aren;t you the guy who said we haven't been able to score under Julien? you're not a genius bro.
- Fountain-San

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.

I would take Josi over Hamilton.
- One_Eyed_Sweede

Can't really disagree given that Josi is a bargain at $4M per. Still doesn't change the fact that the Flames contract (and the Bruins "similar" offer) point to each team feeling he will grow into a franchise d-man. Is there risk involved that he doesn't, absolutely. But there is more risk that the picks you guys acquired never play in the NHL as well. Which brings back full circle to my original argument, that IMO you guys could and quite frankly should have gotten more for Hamilton to help mitigate the risk. Basically more picks=less risk b/c there are more chances for a pick to amount to a player of Hamilton's caliber.

So that means Hamilton is the perfect player at 22? No weaknesses, all strengths?
- One_Eyed_Sweede

dude the only thing that's better is his offensive stats. AT THE SAME AGE.

Grade their PBP guy
- Nucker101

Edwards? Loser. The PBP guy should be Dave Goucher who calls the games for the radio.

So that means Hamilton is the perfect player at 22? No weaknesses, all strengths?
- One_Eyed_Sweede

No. Who said that?

Great point.
- Michael_Stuart

if all you're going by is offensive stats, sure.

Grade their PBP guy
- Nucker101

F-

Grade their PBP guy
- Nucker101

F- bud

Can't really disagree given that Josi is a bargain at $4M per. Still doesn't change the fact that the Flames contract (and the Bruins "similar" offer) point to each team feeling he will grow into a franchise d-man. Is there risk involved that he doesn't, absolutely. But there is more risk that the picks you guys acquired never play in the NHL as well. Which brings back full circle to my original argument, that IMO you guys could and quite frankly should have gotten more for Hamilton to help mitigate the risk. Basically more picks=less risk b/c there are more chances for a pick to amount to a player of Hamilton's caliber.
- uf1910

So what was the return he should have got then? I have't heard that come out of anyone making this argument.

Also, I personally was hoping Werenski was going to fall to 13 but it didn't happen. Zboril was the best guy left at that position.

So that means Hamilton is the perfect player at 22? No weaknesses, all strengths?
- One_Eyed_Sweede

No, quite the opposite actually. At 22 few if any players are a finished product. But at 22 there is plenty of time to continue to grow and mature. Hamilton isn't being paid based on his past, at 22 years old he is being paid based on his potential in the future. Couple that future with the product today and you have a d-man who got a bigger deal than many if not all comparable d-man in his age group.

So what was the return he should have got then? I have't heard that come out of anyone making this argument.

Also, I personally was hoping Werenski was going to fall to 13 but it didn't happen. Zboril was the best guy left at that position.
- One_Eyed_Sweede

and there is zero chance these kids don't contribute. just not right away.

No. Who said that?
- Michael_Stuart

Micheal, you keep focusing on the advanced stats in your argument. It's only one side of the coin. Hamilton is deficient defensively and you ignore that fact in all your responses.

I just don't agree with paying him that amount of money and term for leaving a lot to be desired defensively while being bandied about as a 1-2 defenseman. He has yet to prove it.

So what was the return he should have got then? I have't heard that come out of anyone making this argument.

Also, I personally was hoping Werenski was going to fall to 13 but it didn't happen. Zboril was the best guy left at that position.
- One_Eyed_Sweede

What my argument has been from the beginning is had Hamilton been offered around the league, there would have been a bidding war of sorts. The supposed "lack" of a market for him doesn't jive with the fact he was paid like one of the best young d-man in the game. Those players rarely if ever come available yet somehow the majority of teams around the league weren't interested. Honestly the lack of Hamilton type players that ever get dealt means there is very little history to use as a comparison. But simply comparing the Lucic deal to the Hamilton deal screams not enough return since Lucic and his 1 year left high cap hit declining stats sure as hell doesn't warrant a better return than a young potential franchise cornerstone d-man.

