much of the season with a high ankle sprain.

http://alongtheboards.com...ression-recovery-rebound/

And just in case anyone is crazy enough to blame Umberger's career worst season on playing with Couturier instead of the various injuries that plagued hm, Umberger had 10 5v5 points in 424 minutes with Couturier, but only 3 points in 340 minutes without him despite the fact his OZ Start% jumped from 43.8% with Couturier to 52.3% without him.

http://stats.hockeyanalys...ue&season=2014-15&sit=5v5
- Feanor

Silly you, coming here with your logic and reason.

Don't you know better by now??

http://thehockeywriters.c...es-top-100-nhl-prospects/

Silly you, coming here with your logic and reason.

Don't you know better by now??




- BiggE

Yeah (frank) logic. Who needs that nonsense anyways.

I did some digging into Brashear and Somik's 2002-03 seasons
- Feanor

I hate August.

I hate August.
- hereticpride

http://thehockeywriters.com/hockeys-next-ones-top-100-nhl-prospects/
- jak521

6 out of the 100. Not bad, not bad at all.

I agree with the overall point that Couturier needs to dig deeper and improve; I just don't think the intended impications of the comparison between Brashear/Somik and Read/Umberger is particularly fair because it discounts how much injuries and age (in Umberger's case) affected their games. Yes they were former 20 goal scorers, but so was Vinny Lecavalier. If I was an NHL center I'd much rather have 2002-03 Brashear or Somik on my wing instead of the broken down 14-15 editions of Umberger and Lecavalier.

Read's center for the vast majority of both 13-14 and 14-15 was Couturier. In 13-14 Read scored at 2.26 ESP/60, and that fell all the way to 1.29 last season. A drop off that huge clearly more to do what was wrong with Read than anyone else.

OK, I'm done. Sorry for being boring.

6 out of the 100. Not bad, not bad at all.
- MBFlyerfan

Fantastic. Overall, it's as deep a pool of prospect that they've had in a very long time.

http://thehockeywriters.com/hockeys-next-ones-top-100-nhl-prospects/
- jak521

Interesting with Grigorenko on there at #67

http://thehockeywriters.com/hockeys-next-ones-top-100-nhl-prospects/
- jak521

The best they've been prospect wise in forever. I just keep thinking about what might have been. Imagine the prospect list if they would have taken Domi, Morrissey, or Pullock. I think 10 years from now, it's going to be a glaring mistake taking Morin over any of those 3 players.

The best they've been prospect wise in forever. I just keep thinking about what might have been. Imagine the prospect list if they would have taken Domi, Morrissey, or Pullock. I think 10 years from now, it's going to be a glaring mistake taking Morin over any of those 3 players.
- PLindbergh31

Even if that were to be true, I'm sure there's some players that they drafted in the later rounds that will look like steals 10 years from now.

I agree with the overall point that Couturier needs to dig deeper and improve; I just don't think the intended impications of the comparison between Brashear/Somik and Read/Umberger is particularly fair because it discounts how much injuries and age (in Umberger's case) affected their games. Yes they were former 20 goal scorers, but so was Vinny Lecavalier. If I was an NHL center I'd much rather have 2002-03 Brashear or Somik on my wing instead of the broken down 14-15 editions of Umberger and Lecavalier.

Read's center for the vast majority of both 13-14 and 14-15 was Couturier. In 13-14 Read scored at 2.26 ESP/60, and that fell all the way to 1.29 last season. A drop off that huge clearly more to do what was wrong with Read than anyone else.

OK, I'm done. Sorry for being boring.
- Feanor

Not boring at all, just supports what most saw all of last season with Read.

I agree with the overall point that Couturier needs to dig deeper and improve; I just don't think the intended impications of the comparison between Brashear/Somik and Read/Umberger is particularly fair because it discounts how much injuries and age (in Umberger's case) affected their games. Yes they were former 20 goal scorers, but so was Vinny Lecavalier. If I was an NHL center I'd much rather have 2002-03 Brashear or Somik on my wing instead of the broken down 14-15 editions of Umberger and Lecavalier.

