I want mobile defensemen who can play defense. I want bigger guys who can skate well and don't have to rely on chipping it out the majority of the time. I want guys who are a threat to simply lug the puck up ice and force teams to respect them and not be able to aggressively forecheck and hem them into their own end for long stretches of time.
- Jsaquella

Unfortunately, Grossmann has been robbed of some his mobility and it shows. I think Schenn has the ability to make a decent first pass, but hasn't become consistent enough.

Hate to write, but one of Homer's bigger blunders was staying in the Suter sweepstakes. I firmly believe Suter had no intention of signing with the Flyers, but used Homer's aggressiveness to drive up the price for the Wild. He should have cut bait and signed Carle. It was a mistake. If he signs Carle, there was probably no need to acquire Streit.

out of all them keith and seabrook are the only exception to what im saying and even they are stillon the cusp.those other guys are secondary pieces. Toews and kane are your giroux and voracek on that team. realistically giroux, voracek and mason will be 34/35 when these prospects can reasonably be expected to carry the load.
- JoeRussomanno

Not really. Hossa, Richards and Sharp all played fairly big minutes. They all averaged over 15 minutes per game, and Hossa played close to 20 a night.

So you don't think that the prospects will be playing 1st & 2nd pair minutes for 7-8 years? If that's the case then the Flyers will likely have moved Giroux and/or Voracek for more assets. I think a more realistic timeline is 3-4 years. Guys like Fowler, Lindholm, Despres and Vatanen aren't 27. Guys like McDonagh and Staal weren't 27 & 28 when they started carrying the load, more like 23-24

Unfortunately, Grossmann has been robbed of some his mobility and it shows. I think Schenn has the ability to make a decent first pass, but hasn't become consistent enough.

Hate to write, but one of Homer's bigger blunders was staying in the Suter sweepstakes. I firmly believe Suter had no intention of signing with the Flyers, but used Homer's aggressiveness to drive up the price for the Wild. He should have cut bait and signed Carle. It was a mistake. If he signs Carle, there was probably no need to acquire Streit.
- ravishingone

Agreed. Holmgren spent a lot of assets adding depth defensemen, and failed to really replace the top pair guys he had who were getting older or lost to injury.

He failed to see that Suter was a pipe dream and that Nashville couldn't afford to lose both him and Weber in the same summer and still sell the fanbase on trying to be a competitive team. It's hard to land a guy like Suter in FA, and it's expensive to trade for one, as well.

Not really. Hossa, Richards and Sharp all played fairly big minutes. They all averaged over 15 minutes per game, and Hossa played close to 20 a night.

So you don't think that the prospects will be playing 1st & 2nd pair minutes for 7-8 years? If that's the case then the Flyers will likely have moved Giroux and/or Voracek for more assets. I think a more realistic timeline is 3-4 years. Guys like Fowler, Lindholm, Despres and Vatanen aren't 27. Guys like McDonagh and Staal weren't 27 & 28 when they started carrying the load, more like 23-24
- Jsaquella

if they can be ready in 3-4 years that's fantastic. but i hate to put that kind of pressure and expectations on them. im thinking theyre 18/19 yea 6-7 years seems a realistic and fair expectation.

im all for drafting and development im not for expecting guys in their mid 30's to be your go to guys.
- JoeRussomanno

I don't have an issue with anyone who thinks that Giroux and Voracek can still carry a team in their 30's. I think that is possible. My problem is the gap and wait time that this team will likely have to endure, wasting prime years of some players on the team. It's the biggest issue facing this team. The drafted prospects becoming top defenseman, is not a guarantee. Although I think they're going to be really good players. A number of years can go by before we even know if they will be the top defenseman we need them to be. If they don't work out then what? How more years will be needed to draft and develop? A team needs to use all avenues of player development to build a team, just as Chicago and LA has done.

if they can be ready in 3-4 years that's fantastic. but i hate to put that kind of pressure and expectations on them. im thinking theyre 18/19 yea 6-7 years seems a realistic and fair expectation.
- JoeRussomanno

Disagree. If they haven't made an impact by 26-27, then they're likely making that impact on another team.

