Clarke went to the podium and didn't even know the kids name. It's widely known that Holmgren ran that draft.
- MJL

if you say so.

With any GM, you're just hoping to get at least a 60/40 split on good vs bad.

Homer was 40/60, at best.
- Tomahawk

The Pronger gamble failed, because they failed to win the Cup. His approach in the wake of Pronger's career ending injury wasn't very good.

Holmgren was bold and did build a contending team. However, his method was not as sustainable as a team like Chicago's, because it failed to really build the system to provide cheaper replacements, and holes had to be filled by draining further assets(mostly draft picks) or using the high cost FA route.

Because of that, the Flyers consistently had to tiptoe on the salary cap. Bad cap management or not, it certainly added a degree of difficulty to being able to sustain a contending team.

if you say so.
- JoeRussomanno

I don't say so, it's what the information that has been given for that time period, that says so.

I don't say so, it's what the information that has been given for that time period, that says so.
- MJL

quantify that.

The Pronger gamble failed, because they failed to win the Cup. His approach in the wake of Pronger's career ending injury wasn't very good.

Holmgren was bold and did build a contending team. However, his method was not as sustainable as a team like Chicago's, because it failed to really build the system to provide cheaper replacements, and holes had to be filled by draining further assets(mostly draft picks) or using the high cost FA route.

Because of that, the Flyers consistently had to tiptoe on the salary cap. Bad cap management or not, it certainly added a degree of difficulty to being able to sustain a contending team.
- Jsaquella

Damn you salary cap!

he didn't add Giroux
- JoeRussomanno

No, it was Clarke who added... who added... what was his name again?

The Pronger gamble didn't fail, because it absolutely elevated the team to a top contender. Pronger getting hurt is a big reason for why it didn't work out after that, but if you want to blame Holmgren for that injury, go ahead. As far as handling the injury, I don't see how it can be said that it was handled badly. He made solid trades to try and off set that injury, as best as possible. Unless you believe a direct replacement for a player like Pronger was readily available.

The Pronger gamble failed, because they failed to win the Cup. His approach in the wake of Pronger's career ending injury wasn't very good.

Holmgren was bold and did build a contending team. However, his method was not as sustainable as a team like Chicago's, because it failed to really build the system to provide cheaper replacements, and holes had to be filled by draining further assets(mostly draft picks) or using the high cost FA route.

Because of that, the Flyers consistently had to tiptoe on the salary cap. Bad cap management or not, it certainly added a degree of difficulty to being able to sustain a contending team.
- Jsaquella

we'd be in good shape despite the pronger gamble if he didn't double down on stupid with other moves, like vinny and amac. And im sprry streit was not an ideal signing either.

No, it was Clarke who added... who added... what was his name again?
- Feanor

i get my own kids names mixed up sometimes. that is a real silly point.

quantify that.
- JoeRussomanno

Refer back to numerous blogs and articles written about that time period. Clarke was all over that pick, right up until the time of remmbering his name at the podium.

we'd be in good shape despite the pronger gamble if he didn't double down on stupid with other moves, like vinny and amac. And im sprry streit was not an ideal signing either.
- JoeRussomanno

What has been the problem with the Streit signing?

Refer back to numerous blogs and articles written about that time period. Clarke was all over that pick, right up until the time of remmbering his name at the podium.
- MJL

just provide one that says holmgren drafted giroux. based on something other than clarke stuttering at the podium.

The Pronger gamble failed, because they failed to win the Cup. His approach in the wake of Pronger's career ending injury wasn't very good.

Holmgren was bold and did build a contending team. However, his method was not as sustainable as a team like Chicago's, because it failed to really build the system to provide cheaper replacements, and holes had to be filled by draining further assets(mostly draft picks) or using the high cost FA route.

Because of that, the Flyers consistently had to tiptoe on the salary cap. Bad cap management or not, it certainly added a degree of difficulty to being able to sustain a contending team.
- Jsaquella

Yup, this was the start of his downfall. Signing Vinny was the end.

What has been the problem with the Streit signing?
- MJL

the impending decline associated with players in their late 30's.

