Maybe some people should stick to discussing hockey, rather than the other posters, since we often get lectures on that subject

No -- we've talked about it before, and I was very disappointed in that I did think they could've helped this team around the margins a bit more. I still think they could've done something, and that they owed Chief a trade. That sticks in my craw a little bit

But at the same time, seeing what they extended Couturier at and their refusal to entertain any buyouts (at least this offseason), I understand that they are working with the present salaries and future salaries in mind. I can't argue that isn't wise

I am glad to see that guys who play well enough, like MDZ and Schultz and VDV, can earn extensions. That is something that I think they have done well -- you should reward people based on how they play. You don't owe the Zac Rinaldos of the world a roster spot just because you drafted them or even extended them, and I think that is healthy. I like that they aren't extending Brayden Schenn right now -- he hasn't earned an extension, IMO
- AllInForFlyers

I can't disagree that they have a plan. I'm just not all that fond of the way they're following it. Last season they didn't make a significant move to upgrade the team until Timmonen was lost.

What's painful is the present, in that there's no hope for it and the future isn't on display yet. Difficult years to be a fan of this team.

No -- we've talked about it before, and I was very disappointed in that I did think they could've helped this team around the margins a bit more. I still think they could've done something, and that they owed Chief a trade. That sticks in my craw a little bit

But at the same time, seeing what they extended Couturier at and their refusal to entertain any buyouts (at least this offseason), I understand that they are working with the present salaries and future salaries in mind. I can't argue that isn't wise

I am glad to see that guys who play well enough, like MDZ and Schultz and VDV, can earn extensions. That is something that I think they have done well -- you should reward people based on how they play. You don't owe the Zac Rinaldos of the world a roster spot just because you drafted them or even extended them, and I think that is healthy. I like that they aren't extending Brayden Schenn right now -- he hasn't earned an extension, IMO
- AllInForFlyers

I think that they saw what they had, and rather than trade away the future to make the present slightly better. If that was unfair to Berube, well, unfortunately, life is unfair. There's not a lot of people who feel Berube deserves all the blame, but he does deserve some of it.

I don't buy that he was sent up to fail, but he was auditioning to see how well he could do in developing and molding the young talent, and almost all of them took a step back under him. Making the playoff or not was not a fair test of Berube or any coach with last season's roster.

I can't disagree that they have a plan. I'm just not all that fond of the way they're following it. Last season they didn't make a significant move to upgrade the team until Timmonen was lost.

What's painful is the present, in that there's no hope for it and the future isn't on display yet. Difficult years to be a fan of this team.
- mayorofangrytown

I'm personally excited about the upcoming season. Looking forward to Voracek continuing to grow into a star player, and making up one of the best forward tandem's in hockey with Giroux. Looking forward to the possible growth of players such as Couturier and Schenn. Watching Steve Mason continuing an ascension into one of the top goaltenders in the league. Also looking forward to see how good of a player Medvedev is. I don't personally see the present as painful. I certainly didn't like how the team underachieved last season, but I think that can be turned around this season, and team can be a solid and competitive team this upcoming season.

I can't disagree that they have a plan. I'm just not all that fond of the way they're following it. Last season they didn't make a significant move to upgrade the team until Timmonen was lost.

What's painful is the present, in that there's no hope for it and the future isn't on display yet. Difficult years to be a fan of this team.
- mayorofangrytown

It's a tough couple of years, for sure. I think that with a couple of breaks, they can be a playoff team this year. Even if they are not, I think that they will be by 2016-17. I think they will be improved this season, just not enough to guarantee a playoff spot looking at the teams the way they stand now.

But there's stuff to enjoy. And who knows, if Medvedev is as advertised, and Del Zotto repeats last season, they might well be solid.

Hextall also said that he could've made more deals down the stretch last season, but he wanted to give the team a fair chance at making the playoffs. I don't think it's fair to blindly look at young players who regressed, and blame it on the coach. If we look at Couturier's season, did he really regress that much? If he did, what were the reasons for it. I think the injuries and ineffectiveness to players such as Read and Umberger were a factor in that. Brayden Schenn despite his inconsistency, posted his career high in points. Michael Del Zotto and Jake Voracek certainly didn't regress, in fact, Del Zotto reestablished his career under Berube. Raffl became a 20 goal scorer playing under Berube.
One of the biggest issues last season along with the roster issues, were injuries. injuries to key players such as Timonen, Coburn, Mason, and Read were a big factor.

I can't disagree that they have a plan. I'm just not all that fond of the way they're following it. Last season they didn't make a significant move to upgrade the team until Timmonen was lost.

What's painful is the present, in that there's no hope for it and the future isn't on display yet. Difficult years to be a fan of this team.
- mayorofangrytown

Last year was challenging -- I won't even pretend it wasn't. Without Mason, Giroux, Voracek and the PP, the season would have been an abomination of the highest order

This season could be better to watch, I think. No matter the weaknesses Sam Gagner has in his game - and he is a flawed hockey player - he's still a better player than Zac Rinaldo. By definition, they are a better hockey team, even marginally. Is it an incremental upgrade, not massive? Yes.

