Cap savings don't come until 2017 unless you plan on buying out Umberger, which just prolongs his cap hit at a lesser amount.

If you really believe that Umberger and a 4th was the best offer on the table then I don't know what to tell ya. I think Hexy just wanted to move Hartnell and was familiar with Umberger so he pulled the trigger.

If they wanted to dump salary, they should have dumped salary instead of taking back 3 years of the same salary.

If they wanted to get a player that help the team, they should have done that instead.

Hexy tried to play both sides of it and got burned. If Columbus made Hartnell available now, they could move him for a pick without taking back any salary. Instead, the Flyers are stuck with a player who can't even contribute on the 4th line.
- PhillySportsGuy

i thought umberger had 3 years and hartnell had 5 left at the time of the trade. i agree that he could have made a better deal but i really doubt he figured umberger would have that kind of down year.

If you really believe that Umberger and a 4th was the best offer on the table then I don't know what to tell ya. I think Hexy just wanted to move Hartnell and was familiar with Umberger so he pulled the trigger.

- PhillySportsGuy

Personally, I don't know what to tell you, but in my opinion, that's wrong. According to that, you want to believe that Hextall had better offers, but accepted Umberger because he was familiar with him? That's not Ron Hextall.

i thought umberger had 3 years and hartnell had 5 left at the time of the trade. i agree that he could have made a better deal but i really doubt he figured umberger would have that kind of down year.
- hogweed

You're correct.

i thought umberger had 3 years and hartnell had 5 left at the time of the trade. i agree that he could have made a better deal but i really doubt he figured umberger would have that kind of down year.
- hogweed

I'm not sure how he couldn't see this coming from Umberger. Literally every Columbus fan said he was cooked. His advanced stats were atrocious. Even the writers all assumed he'd be bought out.

Umberger still has two years left. Hartnell has 4 years left. Umberger won't clear the cap until 2017-18.

Personally, I don't know what to tell you, but in my opinion, that's wrong. According to that, you want to believe that Hextall had better offers, but accepted Umberger because he was familiar with him? That's not Ron Hextall.
- MJL

Even if that was the best offer, he should have turned it down. If Hartnell played the season in his usual spot with G and Jake, he would have had his usual 55-60 points and been more tradable this year.

The Jackets aren't a cap ceiling team. Maybe they'll take Umberger and the 4th back for Hartnell. Save them tons in the long run!

So if we trade Giroux for Phaneuf, we can't decide if it was a good trade until 2022 to see what the Flyers did with that one year of $8M?
- PhillySportsGuy

Each trade has to be looked at individually. You want to just dismiss the cap angle with the Hartnell/Umberger deal, and that's wrong in my opinion. It also wasn't a trade of one of the top players in the league.

Even if that was the best offer, he should have turned it down. If Hartnell played the season in his usual spot with G and Jake, he would have had his usual 55-60 points and been more tradable this year.

The Jackets aren't a cap ceiling team. Maybe they'll take Umberger and the 4th back for Hartnell. Save them tons in the long run!
- PhillySportsGuy

Maybe he should of, but he was expecting Umberger to be better. This is another HB issue, looking at trades and signings that are made for long term, and look at in the vacuum of the short term. The end results of that trade has not played out yet.

I'm not sure how he couldn't see this coming from Umberger. Literally every Columbus fan said he was cooked. His advanced stats were atrocious. Even the writers all assumed he'd be bought out.

Umberger still has two years left. Hartnell has 4 years left. Umberger won't clear the cap until 2017-18.
- PhillySportsGuy

Hextall should fire his scouting staff and just browse the fan boards and take their word for it. Individual players can't be judged very well by advanced stats. If Umberger can get healthy, he could bounce back.

granted i doubt anyone thought umby would be that bad but not sure how people missed the ultimate purpose of that trade
- hogweed

No means to an end there

I'm not sure how he couldn't see this coming from Umberger. Literally every Columbus fan said he was cooked. His advanced stats were atrocious. Even the writers all assumed he'd be bought out.

Umberger still has two years left. Hartnell has 4 years left. Umberger won't clear the cap until 2017-18.
- PhillySportsGuy

i admit i was not thrilled about the trade when it happened but i also have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes in terms of doing another team a solid....i mean on balance i think we kind of got the better of the mason trade and the carter trade so maybe he felt he owed them?

i admit i was not thrilled about the trade when it happened but i also have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes in terms of doing another team a solid....i mean on balance i think we kind of got the better of the mason trade and the carter trade so maybe he felt he owed them?
- hogweed

I don't believe that kind of thing goes on.

