Murray's three years in LA prior to being poopcanned in 2011-2012 were:

Missed playoffs
Lost in first round
Lost in first round

Sutter comes in, and they win 2 Cups in 3 years.
Conclusion: Murray laid the groundwork for success.
- PLindbergh31

For sure, I'd want no part of him as a head coach. However, I think he can be an effective assistant.

The most interesting aspect of Murray being promoted to the big club has nothing to do with Murray.

It would be if Cote becomes head coach of the Phantoms.
- flyer_nutter

Yikes

I've been stocking up on carbs for 50 yrs. It's doctor required so I'm dealing with it.
- mayorofangrytown

you will shed pounds rapidly
you will be an bumhole to everyone for the first 4 days

Am I the only one who think hextall should test the waters on what pulkinnen and baertschi would cost ? Both teams looking to get bigger and younger on d (l schenn + 2nd or 3rd rounder?)

Regards to the draft I've seen several thinking provorov could be the most pro ready defenseman. I'm a believer in best player available. Wouldn't it be him at 7 if he's there ? If he's off the board two way forward crouse could be instant third line left wing but meh projects as a 20/20 defensive oriented power forward doesn't overly appeal to me. Better off taking chance on barzal meier etc imo. I don't know if anyone knows what hextall truly thinking.
- Tfaehner

For me, flip a coin with Barzal and Provorov if both are there at 7. I lean Barzal, but to each his own.

I have no real issue with Crouse, but he's not my first choice at 7. He's a good player, who will fill a need and could well develop into a top line LW. He also might end up a 3rd liner who chips in offensively and helps the PK. The same could happen to any of these kids. It's not easy to do at age 17 or 18 to say for sure what a kid will be in 3 or 4 years.

There's been enough guys taken high in the draft that never panned out and enough that were taken in the later rounds that blossomed to show it's an inexact science. Jamie Benn was a 5th rounder. He just won the Art Ross.

I'm rooting for the Blackhawks and Rangers solely for flyers draft picks. I'd root for Chicago if those teams win.

I'm rooting for the Blackhawks and Rangers solely for flyers draft picks. I'd root for Chicago if those teams win.
- flyerscup2011

Rooting for the Lightning over the Rangers. There really won't be much of a difference between picking 28th and 29th.

Rooting for the Lightning over the Rangers. There really won't be much of a difference between picking 28th and 29th.
- SuperSchennBros

Right there with you. I was rooting for Tampa to lose to DET in the 1st round to get the better draft pick, but now all I care about in the East is seeing the Rangers lose.

I saw Alderson in Reading a bit and he stood at his point covering the D man and not moving that much. (Of course I am not crazy about coach Courvilles systems for coverage and his slower than molasses breakouts exposing players to hits on the boards.)Alderson- he was sort of like Frank Mahovolich waiting up ice for a pass right on his stick. Later in the season he played with motion ( feet moving) purpose and desire. He always took the body in the E, and showed skill at all points if not "hunger". I was on vacation and only saw the first playoff game so I cant comment. Sometimes these AHL players in the E are just mailing it in. And what do you think of Adam Comrie, who was a significant minus player in the A this year
- Steelmanpa

That's the thing with Alderson. That is what got him the trip to Reading. He has the tools and size. I would have expected a coach who has a reputation for "teaching" to be able to teach the kid to be in the right place or to find that place.

Comrie played hard every time that he was on the ice. I will give him that. There were times that he was sent out for significant PP time in Haag's place. Comrie's ceiling is the AHL. He made mistakes, sometimes BIG mistakes that singlehandedly lost games. Murray often had Delisle and Comrie on in place of Haag in curious spots. Maybe it was for the big bodies, but it seemed like Murray soured on Haag mid-season.

That's the thing with Alderson. That is what got him the trip to Reading. He has the tools and size. I would have expected a coach who has a reputation for "teaching" to be able to teach the kid to be in the right place or to find that place.