Also, nobody is saying to ignore adding pieces via trade or free agency. They have to avoid draining the system like they did during the period from 2009-2012.

Agreed. Holmgren spent a lot of assets adding depth defensemen, and failed to really replace the top pair guys he had who were getting older or lost to injury.

He failed to see that Suter was a pipe dream and that Nashville couldn't afford to lose both him and Weber in the same summer and still sell the fanbase on trying to be a competitive team. It's hard to land a guy like Suter in FA, and it's expensive to trade for one, as well.
- Jsaquella

I don't want to crap on Mark Streit because he has done a good job as a Flyer. However, Carle would have cost a little more money, a little better in the defensive zone, younger, and not cost a 4th rounder to acquire.

I think a team can acquire pieces through free agency. Hextall has to do a better job then Clarke and Homer in finding organizational depth past the first round of the draft. Your almost forced in today's NHL to build the foundation of your blueline through the draft. Trading for top pairing dmen is becoming increasingly more difficult and expensive with assets to acquire.

Unfortunately, Grossmann has been robbed of some his mobility and it shows. I think Schenn has the ability to make a decent first pass, but hasn't become consistent enough.

Hate to write, but one of Homer's bigger blunders was staying in the Suter sweepstakes. I firmly believe Suter had no intention of signing with the Flyers, but used Homer's aggressiveness to drive up the price for the Wild. He should have cut bait and signed Carle. It was a mistake. If he signs Carle, there was probably no need to acquire Streit.
- ravishingone

Streit effectively replaced Carle. So I don't see an issue with that. I think he was absolutely correct in trying to acquire that top pairing defenseman such as Suter or Weber. If he had done so, this team would be in a better spot right now. Holmgren's biggest and only really serious mistake hampering this team now in my opinion, was the failure to draft and develop good defenseman. That's what is really hurting this team right now, as the ability to trade and or sign top defenseman, has pretty much dried up.

If Snaheim is going to start carrying the load when he is 23-24, and I emphasize start. That's 4-5 years from now. That's a long time in Hockey. Hope the fans are patient.

if they can be ready in 3-4 years that's fantastic. but i hate to put that kind of pressure and expectations on them. im thinking theyre 18/19 yea 6-7 years seems a realistic and fair expectation.
- JoeRussomanno

Agreed.

Streit effectively replaced Carle. So I don't see an issue with that. I think he was absolutely correct in trying to acquire that top pairing defenseman such as Suter or Weber. If he had done so, this team would be in a better spot right now. Holmgren's biggest and only really serious mistake hampering this team now in my opinion, was the failure to draft and develop good defenseman. That's what is really hurting this team right now, as the ability to trade and or sign top defenseman, has pretty much dried up.
- MJL

It's drafting & developing period......they lack forward & goalie depth in the system & to be honest could even still use more defense to develop.

I like the approach to go this way, yes it does suck that G & Jake may miss out when this talent is ready or able to contribute meaningful minutes at the NHL but that's the cost of not doing this sooner.

I don't want to crap on Mark Streit because he has done a good job as a Flyer. However, Carle would have cost a little more money, a little better in the defensive zone, younger, and not cost a 4th rounder to acquire.


- ravishingone

The problem is that Carle's offensive game has seemed to have fallen off a cliff. He was really good offensively when he was here.

I don't want to crap on Mark Streit because he has done a good job as a Flyer. However, Carle would have cost a little more money, a little better in the defensive zone, younger, and not cost a 4th rounder to acquire.

