Shatty has two years left I believe so his extension will be a priority after Schwartz

If Berg is moved it would mean Fabbri is ready unless we get a fourth line center back in the trade for berg than I guess Brodziak is the third line center

Ideally you move berg for pciks and or a prospect and your third line is

Jaskin Fabbri Brouwer
- sycsam

not necessarily. Caron can play third line minutes about as effectively as Berglund.

Schwartz Stastny Steen
Semin Lehtera Tarasenko
Fabbri/ Rattie Backes Brouwer
Jaskin Ott Reaves
- Gerk

The only thing that I would say is that Hitch would have a real difficult time coaching the second line you listed. Not that Lehtera is a bad two-way center, but placing all of the defensive responsibility on him would be tough.

Hitch likes "the north/ south game". You ain't getting that outta your proposed second line.

If you were going to go with a Semin deal, he would have to be paired with Steen and Stastny with Backes moving down to the third line. That means no kids. It's time that Rattie shed the prospect tag. Additionally, Semin is known to not work hard. The last thing this team needs is that kind of dynamic.

The Blues just got rid of Oshie. Why would they bring in a guy with a reputation for not working hard?

This implication couldn't be further from the truth. You may not like him as a coach/strategist but if you knew him at all, you would NOT question his desire and effort.
- stljam

look hitch is certainly a top of the line coach. he shows signs of evolving every year. he is also good because he does not micromanage and trusts his other coaches which is a sign of a great leader.

today's players often are spoiled and do not consider how good they have it.

my anger at hitch though is his inability to broaden his horizons. i mean it is a delicate balance to effect change but not so much against success you have had that you live in a world of second guessing yourself.

clearly a lot has to do with okayer personel as they go silent in the big games. but it is a combination of strategy and players. sadly the coach has to inspire his players, when what could be more inspiring than actually being able to compete for the Cup itself??


But besides this season the Blues have not looked bad in any of the play offs hitch has coached to be honest. in fact even against LA both times they were inches away from winning just about every game. against chicago really injuries, a cheap shot and goaltender no one expected to crap the bed so badly happened.

this season looked like a tank. the team looked lost which was crazy after the finish to the year when they took it to the hawks in play off like games. so the blues are close. maybe a bit better goaltending certainly helps.

where hitch fails in the olay offs is his teams play like one trick ponies. other teams are said to find another gear, and i think it has more to do with better video scouting than the blues employ. instead of changing some strategies they continue to play the game into the other teams' hands. the crappy thing about facing minnesota was their penalty kiloing was excellent and the blues relied too much on it. minnesota was a much quicker team and that hurt the blues as instead of grinding down minnesota in their zone they ground themslves down and minnesota would fly on the attack. the blues looked imbalanced.

one reason is jaskin is a really good player but he needs a quicker step or you need to move agining veteran forwards who are slow.

ott might not be the greatest in the regular season but his hands improve vastly in the play offs as if it were magic. so this hate for ott i really do not get. yes he crosses the line a bit. but shoot look at the liberties other teams have taken with blues players over the years.

minnesota shut down schwartz. and he was an engine for the team able to recover pucks and keep dfenders honest.

oshie kept teying to make extra moves that cost big goals in many games. i still think his value is a bit higer than the return and such but he was becoming a liability with turnovers in bad parts of the ice.

i still think i would move backes unless he extends on the cheap for two seasons. get something while you can and perhaps a leadership chang is necessary.

jaybo was not as great as he can be but he was still better than most defenders. never have i seen him trip over his skates so often. that is a timing thing where his legs were not behaving notmally so most likely having to do with the injury.

i think the blues would benefit from a fast north south winger with size like a stafford. mostly i would want to see balance. the problem with skilled players is they require ice time to be effctive or they do not get a good feeling for the game. some players are good with less ice time and can remain effective but not ever be great. you need soldiers to fill some of those spots. i would prefer a big and fast third line capable of drilling the other team and be defensively responsible with occasional goals and getting offensive zone face offs for the second and first lines. so essentially two fourth lines but the third containing more skill but the kind that does not finish as well as the top two lines.