- AHLTraveler

There's no such thing as a coach who can get to every player, or improve every player. Some fall through the cracks, and sometimes the blame is on the player, not the coach. Demoting a player such as Alderson, who at one time was looked at with some NHL potential, to the ECHL, kind of tells the story.

The most interesting aspect of Murray being promoted to the big club has nothing to do with Murray.

It would be if Cote becomes head coach of the Phantoms.
- flyer_nutter

Not sure if that is a given outcome.

Riley is brighter guy than many people give him credit for. He made it to the NHL from the Central League against stiff odds. He reminds me of John Stevens in many ways. He has shared the bench with everyone from Greg Gilbert to Terry Murray. One would hope that he has learned the good and bad from each. Whether that translates into a strong candidate to be head coach is debatable.

Not sure if that is a given outcome.

Riley is brighter guy than many people give him credit for. He made it to the NHL from the Central League against stiff odds. He reminds me of John Stevens in many ways. He has shared the bench with everyone from Greg Gilbert to Terry Murray. One would hope that he has learned the good and bad from each. Whether that translates into a strong candidate to be head coach is debatable.
- AHLTraveler

I'd take cote over murray.

Thanks for posting man would love to hear from you more throughout the season on the phantoms

Bad cop, worse cop
- PhillySportsGuy

And you are both?

There's no such thing as a coach who can get to every player, or improve every player. Some fall through the cracks, and sometimes the blame is on the player, not the coach. Demoting a player such as Alderson, who at one time was looked at with some NHL potential, to the ECHL, kind of tells the story.
- MJL

I agree.

My original point was that I saw no appreciable positive changes to any of the youngsters games that proved to me that Murray is the "Grand Teacher" that he is sometimes likened to. Manning's numbers were a product of the situation without Ghost. Cousins excelled on a very helter skelter PP. Gordon, Laughton and Straka seemed to need more of a structured system. Leier floundered. Noebels never improved. If there is one word that best describes the Terry Murray's Phantoms, it would be: "inconsistent".

I'd take cote over murray.

Thanks for posting man would love to hear from you more throughout the season on the phantoms
- Just5

I work in a government office and contributing during the day is nearly impossible on my droid phone. Sorry.

I work in a government office and contributing during the day is nearly impossible on my droid phone. Sorry.
- AHLTraveler

I'm afraid we're going to need you to find a new place of employment.

Some people are rooting for the rangers so the flyers can pick 27th instead of 28th or some poop.

What is this world.

Also did Lappy get fired? I thought he was the assistant?

I agree.

My original point was that I saw no appreciable positive changes to any of the youngsters games that proved to me that Murray is the "Grand Teacher" that he is sometimes likened to. Manning's numbers were a product of the situation without Ghost. Cousins excelled on a very helter skelter PP. Gordon, Laughton and Straka seemed to need more of a structured system. Leier floundered. Noebels never improved. If there is one word that best describes the Terry Murray's Phantoms, it would be: "inconsistent".
- AHLTraveler

It seems as though you've spent a lot of time watching the Phantoms. I haven't so I'm not going to debate individual players, just basic premises. Take Manning for example, it seems as though you've eliminated Murray having any role in Manning's progress as a player, and attributed it to Gostisbehere getting injured. I don't see that as objective.

Button's top 50. Interesting order.


