Winnik was a bum IMO. Someone will pay him adn the Pens should not. Dupes is a big ? If he can come back great, if not thats another big hole. PHX is desperate for a C, they could be a partner with the right deal. I keep Lap as a 4C. I thought his game in the playoffs was great.

Kuni-X-X
Spaling-Lap-WB/Wilson/Downie

I see 2 top 6 holes and 2-3 bottom 6 holes depending on what you do with Sutter.
- sammy87

But who are we replacing Sutter with?
Soderberg? Everyone knows he is blind in one eye right.
Sundqvist? Thats asking alot from a kid who hasn't looked that great in WBS.
Spaling? Is he the upgrade everyone is looking for?
I'd like Matthias but with this weak UFA pool he is going to get paid, think Benoit Pouliot money.

Phx may be a good place to shop Sutter to, but what are we looking to get back from them? I know before YouMe&Dupuis gets here and says Boedker, but there is no way they are straight swapping those two, and also Boedker isnt that good. I guess we could trade for prospects but then we have a hole on the 3rd to fill.

Neal trade was fair. Spaling is not a very useful depth forward for his salary and is closer to being a liability than an asset. A win would have been getting something valuable added on top of Hornqvist in the deal. Since ownership probably doesn't want to trade Malkin in the first place, I doubt they would approve of trading him unless it were a major overpayment.
- jfkst1

I would trade Neal for Hornqvist every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I also dont hate Spaling like everyone else does. He may be a bit over paid but he is a good depth forward. He can fill in anywhere in the bottom six and plays a very responsible game.

I have a feeling that Malkin will get traded, but then again I had a feeling the Pens would beat the Rangers too so

But who are we replacing Sutter with?
Soderberg? Everyone knows he is blind in one eye right.
Sundqvist? Thats asking alot from a kid who hasn't looked that great in WBS.
Spaling? Is he the upgrade everyone is looking for?
I'd like Matthias but with this weak UFA pool he is going to get paid, think Benoit Pouliot money.

Phx may be a good place to shop Sutter to, but what are we looking to get back from them? I know before YouMe&Dupuis gets here and says Boedker, but there is no way they are straight swapping those two, and also Boedker isnt that good. I guess we could trade for prospects but then we have a hole on the 3rd to fill.
- stackthepads

Its a crappy position. Outside of 71, Sutter is really the only thing they can move. Maybe a package to get Boedker, but then you need a 3C like you say. Harrington might bring some paint for the ice and zamboni fuel. Berglund is the odd man out in STL, somehow get him? Sutter+bb for Boedker, DP or Dumo for Berglund?

The other problem is that everyone here thinks that every player should score 15+goals and have this really fancy chart.

I would trade Neal for Hornqvist every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I also dont hate Spaling like everyone else does. He may be a bit over paid but he is a good depth forward. He can fill in anywhere in the bottom six and plays a very responsible game.

I have a feeling that Malkin will get traded, but then again I had a feeling the Pens would beat the Rangers too so
- stackthepads

Yeah Spaling is like $500k overpaid, but he had all the leverage. They had no option in the bottom 6 so his agent earned his pay check. Cant blame Spaling. Some here think that Spaling, Adams and Sutter are the reason the Pens were bad. Every team has a few players they wish they could dump. Most of those were also the ones so happy when they brought Scuds back.

Its a crappy position. Outside of 71, Sutter is really the only thing they can move. Maybe a package to get Boedker, but then you need a 3C like you say. Harrington might bring some paint for the ice and zamboni fuel. Berglund is the odd man out in STL, somehow get him? Sutter+bb for Boedker, DP or Dumo for Berglund?

The other problem is that everyone here thinks that every player should score 15+goals and have this really fancy chart.
- sammy87

Berglund is a nice idea, but I dont think I like trading either DP or Dumo for him.

I like the way our D corps is looking for next year.
Letang Maata
DP Lovejoy
Cole Dumo

Aside from Lovejoy thats a very interesting group, lots of talent and mobility. Looks very fluid which really fits our new systems.