But at least the Flyers aren't locked into playing Wheels or Rinaldo every night anymore, and there are reasons to believe that Gagner could help PP2 look like it belongs in the NHL and depending on who he plays with, might be able to nudge ES scoring in the right direction if he doesn't get caved in defensively

I have no clue how the Russian will play on defense. And while I didn't always love Grossmann's game, I acknowledge that he competed hard and was physical in the slot and in front of the net, had decent hockey sense. But if Medvedev can skate and he doesn't get caved in defensively, then that is an incremental upgrade as well -- you have to have a more mobile defense than they had last year, and that is something they have done

I have no (frank)ing clue what MacDonald or Luke Schenn are going to do. None whatsoever. But all I can hope is that Hakstol finds something there to work with -- the defense is not sexy, at all. It needs to be upgraded. But if MacDonald is just reliable in puck retrieval, outlet passing and system-based defense -- the defense shouldn't look as sluggish as it did at times

The PK was a damn joke for the first half of the season, but they figured it out toward the last part of the season, which was a bonus.

If I had to guess, they're going to finish around 88-90 points. That probably won't be good enough for the playoffs. But they could be better to watch

Last year was challenging -- I won't even pretend it wasn't. Without Mason, Giroux, Voracek and the PP, the season would have been an abomination of the highest order

This season could be better to watch, I think. No matter the weaknesses Sam Gagner has in his game - and he is a flawed hockey player - he's still a better player than Zac Rinaldo. By definition, they are a better hockey team, even marginally. Is it an incremental upgrade, not massive? Yes.

But at least the Flyers aren't locked into playing Wheels or Rinaldo every night anymore, and there are reasons to believe that Gagner could help PP2 look like it belongs in the NHL and depending on who he plays with, might be able to nudge ES scoring in the right direction if he doesn't get caved in defensively

I have no clue how the Russian will play on defense. And while I didn't always love Grossmann's game, I acknowledge that he competed hard and was physical in the slot and in front of the net, had decent hockey sense. But if Medvedev can skate and he doesn't get caved in defensively, then that is an incremental upgrade as well -- you have to have a more mobile defense than they had last year, and that is something they have done

I have no (frank)ing clue what MacDonald or Luke Schenn are going to do. None whatsoever. But all I can hope is that Hakstol finds something there to work with -- the defense is not sexy, at all. It needs to be upgraded. But if MacDonald is just reliable in puck retrieval, outlet passing and system-based defense -- the defense shouldn't look as sluggish as it did at times

The PK was a damn joke for the first half of the season, but they figured it out toward the last part of the season, which was a bonus.

If I had to guess, they're going to finish around 88-90 points. That probably won't be good enough for the playoffs. But they could be better to watch
- AllInForFlyers

Just think how much of a difference improving the PK can make for this team.

Mike Morreale ‏@mikemorrealeNHL
Lake Placid update: Zach Werenski (CBJ) scores w/ 37.7 seconds left in overtime to give USA 5-4 win vs. FIN

Mike Morreale ‏@mikemorrealeNHL
Lake Placid update: Zach Werenski (CBJ) scores w/ 37.7 seconds left in overtime to give USA 5-4 win vs. FIN
- ob18

Should of kept

It's a tough couple of years, for sure. I think that with a couple of breaks, they can be a playoff team this year. Even if they are not, I think that they will be by 2016-17. I think they will be improved this season, just not enough to guarantee a playoff spot looking at the teams the way they stand now.

But there's stuff to enjoy. And who knows, if Medvedev is as advertised, and Del Zotto repeats last season, they might well be solid.
- Jsaquella

There are plenty of things to watch, things to pay attention to. We're at the same place we were last year. They can be a bubble team, you think they have a shot to get in and I don't. Not a big deal. I just can't find 8 teams to finish behind them. I'm at least resigned to what it is this season.

I'll do what I did last year once the season started, watch the prospects with one eye while I watch the Flyers through the squinty other one.

Depends how one defines throw away. Do they expect to contend for a Stanley Cup and will they make moves based mostly to better their immediate chances at the expense of the future? No. Do they expect to comfortably make the playoffs and maybe exchange a couple pieces of the future to solidify that? Probably not.

Do they expect to be in the dogfight for a playoff spot, while keeping an eye to the future more than worrying about success in the short term? Yes.

Not a throw away year, but not a season where they expect to contend or waltz into the playoffs as a one or two seed, either. We likely will not see them flip a 2nd & 3rd for 2nd or 3rd pair defensemen, or flip a top pick for a veteran scoring winger, unless they are young and signed to a manageable cap hit, and expected to be a part of solution in 3 or 4 years as well as during the 2015-16 season.

In the past, a Flyers team not making every effort within reason to win the Cup in a given year could have been said to be going through a throw away year. Now the mindset is be competitive in the present, while building to the future. It's a developmental year more than anything.
- Jsaquella

Ya just had to go and bring up MacDonald didn't you?