1 Connor McDavid Erie (OHL) C 6'0 195 47 44 120
2 Jack Eichel Boston U (NCAA) C 6'2 195 41 26 71
3 Dylan Strome Erie (OHL) C 6'3 187 68 45 129
4 Mitch Marner London (OHL) RW 5'11 160 63 44 126
5 Ivan Provorov Brandon (WHL) D 6'0 193 60 15 61
6 Kyle Connor Youngstown (USHL) LW/C 6'1 170 56 34 80
7 Zach Werenski Michigan (NCAA) D 6'1 201 35 9 25
8 Timo Meier Halifax (QMJHL) RW 6'1 208 61 44 90
9 Brock Boeser Waterloo (USHL) RW 6'0 187 57 35 68
10 Lawson Crouse Kingston (OHL) LW 6'4 211 56 29 51
11 Nick Merkley Kelowna (WHL) C/RW 5'10 188 72 20 90
12 Noah Hanifin Boston C (NCAA) D 6'2 201 37 5 23
13 Joel Eriksson Ek Farjestad (SHL) C 6'1 180 34 4 6
14 Ilya Samsonov Magnitorgorsk (MHL) G 6'3 203 18 2.66 2
15 Mathew Barzal Seattle (WHL) C 5'11 178 44 12 57
16 Mikko Rantanen TPS (SM Liiga) RW 6'3 211 56 9 28
17 Evgeni Svechnikov Cape Breton (QMJHL) RW 6'1 180 55 32 78
18 Anthony Beauvillier Shawinigan (QMJHL) C/LW 5'10 171 67 42 94
19 Thomas Chabot Saint John (QMJHL) D 6'1 181 66 12 41
20 Denis Guryanov Togilatti 2 (MHL) RW 6'2 183 23 15 25
21 Jake Debrusk Swift Current (WHL) LW 5'11 171 72 42 81
22 Jacob Larsson Frolunda (Swe-J20) D 6'2 191 20 1 3
23 Jansen Harkins Prince George (WHL) C 6'0 181 70 20 79
24 Pavel Zacha Sarnia (OHL) C 6'3 210 37 16 34
25 M. Vande Sompel Oshawa (OHL) D 5'10 182 58 12 63
26 Jakub Zboril Saint John (QMJHL) D 6'0 184 44 13 33
27 Jérémy Roy Sherbrooke (QMJHL) D 5'11 189 46 5 43
28 Jack Roslovic USA NTDP (USHL) C/RW 6'0 182 65 27 67
29 Thomas Novak Waterloo (USHL) C 6'0 174 46 14 48
30 Erik Foley Cedar Rapids (USHL) LW 5'11 185 55 27 52
31 Rasmus Andersson Barrie (OHL) D 6'0 210 67 12 64
32 Colin White USA NTDP (USHL) C 6'0 183 54 23 54
33 Travis Konecny Ottawa (OHL) RW 5'9 173 60 29 68
34 Denis Malgin Zurich (Swiss A) C 5'8 163 23 2 8
35 Paul Bittner Portland (WHL) LW 6'4 206 66 34 71
36 Nicolas Meloche Baie Comeau (QMJHL) D 6'2 199 44 10 34
37 Vladislav Gavrikov Lokomotiv (KHL) D 6'2 205 16 0 1
38 Daniel Sprong Charlottetown (QMJHL) RW 6'1 189 68 39 88
39 Gustav Bouramman Sault Ste. Marie (OHL) D 5'11 184 67 5 44
40 Travis Dermott Erie (OHL) D 5'11 197 61 8 43
41 Noah Juulsen Everett (WHL) D 6'1 175 68 9 52
42 Christian Fischer USA NTDP (USHL) RW 6'1 212 66 31 64
43 Conor Garland Moncton (QMJHL) RW 5'8 163 67 35 129
44 Andrew Mangiapane Barrie (OHL) RW 5'10 170 68 43 104
45 Mitchell Stephens Saginaw (OHL) C/RW 5'11 188 62 22 48
46 Filip Chlapik Charlottetown (QMJHL) C 6'0 194 64 33 75
47 Oliver Kylington Farjestad (SHL) D 6'0 180 18 2 5
48 Felix Sandström Brynas Jr. (Swe-J20) G 6'2 191 8 2.19 0
49 Zachary Senyshyn S. S. Marie (OHL) RW 6'1 192 66 26 45
50 Sebastian Aho Karpat (SM Liiga) RW 5'11 172 27 4 11
- J35Bacher

I know Craig doesnt do mocks but my oh my has Kylington fallen from grace.