What my argument has been from the beginning is had Hamilton been offered around the league, there would have been a bidding war of sorts. The supposed "lack" of a market for him doesn't jive with the fact he was paid like one of the best young d-man in the game. Those players rarely if ever come available yet somehow the majority of teams around the league weren't interested. Honestly the lack of Hamilton type players that ever get dealt means there is very little history to use as a comparison. But simply comparing the Lucic deal to the Hamilton deal screams not enough return since Lucic and his 1 year left high cap hit declining stats sure as hell doesn't warrant a better return than a young potential franchise cornerstone d-man.
- uf1910

so what should he have gotten? should we have gotten gaudreu?

and there is zero chance these kids don't contribute. just not right away.
- Fountain-San

Right! I get it's hard to understand for those who have unrealistic expectations of this team, or just want to troll. The farm system was depleted due to Chairelli's blundering. Sweeney has done a good job fixing that problem and getting some cap relief very quickly.

who is he talking about?
- Fountain-San

Victor Hedman. That's who I was comparing him too.

I don't care if Hamilton turns into a stud or not.

What I "do care about" is that we had a player that most fans, team executives and analysts in the NHL think will be a SOLID Top pairing D-man.

We gave up too early.

That's the simple point here guys. We always give up too early.

Erik Karlsson, Subban, Letang.........are they "elite" D-men in the NHL?
(Kinda think they are)

Hamilton is around as effective as them in the D-zone already and he was 22...........

What my argument has been from the beginning is had Hamilton been offered around the league, there would have been a bidding war of sorts. The supposed "lack" of a market for him doesn't jive with the fact he was paid like one of the best young d-man in the game. Those players rarely if ever come available yet somehow the majority of teams around the league weren't interested. Honestly the lack of Hamilton type players that ever get dealt means there is very little history to use as a comparison. But simply comparing the Lucic deal to the Hamilton deal screams not enough return since Lucic and his 1 year left high cap hit declining stats sure as hell doesn't warrant a better return than a young potential franchise cornerstone d-man.
- uf1910

Again. There is no way to tell he wasn't only what the media says.

At this point he appears to be vastly overpaid. There is potential it could be a bargain. That's Calgary's problem now.

Never used Lucic as a comparison. Different topic entirely.

Victor Hedman. That's who I was comparing him too.

I don't care if Hamilton turns into a stud or not.

What I "do care about" is that we had a player that most fans, team executives and analysts in the NHL think will be a SOLID Top pairing D-man.

We gave up too early.

That's the simple point here guys. We always give up too early.

Erik Karlsson, Subban, Letang.........are they "elite" D-men in the NHL?
(Kinda think they are)

Hamilton is around as effective as them in the D-zone already and he was 22...........
- JIwasinskiJr

my point genius is that i was talking about Karlsson.

and how did we give up when he wanted to (frank)ing leave? for (frank)s sake man.

Victor Hedman. That's who I was comparing him too.

I don't care if Hamilton turns into a stud or not.

What I "do care about" is that we had a player that most fans, team executives and analysts in the NHL think will be a SOLID Top pairing D-man.

We gave up too early.

That's the simple point here guys. We always give up too early.

Erik Karlsson, Subban, Letang.........are they "elite" D-men in the NHL?
(Kinda think they are)

Hamilton is around as effective as them in the D-zone already and he was 22...........
- JIwasinskiJr

You wanted to try and force him to stay? The Bruins offered him almost the same deal, at that point don't you think they would have matched? Hamilton wanted out.

They gave up on too early on Seguin, I agree. Kessel is a dog and Thornton was even worse. Good riddance to both.

EDIT: The other and little known piece of the Kessel trade, Knight, was yet another bad Chiarelli era draft.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument.
- One_Eyed_Sweede

Unbelievable with you......

Did I ever say that we "can't score because of Julien's system," .........?

No.

But is it kinda assumed that the system we play in Boston hurts the overall production of individual players?

Yes. (Hence the argument from kool-aid drinkers that Seguin needed to be traded, because he would never put up the same numbers here.)

I have given out a number of examples of players that excelled offensively once they leave Boston.........in fact I can't even think of one in which it went the other way.