match ups are a weakness of hitch's. he gets out played in that game too often and he also often values his fourth line too high in certain match ups. until reaves is better skating up and down the ice the defensive side of his play hurts.

gunnar ended up being a bust. benoit could be an upgrade here. i throw away any performance by players on the sabres last year because it was clear they were told to tank or deployed in mismatched ways to insure failure. this is proven to me by better performances by stafford and meyers after leaving buffalo.

look hitch is certainly a top of the line coach. he shows signs of evolving every year. he is also good because he does not micromanage and trusts his other coaches which is a sign of a great leader.

today's players often are spoiled and do not consider how good they have it.

my anger at hitch though is his inability to broaden his horizons. i mean it is a delicate balance to effect change but not so much against success you have had that you live in a world of second guessing yourself.

clearly a lot has to do with okayer personel as they go silent in the big games. but it is a combination of strategy and players. sadly the coach has to inspire his players, when what could be more inspiring than actually being able to compete for the Cup itself??


But besides this season the Blues have not looked bad in any of the play offs hitch has coached to be honest. in fact even against LA both times they were inches away from winning just about every game. against chicago really injuries, a cheap shot and goaltender no one expected to crap the bed so badly happened.

this season looked like a tank. the team looked lost which was crazy after the finish to the year when they took it to the hawks in play off like games. so the blues are close. maybe a bit better goaltending certainly helps.

where hitch fails in the olay offs is his teams play like one trick ponies. other teams are said to find another gear, and i think it has more to do with better video scouting than the blues employ. instead of changing some strategies they continue to play the game into the other teams' hands. the crappy thing about facing minnesota was their penalty kiloing was excellent and the blues relied too much on it. minnesota was a much quicker team and that hurt the blues as instead of grinding down minnesota in their zone they ground themslves down and minnesota would fly on the attack. the blues looked imbalanced.

one reason is jaskin is a really good player but he needs a quicker step or you need to move agining veteran forwards who are slow.

ott might not be the greatest in the regular season but his hands improve vastly in the play offs as if it were magic. so this hate for ott i really do not get. yes he crosses the line a bit. but shoot look at the liberties other teams have taken with blues players over the years.

minnesota shut down schwartz. and he was an engine for the team able to recover pucks and keep dfenders honest.

oshie kept teying to make extra moves that cost big goals in many games. i still think his value is a bit higer than the return and such but he was becoming a liability with turnovers in bad parts of the ice.

i still think i would move backes unless he extends on the cheap for two seasons. get something while you can and perhaps a leadership chang is necessary.

jaybo was not as great as he can be but he was still better than most defenders. never have i seen him trip over his skates so often. that is a timing thing where his legs were not behaving notmally so most likely having to do with the injury.

i think the blues would benefit from a fast north south winger with size like a stafford. mostly i would want to see balance. the problem with skilled players is they require ice time to be effctive or they do not get a good feeling for the game. some players are good with less ice time and can remain effective but not ever be great. you need soldiers to fill some of those spots. i would prefer a big and fast third line capable of drilling the other team and be defensively responsible with occasional goals and getting offensive zone face offs for the second and first lines. so essentially two fourth lines but the third containing more skill but the kind that does not finish as well as the top two lines.

match ups are a weakness of hitch's. he gets out played in that game too often and he also often values his fourth line too high in certain match ups. until reaves is better skating up and down the ice the defensive side of his play hurts.

gunnar ended up being a bust. benoit could be an upgrade here. i throw away any performance by players on the sabres last year because it was clear they were told to tank or deployed in mismatched ways to insure failure. this is proven to me by better performances by stafford and meyers after leaving buffalo.
- BluemanGuruu

the blues just need to bear down and find it in themselves to be champions. they need champion players. players with heart. the blues are close and far away at the same time. lindbohm and bortuzzo playing more make this team better. no more jackman crying about sitting a game out and the preference to pkay veteran players.