Read's center for the vast majority of both 13-14 and 14-15 was Couturier. In 13-14 Read scored at 2.26 ESP/60, and that fell all the way to 1.29 last season. A drop off that huge clearly more to do what was wrong with Read than anyone else.

OK, I'm done. Sorry for being boring.
- Feanor

I have no worries about Couturier being better. Some like to discount his age because he is going in to his 4th season, but I don't. IMO the part of his game that usually needs the work as a young player, (the defensive side) is already at above average veteran levels. His offensive game will come along with confidence and better usage. CONFIDENCE being the more important of the two.

He will never be a speedster, but he has good hands, good hockey sense, a lethal wrist shot, good size and a sound defensive game.

Wait until he is 25. Then make your judgements.

Fantastic. Overall, it's as deep a pool of prospect that they've had in a very long time.
- BiggE

Maybe ever...

http://thehockeywriters.c...it-up-giroux-and-voracek/



Discuss.

http://thehockeywriters.c...it-up-giroux-and-voracek/



Discuss.
- MBFlyerfan

I hate August.
- hereticpride

http://thehockeywriters.c...it-up-giroux-and-voracek/



Discuss.
- MBFlyerfan

I know they need more scoring on their secondary lines, but I think they need to keep Giroux and Voracek together. Would they split up Toews and Kane? Would they split up the Sedins? Would they split up Ovechkin and Backstrom? No. Players like Couturier, Simmonds, B.Schenn need to step up.

http://thehockeywriters.c...it-up-giroux-and-voracek/



Discuss.
- MBFlyerfan

I have no problem with splitting them up, especially if Hakstol is going to roll his lines equally. The problem though, is that they just don't have 2 left wings to play in the top 6, as, IMO, Read is better suited on the 3rd line. This is why I've been hoping that they would at some point move B Schenn for a legit top 6 LW.

I know they need more scoring on their secondary lines, but I think they need to keep Giroux and Voracek together. Would they split up Toews and Kane? Would they split up the Sedins? Would they split up Ovechkin and Backstrom? No. Players like Couturier, Simmonds, B.Schenn need to step up.
- Streit2ThePoint

FWIW, Toews and Kane often play on different lines.

I know they need more scoring on their secondary lines, but I think they need to keep Giroux and Voracek together. Would they split up Toews and Kane? Would they split up the Sedins? Would they split up Ovechkin and Backstrom? No. Players like Couturier, Simmonds, B.Schenn need to step up.
- Streit2ThePoint

His third line suggestion of Umberger Schenn Gagner is quite intriguing.

A defensive nightmare in the making, but also the possibility of offense.

Read Giroux Simmonds
Raffl Couturier Voracek

I have no problem with splitting them up, especially if Hakstol is going to roll his lines equally. The problem though, is that they just don't have 2 left wings to play in the top 6, as, IMO, Read is better suited on the 3rd line. This is why I've been hoping that they would at some point move B Schenn for a legit top 6 LW.
- BiggE

B Schenn is the wildcard. He looked great at RW.

I do however, get tired of the same narrative that he is better at center than wing when there is no statistical evidence to back it up. IMO he has been just as inconsistent at C or LW.

If he can somehow overcome the inconsistent play wherever he is, that will go a long way.

http://thehockeywriters.c...it-up-giroux-and-voracek/



Discuss.
- MBFlyerfan

I wouldn't mind splitting up G and Jake but those aren't the lines I'd prefer to see
I don't think Simmonds with G would work.

Jake with BSchenn as his center would be good.
Or if Jake plays RW with Couts maybe keep Read there at LW.

Maybe Gagner on the RW with G and Raffl?

Just throwing out ideas.

The other thing about that guy's lines, I want to watch Laughton play this year and not another season of Umberger.