I would trade Neal for Hornqvist every day of the week and twice on Sunday. I also dont hate Spaling like everyone else does. He may be a bit over paid but he is a good depth forward. He can fill in anywhere in the bottom six and plays a very responsible game.

I have a feeling that Malkin will get traded, but then again I had a feeling the Pens would beat the Rangers too so
- stackthepads

Neal on Pittsburgh was more productive than Hornqvist on Pittsburgh. Especially on the PP. I would take Hornqvist because I like his game more for the postseason, but I think that is a fair trade. Winning a trade is like Goligoski for Neal+Niskanen. The conditional pick for Jokinen, and the J.Staal for Pouliot, Dumoulin, and Sutter are other examples of wins for Pittsburgh. Cole for Bortuzzo was probably the only "win" I've seen him make.

Its a crappy position. Outside of 71, Sutter is really the only thing they can move. Maybe a package to get Boedker, but then you need a 3C like you say. Harrington might bring some paint for the ice and zamboni fuel. Berglund is the odd man out in STL, somehow get him? Sutter+bb for Boedker, DP or Dumo for Berglund?

The other problem is that everyone here thinks that every player should score 15+goals and have this really fancy chart.
- sammy87

Pouliot's value is WAY more than Dumoulin's. No way would I do DP for Berglund. Look at the remaining teams. They all have much better forward depth than Pittsburgh. Until Pittsburgh doesn't have trash in the bottom 6, they won't be going anywhere in the postseason. Hell, Pens won a cup with Fedotenko and Talbot on Malkin's wings, but they could roll all 4 lines.

Yeah Spaling is like $500k overpaid, but he had all the leverage. They had no option in the bottom 6 so his agent earned his pay check. Cant blame Spaling. Some here think that Spaling, Adams and Sutter are the reason the Pens were bad. Every team has a few players they wish they could dump. Most of those were also the ones so happy when they brought Scuds back.
- sammy87

Exactly.

This years playoffs proved what our problem is and thats not lack of bottom six, or defense or goalie. Everyone is wussyfooting around the obvious and its we cant score. Goals need to come from your top 2 lines with the odd timely one from a roll player. This year our top line produced, and our roll players chipped in. The second line with useless, last year the top line was terrible. Injuries for sure played a roll, but the reality is we have 4 top 6 players, and Crosby and Malkin arent enough to compensate.

Berglund is a nice idea, but I dont think I like trading either DP or Dumo for him.

I like the way our D corps is looking for next year.
Letang Maata
DP Lovejoy
Cole Dumo

Aside from Lovejoy thats a very interesting group, lots of talent and mobility. Looks very fluid which really fits our new systems.
- stackthepads

Their gonna have to fine another D man in FA though. DP and Dumo both are not ready for NHL reg time. They showed signs of their potential, but they also looked pretty awful just as much if not more.

Pouliot's value is WAY more than Dumoulin's. No way would I do DP for Berglund. Look at the remaining teams. They all have much better forward depth than Pittsburgh. Until Pittsburgh doesn't have trash in the bottom 6, they won't be going anywhere in the postseason. Hell, Pens won a cup with Fedotenko and Talbot on Malkin's wings, but they could roll all 4 lines.
- jfkst1

4th lines dont win hockey games. Games are won by the top six, which we dont have.

Their gonna have to fine another D man in FA though. DP and Dumo both are not ready for NHL reg time. They showed signs of their potential, but they also looked pretty awful just as much if not more.
- sammy87

I thought they looked good enough to go with. We could always add a veteran at the deadline if needed.

Pouliot's value is WAY more than Dumoulin's. No way would I do DP for Berglund. Look at the remaining teams. They all have much better forward depth than Pittsburgh. Until Pittsburgh doesn't have trash in the bottom 6, they won't be going anywhere in the postseason. Hell, Pens won a cup with Fedotenko and Talbot on Malkin's wings, but they could roll all 4 lines.
- jfkst1

Yeah DP for Berglund isnt a good trade, maybe Dumo.