Yup, this was the start of his downfall. Signing Vinny was the end.
- BiggE

1/6 of your payroll tied up in Vinny and Amac... after the Bryz debacle... no GM's gonna survive that.

we'd be in good shape despite the pronger gamble if he didn't double down on stupid with other moves, like vinny and amac. And im sprry streit was not an ideal signing either.
- JoeRussomanno

Exactly. rather than recognizing that they were a rather weak playoff team, he doubled down and expended more assets to make them moderately better, rather than biting the bullet and trying to rebuild.

The Pronger trade left a massive hole in the system. Whether it worked or not, they ended up with 2 seasons where they didn't make a pick until round 3. Pronger was in his mid 30's. He wasn't going to play forever. When he got hurt, they traded out three more seconds, two more thirds and a fourth to add Grossmann, Kubina and MacDonald. They also spent another third to get Streit's rights before UFA.

The result was a cap strapped team that missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons and went one and out in the other. At least during his last 18 months or so, he stopped trading away picks as if they were nickels.

1/6 of your payroll tied up in Vinny and Amac... after the Bryz debacle... no GM's gonna survive that.
- Tomahawk

thing with homer was when he (frank)ed up, he (frank)ed up royaly... phew good god! ok lets say for sake of argument he added giroux. after that there's voracek and mason. not enough to get you in the playoffs, b/c your team is hamstrung with moronic signings; Bad GM, Bad, Bad dog!

Pronger was in his mid 30's. He wasn't going to play forever.
- Jsaquella

Pronger and Streit are immune from the effects of aging. /quantified

Good or bad or whatever, it was clear Holmgren's tenure had grown stale. With what Hextall's done so far, I'm comfortable saying he's a breath of fresh air.

(Umberger still sucks though)

Damn you salary cap!
- Tomahawk

It's why you can't trade away draft picks and need to do a good job of drafting and developing. Either you have guys who can step in and play on cheaper contracts or you have tradeable assets when you're team is ready to make a serious run.

So...safe to assume that most folks here are fairly giddy after the weekend activities?
- Scoob

That was a.pretty stout weekend from the GM, by any metric I use.to judge

Yes, you don't control who falls and you have no idea if they will pan out, but you still have to make the picks that make sense, and they did that

I mean, seriously. If I was a B's fan, for example, I would have found a bridge to jump from

Exactly. rather than recognizing that they were a rather weak playoff team, he doubled down and expended more assets to make them moderately better, rather than biting the bullet and trying to rebuild.

The Pronger trade left a massive hole in the system. Whether it worked or not, they ended up with 2 seasons where they didn't make a pick until round 3. Pronger was in his mid 30's. He wasn't going to play forever. When he got hurt, they traded out three more seconds, two more thirds and a fourth to add Grossmann, Kubina and MacDonald. They also spent another third to get Streit's rights before UFA.

The result was a cap strapped team that missed the playoffs 2 of the last 3 seasons and went one and out in the other. At least during his last 18 months or so, he stopped trading away picks as if they were nickels.
- Jsaquella

see for me they didnt have a definite #1 goalie either. yea they had emery but there were question marks with him and sadly they got answered that season. so they gambled heavily knowing they had a house of cards. i feel a little better gambling now because the foundation is there with mason leaving no doubt. But they don't have to gamble on anything now other than what to do with Gagner.

That was a.pretty stout weekend from the GM, by any metric I use.to judge
- AllInForFlyers

(frank) yeah... I feel really bad about pooing on that poster who suggested dumping one of our sloths and Pronger to the 'Yotes that morning... still can't believe Hexy got Maloney to go for it.

see for me they didnt have a definite #1 goalie either. yea they had emery but there were question marks with him and sadly they got answered that season. so they gambled heavily knowing they had a house of cards. i feel a little better gambling now because the foundation is there with mason leaving no doubt. But they don't have to gamble on anything now other than what to do with Gagner.
- JoeRussomanno

In the end, the lack of a reliable third pair and having to rely on Leighton/Boucher against Chicago was why they failed to win a Cup.

one last thing about homer (the debate is quite stale btw), we've been getting owned by two ither teams in our division since 2010 too. that reflects on the gm too.