torre was pushed out because torre was an ineffective coach with younger players. nhe excelled with veterans and the top pay roll among teams by a countey mile. that comparison is unfair because mlb rules at the time plus a stocked farm system allowed the yankees to purchase championships. rules have since changed and a depleted farm system to trade for players becoming too expensive for lower market teams has not been there and why the yankees have sucked recently.

the blues have made errors in the constant movement of first rounders over a prolonged time period during the cap era. it is only sustainable when you can move players and refill your prospect cupboard with legitimate prospects as the hawks have been able to do while keeping an effective young core together.

quenville had many more lessons to learn post his blues era teams before he found success. also he had tremendous video scouting coaches in chicago which is very helpful. he tanked as well in colorado so that narrative is horse crap. he had teams here and nearly a decade to be successful and his coaching crapped the bed. had he not learned from those failures and happened to land a gig on a team primed to win he might not ever have tasted the beer from the Cup.

very different to have a successful coach who has not yet won and is hungry to learn and younger.

Excellent job explaining your position/ opinion
- Gerk

NO need to justify my reasoning when you put Jaskin on the fourth line

Paajarvi just signed a 700k one way NHL contract... I guess he is a good depth guy. He had a pretty good showing in Chicago last year.

quenville had many more lessons to learn post his blues era teams before he found success. also he had tremendous video scouting coaches in chicago which is very helpful. he tanked as well in colorado so that narrative is horse crap. he had teams here and nearly a decade to be successful and his coaching crapped the bed. had he not learned from those failures and happened to land a gig on a team primed to win he might not ever have tasted the beer from the Cup.

- BluemanGuruu

This. Quenneville had a nice roster for most of his tenure in StL. The only spot that might have been iffy was between the pipes. Ain't that just the way? In Colorado, it was Theodore, Aebischer, & Budaj for his three year stint.

Kinda stumbled across some goal tending in Chicago, eh?

None of us knows him personally. Or professionally for that matter.

Here's what I do know:

If he were still passionate about coaching he wouldn't be signing year to year deals.

If the Blues were sold on him as a coach, they wouldn't be goofing around with year to year deals.

Someone whom I regard as one of the smartest individuals of his occupation, Whitey Herzog, always said he would never manage in the walk-year of his contract because he couldn't demand the authority or gain the respect of the players if he was on a short-term deal.

I agree with him.
- bcallaway

The bold part may or may not be the case but doesn't have to do with Hitch being lazy or not trying. Also, your assumption in the first part may or may not be accurate for the people here.

Phil Jackson was on year to year deals though it's a bit different for certain.

I'm not saying I agree with the year to year but I can at least understand part of it.

Jam will answer this

What say you Jam
- sycsam

Sorry sy, travelling and no time to look into it today....hopefully corey or others can do the leg work or have already.

This. Quenneville had a nice roster for most of his tenure in StL. The only spot that might have been iffy was between the pipes. Ain't that just the way? In Colorado, it was Theodore, Aebischer, & Budaj for his three year stint.

Kinda stumbled across some goal tending in Chicago, eh?
- eggsegan

theodore won the hart.

None of us knows him personally. Or professionally for that matter.

Here's what I do know:

If he were still passionate about coaching he wouldn't be signing year to year deals.

If the Blues were sold on him as a coach, they wouldn't be goofing around with year to year deals.

Someone whom I regard as one of the smartest individuals of his occupation, Whitey Herzog, always said he would never manage in the walk-year of his contract because he couldn't demand the authority or gain the respect of the players if he was on a short-term deal.

I agree with him.
- bcallaway

I have to agree with this.

that said i get those managers who have accomplished a ton and demand respect such as phil jackson, bowman, la russa, who can sign from year to year. baseball is different as well bc much of the time a great regular season record was success unlike the nhl. hitch has won one cup and a bunch of regular season games whoppdie doo. and this crap about gold medals with canada's roster??? please!!! that is nothing special. it is only noteworthy when a canadian team chokes, which is not wining gold.

so i have to agree somewhat about hitch being fully into it.