Have to admit, I'm loving the reported misery coming out of Buffalo

Karma's a beast, and for how they did Pat LaFontaine, Ted Nolan and openly tanked for Connor McDavid, I'd say they have had the kind of offseason they deserved

I'm not sure how he couldn't see this coming from Umberger. Literally every Columbus fan said he was cooked. His advanced stats were atrocious. Even the writers all assumed he'd be bought out.

Umberger still has two years left. Hartnell has 4 years left. Umberger won't clear the cap until 2017-18.
- PhillySportsGuy

When will the turkey cap anchor AMac clear?

Maybe he should of, but he was expecting Umberger to be better. This is another HB issue, looking at trades and signings that are made for long term, and look at in the vacuum of the short term. The end results of that trade has not played out yet.
- MJL

I'm not discounting it. If they moved him for nothing but a bag of pucks, I would have been fine.

I just don't feel a 4th rounder + 2 years of cap savings are worth downgrading from a top line LW to a fringe NHLer.

Even if you say wait until we see how they spend the money, it won't be quantifiable. How can you tell what the team used the Hartnell money for? It's impossible.

i admit i was not thrilled about the trade when it happened but i also have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes in terms of doing another team a solid....i mean on balance i think we kind of got the better of the mason trade and the carter trade so maybe he felt he owed them?
- hogweed

Had to even things out:

Mason + Jake trade = +2
Bob + Hartnell trade = -2

I'm not discounting it. If they moved him for nothing but a bag of pucks, I would have been fine.

I just don't feel a 4th rounder + 2 years of cap savings are worth downgrading from a top line LW to a fringe NHLer.

Even if you say wait until we see how they spend the money, it won't be quantifiable. How can you tell what the team used the Hartnell money for? It's impossible.
- PhillySportsGuy

Sure you can -- you can totally say that the Isles spent Andrew MacDonald's cap room on Leddy/Boychuk. It could easily be that simple

Anyone have a link to the game? All my normal outlets aren't working.

Sure you can -- you can totally say that the Isles spent Andrew MacDonald's cap room on Leddy/Boychuk. It could easily be that simple
- AllInForFlyers

Thats over one summer. It's a lot different. The landscape drastically changes over a few years. What if the defenseman all emerge and are still on rookie deals or early rfa deals? Cap space won't really be as much of a worry. What if the CAD bounces back and the cap balloons?

I'm not discounting it. If they moved him for nothing but a bag of pucks, I would have been fine.

I just don't feel a 4th rounder + 2 years of cap savings are worth downgrading from a top line LW to a fringe NHLer.

Even if you say wait until we see how they spend the money, it won't be quantifiable. How can you tell what the team used the Hartnell money for? It's impossible.
- PhillySportsGuy

I think it will be easy to see what they saved, and what they did with it. The trade could also get worse over time. If you're not considering that they can theoretically save cap space, and improve the team in the future as part of the deal, then you're indeed discounting it. These are sometimes the kind of deals you have to make in a cap environment. What threw a wrench into it was the poor season Umberger had. Have to see one, if he is still on the team in October, and two, how he plays.

None of the above addressed the point of Manning being ahead of Schenn on the depth chart. It's just deflecting.
- MJL

And bringing up lauridsen from three years ago is appropriate. Nice work

Had to even things out:

Mason + Jake trade = +2
Bob + Hartnell trade = -2
- PhillySportsGuy

That's the way I look at it

Thats over one summer. It's a lot different. The landscape drastically changes over a few years. What if the defenseman all emerge and are still on rookie deals or early rfa deals? Cap space won't really be as much of a worry. What if the CAD bounces back and the cap balloons?
- PhillySportsGuy

What if all that does happen, then they can use the cap space for something else. Players salaries are also going to escalate.

When will the turkey cap anchor AMac clear?

- Landsbergfan

My best guess 2020 when the rebuild is finished

I think it will be easy to see what they saved, and what they did with it. The trade could also get worse over time. If you're not considering that they can theoretically save cap space, and improve the team in the future as part of the deal, then you're indeed discounting it. These are sometimes the kind of deals you have to make in a cap environment. What threw a wrench into it was the poor season Umberger had. Have to see one, if he is still on the team in October, and two, how he plays.
- MJL

Ok. I'm done. We'll do this again in 6 months.

And bringing up lauridsen from three years ago is appropriate. Nice work
- Just5

Absolutely it is, because it's the same thing. The AHL player who was called up, played a few games, and now is better than the established NHL player. It's a different name every season.