I think a team can acquire pieces through free agency. Hextall has to do a better job then Clarke and Homer in finding organizational depth past the first round of the draft. Your almost forced in today's NHL to build the foundation of your blueline through the draft. Trading for top pairing dmen is becoming increasingly more difficult and expensive with assets to acquire.
- ravishingone

They have to do more what Hextall did in finding solid, cheaper free agents like Schultz and Del Zotto and avoid having to rely on free agency as a primary way to add players. The practice to trading away draft picks for negotiating rights is hopefully a thing of the past.

Maybe, in a year or two, when some of the kids are playing in the NHL and they might be a piece or two away, fine maybe then splurge on a big free agent, like Anaheim did with Kesler, or make a deal for a guy, like LA did for Gaborik.

Don't follow up the expiration of the Grossmann deal to spend a premium contract on another limited guy. If MDZ wants too much cash, flip his rights and add a pick or two. They have to avoid paying a premium for bottom six forwards or 4-5 defensemen

Streit effectively replaced Carle. So I don't see an issue with that. I think he was absolutely correct in trying to acquire that top pairing defenseman such as Suter or Weber. If he had done so, this team would be in a better spot right now. Holmgren's biggest and only really serious mistake hampering this team now in my opinion, was the failure to draft and develop good defenseman. That's what is really hurting this team right now, as the ability to trade and or sign top defenseman, has pretty much dried up.
- MJL

I'm a Streit fan, but I'm not sure he has effectively replaced Carle at both ends of the ice. Granted, Streit is a better guy on the point for the PP. However, Carle was used on the PK and I think we can both agree there is a difference between the two in the defensive zone. Ultimately, you want top pairing dman, an organization has better odds of drafting them, then trying to acquire one in the salary cap era.

It's drafting & developing period......they lack forward & goalie depth in the system & to be honest could even still use more defense to develop.

I like the approach to go this way, yes it does suck that G & Jake may miss out when this talent is ready or able to contribute meaningful minutes at the NHL but that's the cost of not doing this sooner.
- ob18

I don't see it as period. They have a lot of youth already up on the big club. Carter and Richards, who they drafted and developed, were used to add 4 players to the team. I'm just pointing out that there is a cost, and a substantial waiting period for being patient and drafting and developing.

I'm a Streit fan, but I'm not sure he has effectively replaced Carle at both ends of the ice. Granted, Streit is a better guy on the point for the PP. However, Carle was used on the PK and I think we can both agree there is a difference between the two in the defensive zone. Ultimately, you want top pairing dman, an organization has better odds of drafting them, then trying to acquire one in the salary cap era.
- ravishingone

I think Carle was the better defensive player for sure, but Streit has a much better shot, is much better on the PP, and is better offensively, especially now.
The odds of acquiring a top pairing defenseman in today's game is slim to none.

They have to do more what Hextall did in finding solid, cheaper free agents like Schultz and Del Zotto and avoid having to rely on free agency as a primary way to add players. The practice to trading away draft picks for negotiating rights is hopefully a thing of the past.

Maybe, in a year or two, when some of the kids are playing in the NHL and they might be a piece or two away, fine maybe then splurge on a big free agent, like Anaheim did with Kesler, or make a deal for a guy, like LA did for Gaborik.

Don't follow up the expiration of the Grossmann deal to spend a premium contract on another limited guy. If MDZ wants too much cash, flip his rights and add a pick or two. They have to avoid paying a premium for bottom six forwards or 4-5 defensemen
- Jsaquella

I have to admit I thought MDZ was a no brainer to return next year. With the signing of Medvedev, I'm not as confident. I really have no clue how the blueline is going to look opening night, it is the main story of the offseason for the Flyers.

I don't see it as period. They have a lot of youth already up on the big club. Carter and Richards, who they drafted and developed, were used to add 4 players to the team. I'm just pointing out that there is a cost, and a substantial waiting period for being patient and drafting and developing.
- MJL

There is a cost to everything.......you go out & make trades you can miss the chance to keep a system full of guys ready to go when you have to let players go because the cap doesn't allow you to keep everybody you want.

It's a path I prefer to go down for the Flyers.