Sorry sy, travelling and no time to look into it today....hopefully corey or others can do the leg work or have already.
- stljam

he played two games for the blues the same year he signed burning up the first year which was the 12-13 year.

this would be a new contract. elc ended.

I have to agree with this.

that said i get those managers who have accomplished a ton and demand respect such as phil jackson, bowman, la russa, who can sign from year to year. baseball is different as well bc much of the time a great regular season record was success unlike the nhl. hitch has won one cup and a bunch of regular season games whoppdie doo. and this crap about gold medals with canada's roster??? please!!! that is nothing special. it is only noteworthy when a canadian team chokes, which is not wining gold.

so i have to agree somewhat about hitch being fully into it.
- BluemanGuruu

That's true about baseball, it's much more about the regular season. Still, I don't put a whole lot of faith behind any coach as the main catalyst for success. I think if you put Hitchcock behind the bench in Chicago they would still have at least three cups. At the same time you put Q back in St louis and we very likely still end up with the same results. What your're really comparing is Toews, Keith, and Sharp versus Backes, Oshie, and Jackman. No comparison.

The team needs a new leadership core that will set the example and when needed put the team on their backs. Whatever they do with Backes, I'm hoping that Tarasenko and Pietrangelo are going to be at the least alternate captains.

Sorry sy, travelling and no time to look into it today....hopefully corey or others can do the leg work or have already.
- stljam

Four years prior to joining the Avalanche. What has Niemi done since winning the Cup?

The point is that the goaltending wasn't elite during Quenneville's stint with the Avs or the Blues during the playoffs.

That's true about baseball, it's much more about the regular season. Still, I don't put a whole lot of faith behind any coach as the main catalyst for success. I think if you put Hitchcock behind the bench in Chicago they would still have at least three cups. At the same time you put Q back in St louis and we very likely still end up with the same results. What your're really comparing is Toews, Keith, and Sharp versus Backes, Oshie, and Jackman. No comparison.

The team needs a new leadership core that will set the example and when needed put the team on their backs. Whatever they do with Backes, I'm hoping that Tarasenko and Pietrangelo are going to be at the least alternate captains.
- fattyboubatty

This is absolutely the truth. Like it or not, Toews is the best leader in hockey. The Toews led leadership group is the "motivator," not Q. People saying that Hitch has to roll into the locker room and give a Herb Brooks speech doesn't understand how NHL teams are run now. My biggest fear is that you learn good leadership from good leadership, so where is the next core going to get it from? At least Tarasenko has is father and grandfather.

This is absolutely the truth. Like it or not, Toews is the best leader in hockey. The Toews led leadership group is the "motivator," not Q. People saying that Hitch has to roll into the locker room and give a Herb Brooks speech doesn't understand how NHL teams are run now. My biggest fear is that you learn good leadership from good leadership, so where is the next core going to get it from? At least Tarasenko has is father and grandfather.
- bluenoter

The blues have enough leadership that is not in a leadership role on the team

Backes and Steen are Captains

But Pie Schwartz and Tarasenko lead by example

Schwartz had a rough playoffs but Tank and Pie were proably the two best blues in the series vs Minny

Schwartz is probably next in line for the C if Backes is traded or if he moves on in FA

This is absolutely the truth. Like it or not, Toews is the best leader in hockey. The Toews led leadership group is the "motivator," not Q. People saying that Hitch has to roll into the locker room and give a Herb Brooks speech doesn't understand how NHL teams are run now. My biggest fear is that you learn good leadership from good leadership, so where is the next core going to get it from? At least Tarasenko has is father and grandfather.
- bluenoter

players have always motivated each other, but the coaches focus their energy. They say who goes on the ice when. who goes where on the pp and pk.

so yeah coaches have absolutely no value and the good ones do not tweak, create, and lead their team to strategies. sure the players leadership is important because they and a good coach are on the same page. the coach reminds players to reign or delve into their emotions, reminds them of their success. the good leaders do this on their own and anticipate the coaches.

nothing much in sports is new. video maybe and the hawks have a great video coach. exercise coaches and nutrition.

