I know the counter argument here will be the age difference between Galchenyuk and JVR, but I also know you didn't mean that.

Also, it should be noted that JVR and Bernier have never had the prominent roles they have on this team under a coach like Babs either. We gotta at least see how they handle it before we cut bait with them

Same goes for Kadri and Gardiner
- TheThrill

Babcock is going to have "a time" with Bernier and Reimer. Babcock goes with the hot hand... always has. They better get a big bucket for Bernier to keep near his locker ... to catch the tears. And more bibles for Reimer.

THERE WAS A FIREFIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!

yup. same with phil. that's why i think both may never reach their career highs in TO. it was shinny out there. PH tried to implement an actual system. Unless they go to Pit, JVR and phil will have to tone down the offense for some responsible hockey
- clark_griswold

This is the other thing, the team, even if it's the same as last year, might be worse off in the standings while trying to adapt to a system they're not used to.


Carlyle was a bad coach because rather than trying to continue to implement the system he tried when he first got here, he decided to throw defense to the wind and maximize the offensive output, relying far too heavily on goaltending to make it all work.

It worked in the shortened season, it worked for most of last season, and it might have worked this season too, if he'd been left in charge for the remainder of the season. But firing him was the right choice.

He maximized the team's strengths, but also made the weaknesses far worse. I can definitely see them being a lot worse, not playing to their strengths, until they get used to the new system.

Which bodes well for the draft pick.

Gibbins head would be nice...
- aminnes

hes a good manager. IMO

doesnt take a Phd to manage a ball game.

Alomar > Fernandez
- The Law

As 2nd basemen.

your hatred of JVR outshines my phaneuf hatred.. impressive
- Dozzer

Thank you.

yep. and everyone win they get my smile gets bigger.
- Lee Denault

me too, its better for my pool

I don't want the rebuild to speed up. I think it'll be five years. I'm just saying that the Leafs actually have a decent top 10 prospect list now. It's not barren like it was in 2008. It looks like a team that has been rebuilding for two-three years already. Nylander, Leivo, Johnson, Leipsic, Brown, Shoshnikov, Verhagie, Gauthier, Percy, Valiev, plus a top 5 pick this year and a second first. Plus there's Rielly, Kadri, and yes JVR on the current roster that is 26 and under. That doesn't even count the prospects we should get for Kessel and Dion. All of the above is far from nothing.
- mykokes

That list is still void of any kind of elite talent like Ovechkin, Toews, Doughty etc. They might have solid prospect depth but the prospect ranks are far from being the envy of the elite teams in the league.

hes a good manager. IMO

doesnt take a Phd to manage a ball game.
- Lee Denault

I haven't checked lately but I think he has a career losing record? And was a bench coach in KC after the Jays turfed him the 1st time......

What pick?
- burn

there was a rumor about detroit getting a 3rd for babcock

JVR is to the Leafs what Nathan Horton was to the Panthers.

I don't want the rebuild to speed up. I think it'll be five years. I'm just saying that the Leafs actually have a decent top 10 prospect list now. It's not barren like it was in 2008. It looks like a team that has been rebuilding for two-three years already. Nylander, Leivo, Johnson, Leipsic, Brown, Shoshnikov, Verhagie, Gauthier, Percy, Valiev, plus a top 5 pick this year and a second first. Plus there's Rielly, Kadri, and yes JVR on the current roster that is 26 and under. That doesn't even count the prospects we should get for Kessel and Dion. All of the above is far from nothing.
- mykokes

it's far from great too. when i look at success, i look at players who are pillars in the important positions.

do we have a potential #1, even #2 centre (we may after the draft)
do we have 2-3 top D prospects/youngsters (rielly)

the above guys, 50% will be lucky to make it, let alone have an impact. POint is, you can go through the other 29 teams and they'd have 'depth' prospects like that above. I wouldn't be so down if we had been good, but to be that bad and have prospects like this is depressing...

Babcock (i'm instantly not depressed anymore)

JVR for 40, Kessel for 50. Easy.
- JohnFergusonJr

i'm lost..what are you saying?

Damien Cox ‏@DamoSpin 1m1 minute ago View translation
Next Leaf target; Steve Stamkos.

there was a rumor about detroit getting a 3rd for babcock
- Lee Denault

Hadn't seen that. From where?


He's a ufa, so no need for compensation no?

I haven't checked lately but I think he has a career losing record? And was a bench coach in KC after the Jays turfed him the 1st time......
- Mr_Smokey

in baseball, looking at wins and losses is pretty close to pointless

Babcock is going to have "a time" with Bernier and Reimer. Babcock goes with the hot hand... always has. They better get a big bucket for Bernier to keep near his locker ... to catch the tears. And more bibles for Reimer.
- BorjeFan4Ever

Which is how it should be. Win your in, people ares obsessed with "number 1" guys. By the way, after seeing what the Burglar took in his deal, it makes Berniers demands as a backup coming from LA look ridiculous...

What pick?
- burn

3rd rounder compensation to the wings for Babs

Hadn't seen that. From where?


He's a ufa, so no need for compensation no?
- burn

i didnt look that much into it. but youll find stuff on it if you search it.

there was a rumor about detroit getting a 3rd for babcock
- Lee Denault

Doesn't make sense. There's no compensation for signing coaches with expired contracts.

That's not the point I'm trying to make.

I'm saying there's more stages than just Rookie and Veteran. Galchenyuk's not a rookie anymore. By Marty's arguments, that makes him a veteran. He's still a developing asset, and I believe JVR and Bernier are as well.

A veteran is a guy you expect other players to learn from either on or off the ice.
- Feeling Glucky?

"Source close to a player" told Championat Galchenyuk is close to signing in the KHL, with several top clubs interested.

Hadn't seen that. From where?


He's a ufa, so no need for compensation no?
- burn

i think it's because his contract officially was to end on July 1st with DET...but we signed him before that date...I think that's why we might be giving up the 3rd...not sure though..

This is the other thing, the team, even if it's the same as last year, might be worse off in the standings while trying to adapt to a system they're not used to.


Carlyle was a bad coach because rather than trying to continue to implement the system he tried when he first got here, he decided to throw defense to the wind and maximize the offensive output, relying far too heavily on goaltending to make it all work.

It worked in the shortened season, it worked for most of last season, and it might have worked this season too, if he'd been left in charge for the remainder of the season. But firing him was the right choice.

He maximized the team's strengths, but also made the weaknesses far worse. I can definitely see them being a lot worse, not playing to their strengths, until they get used to the new system.

Which bodes well for the draft pick.
- Feeling Glucky?

and the long term. no team can win with the 'system' the leafs were using.

Hadn't seen that. From where?


He's a ufa, so no need for compensation no?
- burn

I heard earlier that it was contingent on him signing anywhere. If you ask for permission to speak to him and he signs, you pay a 3rd. No idea if true but read it earlier.

What pick?
- burn

The whole reason why the Leafs got to sign Babcock this early was because the Red Wings made him available at the cost of a 3rd round pick. Or did that change?