Has he been medically cleared to play?
- Scoob

No, but I'm not sure if Rafalski would have been or not. Does being in agonizing pain whenever you take a step make you any more "medically unable to play" that constant headaches/nausea?

A player with those kind of medical issues, would not have a problem obtaining LTIR status. He most likely was being shot up with pain killers to play.
- MJL

So he gave up $6M for what? To be a nice guy?

No, but I'm not sure if Rafalski would have been or not. Does being in agonizing pain whenever you take a step make you any more "medically unable to play" that constant headaches/nausea?
- jmatchett383

My point in asking the question was that if he's not medically cleared then he can't even "technically" play.

So, what happens if (by some miracle) Pronger's symptoms subside and he's declared medically fit to play? They can't LTIR him, but he won't play. At that point, I guess you'd have to either let him live with a suspensions for failing to report or he'd retire and you'd be left with his hit.

So he gave up $6M for what? To be a nice guy?
- Scoob

Article: Pain Trumps Money

My two cents: if the pain was so bad that he quit, he could have gone on LTIR. But, that's just my opinion from a distance.

My point in asking the question was that if he's not medically cleared then he can't even "technically" play.
- Scoob

You did? I thought that your point was that Rafalski was able to play, despite being in horrible pain (or, as you put it, "with some effort."), which would make him an ineligible LTIR candidate. I was simply asking if you think that kind of pain ("effort") is any more or less of a condition making you unable to play that PCS is.

Flyers need to re-sign guys like Voracek, Schenn & Couturier, Lecavalier's full cap hit could be an issue at that point
- Jsaquella

Yeah well before I sign any of them long term they need show a little more. schenn and #14 more than jake. What do you want to pay jake? 7mm for 7 years? what about the other 2?

As I said they don't make the playoffs with the same group of forwards and those 2 don't show any signs of improvement they might not make much anyway and I def don't sign them to long term deals.

His cap hit isn't an issue now. If it is an issue a year form now then you go from there. IMO buying him out now isn't smart.

No doubt. Flyers took a risk on an older player who had just been bought out and gave him a very healthy contract. And so far, they are getting burned on the deal. It would have been smart to laden the deal with performance incentives, but Vinny probably doesn't take that deal.

My only point with the last comment was, in no way, shape or form should Vinny feel his performance has lived up to the term and dollar amount of said contract.

Either way, I'm not too worried what happens with him this upcoming season, so much else is going on.
- wolfhounds

Based on his comments, Lecavalier feels that he hasn't been used properly, and wasn't given a fair opportunity to perform and live up to his contract.

Yeah well before I sign any of them long term they need show a little more. schenn and #14 more than jake. What do you want to pay jake? 7mm for 7 years? what about the other 2?

As I said they don't make the playoffs with the same group of forwards and those 2 don't show any signs of improvement they might not make much anyway and I def don't sign them to long term deals.

His cap hit isn't an issue now. If it is an issue a year form now then you go from there. IMO buying him out now isn't smart.
- rinaldo

What more would you like to see from Jake? Challenge a few of Gretzky's offensive records? Lead the league in fighting majors?

So he gave up $6M for what? To be a nice guy?
- Scoob

I don't know what his thinking was.

Based on his comments, Lecavalier feels that he hasn't been used properly, and wasn't given a fair opportunity to perform and live up to his contract.
- MJL

Based on those comments, he's unwilling to face reality.

You did?
- jmatchett383

Yes. You said "technically Pronger could play" (possibly paraphrasing). So I asked if he was medically cleared to play.

Yeah well before I sign any of them long term they need show a little more. schenn and #14 more than jake. What do you want to pay jake? 7mm for 7 years? what about the other 2?

As I said they don't make the playoffs with the same group of forwards and those 2 don't show any signs of improvement they might not make much anyway and I def don't sign them to long term deals.

His cap hit isn't an issue now. If it is an issue a year form now then you go from there. IMO buying him out now isn't smart.
- rinaldo

Schenn has better'd his point totals every single season he has played in the nhl.

Article: Pain Trumps Money

My two cents: if the pain was so bad that he quit, he could have gone on LTIR. But, that's just my opinion from a distance.
- wolfhounds

That's my thinking so I'm just wondering why he didn't go LTIR. Is he just that nice a guy and wanted to do the team a solid?

Yes. You said "technically Pronger could play" (possibly paraphrasing). So I asked if he was medically cleared to play.
- Scoob

Yeah....that was asked AFTER you said that Rafalski would be able to get LTIR since he could play "with a little effort", meaning despite agonizing pain on a day-in/day-out basis. What a wuss! And way to pick out one line of my entire post to pick apart. You win the internets!

Based on his comments, Lecavalier feels that he hasn't been used properly, and wasn't given a fair opportunity to perform and live up to his contract.
- MJL

Right. And they fired the coach they used as part of the enticement to get him here.

So, what happens if (by some miracle) Pronger's symptoms subside and he's declared medically fit to play? They can't LTIR him, but he won't play. At that point, I guess you'd have to either let him live with a suspensions for failing to report or he'd retire and you'd be left with his hit.
- jmatchett383

That is a hypothetical possibility. Although with all the publicity on how concussions have been misdiagnosed and treated in the past, I doubt the league would push that.

Based on those comments, he's unwilling to face reality.
- jmatchett383

Quite possibly.

Right. And they fired the coach they used as part of the enticement to get him here.
- Scoob

And the guy actually thought he'd be good under Lavi's pressure, skating system... yeah, he's 100% delusional.

What more would you like to see from Jake? Challenge a few of Gretzky's offensive records? Lead the league in fighting majors?
- jmatchett383

schenn and #14 more than jake. That was what I said. feel free to comment on those 2 if you like.

That is a hypothetical possibility. Although with all the publicity on how concussions have been misdiagnosed and treated in the past, I doubt the league would push that.
- MJL

The league would be okay, since there's no way Pronger would ever suit up for a game based on his comments. If he's cleared, with the way things are leaked today, it would be public knowledge 4 seconds after he's given his results. But the Flyers would be in a pickle.

Yeah....that was asked AFTER you said that Rafalski would be able to get LTIR since he could play "with a little effort", meaning despite agonizing pain on a day-in/day-out basis. What a wuss! And way to pick out one line of my entire post to pick apart. You win the internets!
- jmatchett383

I didn't say he could be LTIR. I asked if he could.

Could he have? Seems he was able to get game ready with some effort which says to me that LTIR wasn't an option.

A sincere question since the article I read made it seem that since he was able to get on the ice with much treatments that maybe LTIR wasn't an option. I don't know the LTIR rules, so I asked the question.

schenn and #14 more than jake. That was what I said. feel free to comment on those 2 if you like.
- rinaldo

You said you wanted to see more from all 3 of them (and yes, Schenn/Coots more than Jake). Those 2 I can understand, to a degree. But I was just curious what more you want to see of Jake.

And the guy actually thought he'd be good under Lavi's pressure, skating system... yeah, he's 100% delusional.
- Tomahawk

I don't know what he thought but it was a mutually agreed upon contract. Maybe they told him he'd get a lot of PP time.

Biggest elephant in the room will always be A Mac and his humongous contract