What happens when you do not have many high end prospects coming onto your team? You go out and sign a number of seeming busts and hope some pan out, while giving your team some forward deoth protection.

The signings of Jordan Caron and Danny Kristo are examples of taking shots at panning for gold and hoping something works out. Kristo has had good numbers in college and the AHL. He has the speed and skill to play in the NHL but some say lacks consistent commitment. Would not be shocked to seem him end up on the team.

Caron is a player who is a power forward who lacks enough skating. Like Jaskin when he is done low he is dangerous. But unlike Jaskin he does not quite possess the same caliber hands, but does possess the hockey iq.


MP has the speed and height loved by GMs but has not demonstrated the killer instinct and hunger to stick at the NHL level. He does not recover the puck well and despite the hands and a decent shot has not yet since his rookie year produced much. Some of this will always be lack of ice time in St. Louis and the patience to put him on the roster with decent ice time in order to develop him.

These are three forwards that if they find their way could change the St. Louis roster.

There are still some decent looking FAs on the market. I love Jammer's idea of going out and getting a player like Irwin and moving a player like Gunnar.

So, I went to the prospect camp yesterday.

Fabbri looked great. Husso looked very good in net. Big, moved great, always stayed square to the shooter..... IMO he looks like he will give Jake a run for his money soon.

Barbashev (sp?) didn't stand out like I thought he would. Was impressed by Selman, he showed some great speed and finish in the scrimmage.

And Parayko was a monster. He looked NHL ready to me.

So, I went to the prospect camp yesterday.

Fabbri looked great. Husso looked very good in net. Big, moved great, always stayed square to the shooter..... IMO he looks like he will give Jake a run for his money soon.

Barbashev (sp?) didn't stand out like I thought he would. Was impressed by Selman, he showed some great speed and finish in the scrimmage.

And Parayko was a monster. He looked NHL ready to me.
- carcus

I predict Binnington is going to give Jake a run for his money real soon.

Parayko has a NHL ready body (6ft5, probably 220) and likely older than most. That said, he put up very respectable numbers in limited games in Chicago last year.

Is Selman going back to U of Michigan?

I predict Binnington is going to give Jake a run for his money real soon.

Parayko has a NHL ready body (6ft5, probably 220) and likely older than most. That said, he put up very respectable numbers in limited games in Chicago last year.

Is Selman going back to U of Michigan?
- stljam

Not sure about Selman. I believe he just finished his junior year, but I honestly didn't know much about him at all and was really surprised by his play.

So, I went to the prospect camp yesterday.

Fabbri looked great. Husso looked very good in net. Big, moved great, always stayed square to the shooter..... IMO he looks like he will give Jake a run for his money soon.

Barbashev (sp?) didn't stand out like I thought he would. Was impressed by Selman, he showed some great speed and finish in the scrimmage.

And Parayko was a monster. He looked NHL ready to me.
- carcus

You cannot get a good bead on players in these camps.

So, I went to the prospect camp yesterday.

Fabbri looked great. Husso looked very good in net. Big, moved great, always stayed square to the shooter..... IMO he looks like he will give Jake a run for his money.


- carcus

Awesome. I hope Armstrong trades Jake Allen away too.

You cannot get a good bead on players in these camps.
- BluemanGuruu

Yes you can. You can spot the guys who have legit NHL talent.

Yes you can. You can spot the guys who have legit NHL talent.
- carcus

probably somewhere in the middle imho in that 1) you can see guys that obviously don't belong and are lottery long shots to make, 2) it's easy to read way more into it and think guys are much further along/better than they actually are due to relative competition, and 3) you can tell guys that at least have a shot at an nhl career....

For me, it's all just more data points to look at the overall picture (kind of like advanced stats).