I know Craig doesnt do mocks but my oh my has Kylington fallen from grace.
- hereticpride

Craig does 1 mock and that's very near the draft. He does his order as if he was a GM and it's based on how he sees them down the road not at the moment.

As far as Kylington goes I did ask around about him not too long ago and the word I got was he's making mistakes too often & keeps repeating them over & over.

Could it get better sure but right now he's not shown signs that he's working on it or learned how to make them less often.

Lappy to phantoms as head coach and we replace him on nhl level. I think Murray giving him being a defensive guy would now run the pk and defense with hasktol also defensive right behind him. Leaving lappy as your groomer of young talent

Lappy to phantoms as head coach and we replace him on nhl level. I think Murray giving him being a defensive guy would now run the pk and defense with hasktol also defensive right behind him. Leaving lappy as your groomer of young talent
- Tfaehner

My choice to Phantoms coach

I'm afraid we're going to need you to find a new place of employment.
- Crimsoninja

I will try contribute more, when the subject arises.
Like I wrote earlier, I only missed the three Canadian games this year. St. John's is a friggin expensive trip. Toronto mid-week was a killer too. I feel like I can speak with some authority on the Phantoms, past and current. Most of the banter here is geared towards the Flyers and I have less to share.

I will try contribute more, when the subject arises.
Like I wrote earlier, I only missed the three Canadian games this year. St. John's is a friggin expensive trip. Toronto mid-week was a killer too. I feel like I can speak with some authority on the Phantoms, past and current. Most of the banter here is geared towards the Flyers and I have less to share.
- AHLTraveler

That's fine, more insight on the Phantoms will be needed, now that the team seems to see them as a real developmental tool, rather than a place for stashing undrafted free agents or random AHL vets for a season.

It seems as though you've spent a lot of time watching the Phantoms. I haven't so I'm not going to debate individual players, just basic premises. Take Manning for example, it seems as though you've eliminated Murray having any role in Manning's progress as a player, and attributed it to Gostisbehere getting injured. I don't see that as objective.
- MJL

The point was made earlier today that used Manning's and Cousin's increase in point totals as being proof that Murray is an effective teacher for the young players. My argument is that Manning is a fourth year pro whose offensive responsibilities increased this year due, in part, to other circumstances. My entire focus has been to illustrate myopinion that Terry Murray has not taken any of these raw players and helped improve them to the point that they can make the jump to the Flyers.

The counterpoint that the "cupboards were bare" holds no water in my mind because there were definitely some draft picks that should have shown improvement over the course of three years.

The point was made earlier today that used Manning's and Cousin's increase in point totals as being proof that Murray is an effective teacher for the young players. My argument is that Manning is a fourth year pro whose offensive responsibilities increased this year due, in part, to other circumstances. My entire focus has been to illustrate myopinion that Terry Murray has not taken any of these raw players and helped improve them to the point that they can make the jump to the Flyers.

The counterpoint that the "cupboards were bare" holds no water in my mind because there were definitely some draft picks that should have shown improvement over the course of three years.
- AHLTraveler

A lot of those players are fairly young, and making the jump to the NHL is about a lot of things, not just ability. The NHL is a salary cap environment now. That's a factor. Developing into an NHL player is a process. Manning looks like he has some NHL potential, as does Cousins. Not sure how Murray can just be removed as a factor in the improvement of those players. Just because a player like Manning is given more offensive opportunity, due to an injury to another player, doesn't mean he's going to do well with that opportunity.
The amount of players that make the jump to the NHL from the AHL, is a very small percentage.

With any coach, and with any measure or metric of many areas, there are going to be successes and failures. Teams that employ very good coaches have bad seasons and those very good coaches get fired, only later to be hired by another team and finding success again. Have to look at the whole of a coaches performance, not pick out some of the inevitable failures that a coach will have. Murray has a reputation of being a strong developmental coach for a reason. he earned it.