Fact.......?

You wanted to try and force him to stay? The Bruins offered him almost the same deal, at that point don't you think they would have matched? Hamilton wanted out.

They gave up on too early on Seguin, I agree. Kessel is a dog and Thornton was even worse. Good riddance to both.

EDIT: The other and little known piece of the Kessel trade, Knight, was yet another bad Chiarelli era draft.
- One_Eyed_Sweede

And knight was traded last season, FYI. So with him and smith gone.......so is all of the Kessel deal.
----------

Bare with me here for a second.

1-you just pointed out the inability of the Bs to draft players,
2-RFA do not get to dictate where they play, hence the point of the draft in general,

We do not have any player to replace the Top Pairing spot that Hamilton was playing.

Logic would dictate........that if Hamilton was 22 and the youngest solid D prospect we have........who is going to replace him?

Morrow, Colin Miller, Trotman, Krug.........?

ALL OF THEM ARE OLDER THAN HAMILTON!

So if you can assume that they should get better at an older age (and D-men take the longest to develop hitting there prime at 26+....that's the reality) how can you not think that Hamilton would improve too!

Unbelievable with you......

Did I ever say that we "can't score because of Julien's system," .........?

No.

But is it kinda assumed that the system we play in Boston hurts the overall production of individual players?

Yes. (Hence the argument from kool-aid drinkers that Seguin needed to be traded, because he would never put up the same numbers here.)

I have given out a number of examples of players that excelled offensively once they leave Boston.........in fact I can't even think of one in which it went the other way.

Fact.......?
- JIwasinskiJr

Besides individual regular season stats. What have any of them accomplished? I'm sure you weren't unhappy in 2011 and again in 2013 until the end.

Kessel? Is now a Penguin. Accomplished (frank) all in Toronto.

Seguin? Dallas is getting close. This one is different. Bruins did make a mistake here.

Wheeler? I redo that trade every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Overrated.

my point genius is that i was talking about Karlsson.

and how did we give up when he wanted to (frank)ing leave? for (frank)s sake man.
- Fountain-San

You were not the only guys asking the question about who was being referenced.

And knight was traded last season, FYI. So with him and smith gone.......so is all of the Kessel deal.
----------

Bare with me here for a second.

1-you just pointed out the inability of the Bs to draft players,
2-RFA do not get to dictate where they play, hence the point of the draft in general,

We do not have any player to replace the Top Pairing spot that Hamilton was playing.

Logic would dictate........that if Hamilton was 22 and the youngest solid D prospect we have........who is going to replace him?

Morrow, Colin Miller, Trotman, Krug.........?

ALL OF THEM ARE OLDER THAN HAMILTON!

So if you can assume that they should get better at an older age (and D-men take the longest to develop hitting there prime at 26+....that's the reality) how can you not think that Hamilton would improve too!
- JIwasinskiJr

Never said the solution was yet in this organization. it's not. Going to have be via draft or trade. Free agency isn't like when Detroit was buying cups.

If you forced him to stay here for 6 years and he dogs it for 6 years I wonder what your opinions would be then. Will you hold this against Zboril, DeBrusk and Senyshyn like most of the fans hold it against Eriksson?

Besides individual regular season stats. What have any of them accomplished? I'm sure you weren't unhappy in 2011 and again in 2013 until the end.

Kessel? Is now a Penguin. Accomplished (frank) all in Toronto.

Seguin? Dallas is getting close. This one is different. Bruins did make a mistake here.

Wheeler? I redo that trade every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Overrated.
- One_Eyed_Sweede

There isn't a single point I disagree with you on in this.......

What have we done since the Hawks series to improve this team for the positive?

I would argue almost every move was the wrong one.

Trading Seguin Boychuck and Hamilton being the worst ones.........TWO top pairing D-men and a #1 center.

We are a few years from being contenders now because of those trades.

I don't see how us Bs fans are okay with being one of the most well positioned teams in the NHL to a mediocre team that doesn't realize they suck...........

It's infuriating.