The cup year.....dont forget they were in 10th place at teh deadline and looking bad most of the year. Fire the coach, bring in Kuni, dump Whitney they go on a roll. I dont think anyone really thought that team was the best in the east. MAF stole 2 games from Philly, 1 or 2 from the CAPS and 87 won the rest of the series. CAR was a joke and nothing more than a speed bump. Wings almost had the Pens, it was great exciting hockey where they elevated their game when needed. But to think that that roster was a favorite or you can repeat that luck is a bit foolish.

Yeah DP for Berglund isnt a good trade, maybe Dumo.

The cup year.....dont forget they were in 10th place at teh deadline and looking bad most of the year. Fire the coach, bring in Kuni, dump Whitney they go on a roll. I dont think anyone really thought that team was the best in the east. MAF stole 2 games from Philly, 1 or 2 from the CAPS and 87 won the rest of the series. CAR was a joke and nothing more than a speed bump. Wings almost had the Pens, it was great exciting hockey where they elevated their game when needed. But to think that that roster was a favorite or you can repeat that luck is a bit foolish.
- sammy87

Crosby and Malkin were absolute beasts in that playoffs, they were night and day better than every center they faced. In retrospect I think thats been the root of our problems since. We've expected the two headed monster to be enough year after the year, and it hasnt.

Alot of people, and I think Pens brass are very guilty of this. We under estimate just how F'n smart NHL coaching staffs are. Systems have been perfected to stop the two headed monster, they have been very effective.

4th lines dont win hockey games. Games are won by the top six, which we dont have.
- stackthepads

Is that how Chicago is winning with Bryan Bickell in the top 6 and his 28 pts in 80 games? How about Anaheim with Maroon and Beleskey combining for 66 pts in 136 games? You act like all these teams only have 20+ goal/45+ point players in the top 6. They aren't much better in the top 6 than a healthy Penguins team. But where they are better is in the forward depth.

Yeah DP for Berglund isnt a good trade, maybe Dumo.

The cup year.....dont forget they were in 10th place at teh deadline and looking bad most of the year. Fire the coach, bring in Kuni, dump Whitney they go on a roll. I dont think anyone really thought that team was the best in the east. MAF stole 2 games from Philly, 1 or 2 from the CAPS and 87 won the rest of the series. CAR was a joke and nothing more than a speed bump. Wings almost had the Pens, it was great exciting hockey where they elevated their game when needed. But to think that that roster was a favorite or you can repeat that luck is a bit foolish.
- sammy87

The same core went to the finals the year before. It wasn't just a fluke. Overall Fleury was very average in that postseason. Malkin and Crosby did both have better postseasons than basically anyone in the salary cap era. But the biggest contrast between those teams and this team is the forward depth. Those top 6 wingers were nothing special at all.

Is that how Chicago is winning with Bryan Bickell in the top 6 and his 28 pts in 80 games? How about Anaheim with Maroon and Beleskey combining for 66 pts in 136 games? You act like all these teams only have 20+ goal/45+ point players in the top 6. They aren't much better in the top 6 than a healthy Penguins team. But where they are better is in the forward depth.
- jfkst1

You're kidding right?

Chicago top 6:
Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bickle, Saad

Anaheim top 6:
Getzlaf, Perry, Maroon, Kesler, Belesky, Silverberg

Pens top 6:
Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist, Perron, Comeau, Kunitz


There is an argument to be made that the right bottom six player can compliment a top six, Dupuis is a great example of us doing it. But you cant just keep throwing bottom six players at Crosby and Malkin and say "here try this guy" Chicago and Anaheim have two overwhelmingly strong players who are complimented by a big player thats job is to create space and go to the net with their stick on the ice.. We arent doing that.

Im curious what kind of return everyone thinks we can get for Sutter?
From what I can see we have a pretty decent looking bottom 6 next year with 2 re-signs

Kunitz Sutter Dupuis
Winnik Spaling Comeau
I'd also re-sign Lapierre or Downie to be the 13th fwd.