Mike Morreale ‏@mikemorrealeNHL
Lake Placid update: Zach Werenski (CBJ) scores w/ 37.7 seconds left in overtime to give USA 5-4 win vs. FIN
- ob18

Just avoided the tie.

There are plenty of things to watch, things to pay attention to. We're at the same place we were last year. They can be a bubble team, you think they have a shot to get in and I don't. Not a big deal. I just can't find 8 teams to finish behind them. I'm at least resigned to what it is this season.

I'll do what I did last year once the season started, watch the prospects with one eye while I watch the Flyers through the squinty other one.
- mayorofangrytown

Last off season and leading up to the season, how many thought that Columbus was going to be one of the top teams in the East? Point is, lot's of things can happen in a season, and things rarely go as predicted. Some teams aren't as good, and some teams are better than were thought to be.

There are plenty of things to watch, things to pay attention to. We're at the same place we were last year. They can be a bubble team, you think they have a shot to get in and I don't. Not a big deal. I just can't find 8 teams to finish behind them. I'm at least resigned to what it is this season.

I'll do what I did last year once the season started, watch the prospects with one eye while I watch the Flyers through the squinty other one.
- mayorofangrytown

Yeah, me, too...I do expect them to be better this year than last. I'm not sure it's enough for playoffs, but as long as there is progress.

Mike Morreale ‏@mikemorrealeNHL
Lake Placid update: Zach Werenski (CBJ) scores w/ 37.7 seconds left in overtime to give USA 5-4 win vs. FIN
- ob18

I liked Provorov more than Werenski, but he looks like a great prospect too. Did I read correctly that there's a chance he doesn't return to Michigan this season and ends up in London?

I think that they saw what they had, and rather than trade away the future to make the present slightly better. If that was unfair to Berube, well, unfortunately, life is unfair. There's not a lot of people who feel Berube deserves all the blame, but he does deserve some of it.

I don't buy that he was sent up to fail, but he was auditioning to see how well he could do in developing and molding the young talent, and almost all of them took a step back under him. Making the playoff or not was not a fair test of Berube or any coach with last season's roster.
- Jsaquella

It was a tough deal, is all -- I understand everything you wrote, and agree with the premise

Just think that last year was harsh for Berube. Not saying that he was Scotty Bowman, but that roster was flawed -- more flawed than I thought

Ya just had to go and bring up MacDonald didn't you?
- five4fighting10

Could be Kubina....

But seriously, Hextall could have made deadline moves, but there was no cure to the team's ills. He could have marginally improved a mediocre team, and maybe got a first round loss out of it. Then Provorov would be on another team, or Hextall may have had to spend more draft assets to get him, and another team would have Konecny.

It's not saying the team should tank, it should recognize when it's time to make a move for now, or time to wait and make a move fr the future.

It was a tough deal, is all -- I understand everything you wrote, and agree with the premise

Just think that last year was harsh for Berube. Not saying that he was Scotty Bowman, but that roster was flawed -- more flawed than I thought
- AllInForFlyers

There were flaws in the roster, and there were some key injuries.

In my opinion, the moves that Hextall talked about that he could've made around the deadline and didn't make, would've depleted the team more, to add more future assets, and were not moves that would've been to bolster the team for a playoff push. So if those moves were made, it very well could've resulted in a higher draft pick, and more picks.

It was a tough deal, is all -- I understand everything you wrote, and agree with the premise

Just think that last year was harsh for Berube. Not saying that he was Scotty Bowman, but that roster was flawed -- more flawed than I thought
- AllInForFlyers

It was flawed. No question. Berube or not, I didn't think it was a playoff team from July 1st onward. I don't feel Berube did an especially good job with what he was given, and it's obvious that Hextall shares that assessment, otherwise, Dave Hakstol would be visiting a high school kid in Sioux Falls to recruit him for UND rather than flying 4,000 miles to have spaghetti with Jake Voracek in the Czech Republic

Just think how much of a difference improving the PK can make for this team.
- MJL

Absolutely -- should never have been that bad, and it absolutely dost them too many points

Could be Kubina....

But seriously, Hextall could have made deadline moves, but there was no cure to the team's ills. He could have marginally improved a mediocre team, and maybe got a first round loss out of it. Then Provorov would be on another team, or Hextall may have had to spend more draft assets to get him, and another team would have Konecny.

It's not saying the team should tank, it should recognize when it's time to make a move for now, or time to wait and make a move fr the future.
- Jsaquella

Precisely and Hextall absolutely made the right decision.

Absolutely -- should never have been that bad, and it absolutely dost them too many points
- AllInForFlyers

I could see improving the PK to where it should be, adding 10 points to their season total.

I liked Provorov more than Werenski, but he looks like a great prospect too. Did I read correctly that there's a chance he doesn't return to Michigan this season and ends up in London?
- five4fighting10

I was more towards Provorov but wouldn't have been upset had it been Werenski