It's drafting & developing period......they lack forward & goalie depth in the system & to be honest could even still use more defense to develop.

I like the approach to go this way, yes it does suck that G & Jake may miss out when this talent is ready or able to contribute meaningful minutes at the NHL but that's the cost of not doing this sooner.
- ob18

I don't think it's one way period, but they have to take a realistic look at the timetable before they go out and make the big move.

If Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, Gostisbehere can start carrying the load as early as the Ducks D group, then might be a great idea to try and land a guy who can be the leader of that group and play a load of minutes, even if it is expensive.

But don't, as a fringe PO team, run out and spend draft picks on dime a dozen players who might be a slight upgrade, but who really don't push the team to the next level.

I don't think it's one way period, but they have to take a realistic look at the timetable before they go out and make the big move.

If Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, Gostisbehere can start carrying the load as early as the Ducks D group, then might be a great idea to try and land a guy who can be the leader of that group and play a load of minutes, even if it is expensive.

But don't, as a fringe PO team, run out and spend draft picks on dime a dozen players who might be a slight upgrade, but who really don't push the team to the next level.
- Jsaquella

You could explore that as an option but as we've seen teams just won't give those players away & that cost can clean out their prospects now or ones they could land in near future drafts.

I wouldn't say no to it but I'd only be willing to offer up a certain amount before it's overkill.

There is a cost to everything.......you go out & make trades you can miss the chance to keep a system full of guys ready to go when you have to let players go because the cap doesn't allow you to keep everybody you want.

It's a path I prefer to go down for the Flyers.
- ob18

Like I've said many times. In my opinion there is no wrong way to build a team, as long as you get there. You can try and draft and develop for years and never get there. Happens with a lot of teams. There is no bad method of acquiring players. Only bad moves or good moves, regardless of the method used. You need a little bit of everything. If a top defenseman at the right age became available, I'd include some of the Flyers top prospects in a heartbeat in the deal.

I have to admit I thought MDZ was a no brainer to return next year. With the signing of Medvedev, I'm not as confident. I really have no clue how the blueline is going to look opening night, it is the main story of the offseason for the Flyers.
- ravishingone

Given the comments of Hextall and Hakstol, about being a team that can skate well and move the puck well, I think that guys like Grossmann and Schenn will be shopped. Guys like MDZ and even Streit have a skill set that's more in demand, and could have higher value.

I think that the focus will be more on guys who are less one dimensional. Medvedev is supposedly a good skating, two way guy. MacDonald, at his best, is not a one dimensional guy. People see Morin as a future shut down guy, but he's very mobile for a 6'7" guy. Sanheim has to work on his game away from the puck, but he's also got the tools for a diverse game.

I have to admit I thought MDZ was a no brainer to return next year. With the signing of Medvedev, I'm not as confident. I really have no clue how the blueline is going to look opening night, it is the main story of the offseason for the Flyers.
- ravishingone

I fully expect Del Zotto to be a Flyer next season. It's just going to be a long process.

You could explore that as an option but as we've seen teams just won't give those players away & that cost can clean out their prospects now or ones they could land in near future drafts.

I wouldn't say no to it but I'd only be willing to offer up a certain amount before it's overkill.
- ob18

Exactly, you have to constantly weigh the cost/benefit aspect. When Pronger went down, they needed to add a veteran D. So they got Grossmann. Fine. But then they went out and spent further assets on Kubina. What did he enhance? Nothing. They paid a premium for a guy that did nothing for them and they fell short in the playoffs.

Exactly, you have to constantly weigh the cost/benefit aspect. When Pronger went down, they needed to add a veteran D. So they got Grossmann. Fine. But then they went out and spent further assets on Kubina. What did he enhance? Nothing. They paid a premium for a guy that did nothing for them and they fell short in the playoffs.
- Jsaquella

Personally I'm at the point that I'd prefer the draft & develop route with short to contracts to help for the time being.

Also not against other ways to improve it but as always for the right price.