Thats pretty damn good if you ask me.
Add to that the top line of
Perron Crosby Hornqvist.

looking really good.

Second line is Malkin. We dont have anyone to play on that line, and we have zero assets available to us to fill even one of the holes.
- stackthepads

here's the problem with that though: you have a lot of overpaid guys on that bottom 6 who arent going to justify their cap hits. penguins need to unload at least one or two of those guys to make room for other allocation of our cap.

here's the problem with that though: you have a lot of overpaid guys on that bottom 6 who arent going to justify their cap hits. penguins need to unload at least one or two of those guys to make room for other allocation of our cap.
- SuperHenderson13

No we dont, we are afforded the luxury of having expensive forwards because we can finally reap the rewards of ELC. We are saving 9 million on defense this year, by the time we need to reward the rookie dmen Kunitz and Dupuis will be coming off the books.

We need to unload Malkin's 9.5 for two players that combine to the same range, then add one more player in the 5mil range and we are set.

You're kidding right?

Chicago top 6:
Toews, Kane, Sharp, Hossa, Bickle, Saad

Anaheim top 6:
Getzlaf, Perry, Maroon, Kesler, Belesky, Silverberg

Pens top 6:
Crosby, Malkin, Hornqvist, Perron, Comeau, Kunitz


There is an argument to be made that the right bottom six player can compliment a top six, Dupuis is a great example of us doing it. But you cant just keep throwing bottom six players at Crosby and Malkin and say "here try this guy" Chicago and Anaheim have two overwhelmingly strong players who are complimented by a big player thats job is to create space and go to the net with their stick on the ice.. We arent doing that.
- stackthepads

PIT top 6 pts= 317
CHI top 6 pts= 351
ANA top 6 pts= 277
NYR top 6 pts= 331
TB top 6 pts= 374

Anaheim has easily the least productive top 6 out of the teams remaining. They are also one of the largest teams in the league. Especially up front. The rest of the remaining teams are smaller and probably some of the fastest teams in the league.

PIT top 6 pts= 317
CHI top 6 pts= 351
ANA top 6 pts= 277
NYR top 6 pts= 331
TB top 6 pts= 374

Anaheim has easily the least productive top 6 out of the teams remaining. They are also one of the largest teams in the league. Especially up front. The rest of the remaining teams are smaller and probably some of the fastest teams in the league.
- jfkst1

Now do it for the playoffs.

Now do it for the playoffs.
- stackthepads

Malkin and Crosby are top 20 all time in PPG in the playoffs. The difference between depth forward and top 6 forwards is getting smaller and Pittsburgh should be addressing that. It's actually something Rutherford has control over as opposed to getting a top 6 winger which might not be possible.

So a 17 goal season gets you almost 4 mil? I don't even try to be armchair GM with the whole salary cap thing but I don't think you're a very good one. I bet both would take slight raises.
- Grinder47

Think what you want.

Just know 2.5 x 700k = 1.75 million. Not 4 million. And Comeau's 17 goals will entitle him to that raise.

Im curious what kind of return everyone thinks we can get for Sutter?
From what I can see we have a pretty decent looking bottom 6 next year with 2 re-signs

Kunitz Sutter Dupuis
Winnik Spaling Comeau
I'd also re-sign Lapierre or Downie to be the 13th fwd.

Thats pretty damn good if you ask me.
Add to that the top line of
Perron Crosby Hornqvist.

looking really good.

Second line is Malkin. We dont have anyone to play on that line, and we have zero assets available to us to fill even one of the holes.
- stackthepads

Another reason to go get Semin from Carolina at 3.5 mil a year for 3 years! I refuse to believe he could make 3.5 mil a year a horrid investment.

Rangers just continue to win games they have no business winning.

I guess sometimes its just your year.
- SuperHenderson13

- rangerdanger94

Ha ha they're very resilient. Hank is tremendous in game 7's. Thought Washington dominated the ot but hank was great. Good luck in the finals