Who offers, "guarantees of playing time/spot"?

Then again, we have been talking about WD and his loyalty to veterans. If he can make the club out of training camp, then great, if he can't well... Most people want what they earn. If he isn't ready for the NHL, guy shouldn't expect to be playing there. Feck it, trade his rights.
- hillbillydeluxe

I would go that far. He can trade his rights quite easily if Subban won't sign here so losing him for nothing is inexcusable.
- Nucker101

I don't think his rights are worth much. I know Erixson got two 2nds and prospect in a similar situation but Erixson was a much higher regarded prospect at the time, just finishing up a very good season in the SEL.

I guess a 6th is better than nothing but I really doubt his rights would fetch more than that.

The Oilers do.
- CubanBuffet

I was just thinking of the same thing in terms of ntc. You give someone a guarantee of playing time, if they aren't keeping up their end of the bargain, they shouldn't be getting the ice time.

Player isn't performing up to standards, has a ntc, you have to ask him to waive... Sh!t changes, have to adapt.

If I see one more god damn Habs car-flag, I'm setting the car on fire with everyone in it!!!

God I hate the Habs and there obnoxious fans!!!
- Marwood

Carefull I got banned for that statement in the Ott thread by the hab ref

I was just thinking of the same thing in terms of ntc. You give someone a guarantee of playing time, if they aren't keeping up their end of the bargain, they shouldn't be getting the ice time.

Player isn't performing up to standards, has a ntc, you have to ask him to waive... Sh!t changes, have to adapt.


- hillbillydeluxe

Again, I'm pretty sure you cannot make those kind of guarantees into a contract, they can "promise" a player something, like Vrbata was likely told he would be playing with the sedins but it wasn't in his contract.

Almost all players say they want to go play on an NHL team, I would be disappointed if that wasn't the goal. Subban as far as I can tell will be playing in AHL or NHL next season as this was his last in junior.

I really doubt this has anything to do with what Subban wants, again the only things that are negotiable are the bonuses. I don't think he can demand ice time in his contract or anything like that.
- belcherbd

I'd want a player to say that he's willing to play wherever the team feels he's best suited for. Otherwise you get a situation where a player thinks he's entitled to play rather than feeling like he needs to work for it. He's not projected to be even close to as good as his older brother, so why is he being so arrogant? He's a 4th round pick, not a 1st.

I don't think his rights are worth much. I know Erixson got two 2nds and prospect in a similar situation but Erixson was a much higher regarded prospect at the time, just finishing up a very good season in the SEL.

I guess a 6th is better than nothing but I really doubt his rights would fetch more than that.
- belcherbd

Why not? It's not like he's going to be a UFA, he's going back into the draft. He was originally selected in the 4th round and has progressed nicely since then. I doubt he falls further this time, if anything he'll probably go earlier so why wouldn't a team give up a 4th to make sure they can get him before he gets drafted ahead of them.

I know your counter argument will likely be that Benning loses leverage when he starts shopping him around, but there's 29 possible trade partners, I'd assume at least half of them would at least be interested. I doubt all of them will just lowball him with a 5th or 6th.

- Marwood

sieg heils

I'd want a player to say that he's willing to play wherever the team feels he's best suited for. Otherwise you get a situation where a player thinks he's entitled to play rather than feeling like he needs to work for it. He's not projected to be even close to as good as his older brother, so why is he being so arrogant? He's a 4th round pick, not a 1st.
- DariusKnight

I don't think he is being arrogant, Shink said he expected to make the Canucks after his first training camp but no one was calling him arrogant? They said this kid has confidence.

Gaunce just said the other day that his goal was to make the the canucks next year, is that arrogant?

Players signing their entry level contract have very few cards to play, and my guess it is Benning who is the one stalling the process.

Benning has a bunch of RFA's and perhaps he doesn't want to waste a contract on Subban.

I'd want a player to say that he's willing to play wherever the team feels he's best suited for. Otherwise you get a situation where a player thinks he's entitled to play rather than feeling like he needs to work for it. He's not projected to be even close to as good as his older brother, so why is he being so arrogant? He's a 4th round pick, not a 1st.
- DariusKnight

His agent? greed?

Certainly making a name for himself Crazy situation. Like you said, 4th rounder, haven't heard anyone mention him as being a blue chip, can't miss prospect. Who is filling his head with crazy expectations or demands?

I don't think he is being arrogant, Shink said he expected to make the Canucks after his first training camp but no one was calling him arrogant? They said this kid has confidence.

Gaunce just said the other day that his goal was to make the the canucks next year, is that arrogant?

Players signing their entry level contract have very few cards to play, and my guess it is Benning who is the one stalling the process.

Benning has a bunch of RFA's and perhaps he doesn't want to waste a contract on Subban.
- belcherbd

If this is true, we're in for a fun ride with Benning.

Why not? It's not like he's going to be a UFA, he's going back into the draft. He was originally selected in the 4th round and has progressed nicely since then. I doubt he falls further this time, if anything he'll probably go earlier so why wouldn't a team give up a 4th to make sure they can get him before he gets drafted ahead of them.

I know your counter argument will likely be that Benning loses leverage when he starts shopping him around, but there's 29 possible trade partners, I'd assume at least half of them would at least be interested. I doubt all of them will just lowball him with a 5th or 6th.
- Nucker101

I don't think Subban as an overager who is still undersized gets drafted ahead of his previous draft position.

Don't get me wrong I want him signed and think he is a good prospect but I don't think his rights will have much value.

If this is true, we're in for a fun ride with Benning.
- Nucker101

Does he play hard ball with everyone?

Really want to see him move some ntc's and open up more options.

I don't think he is being arrogant, Shink said he expected to make the Canucks after his first training camp but no one was calling him arrogant? They said this kid has confidence.

Gaunce just said the other day that his goal was to make the the canucks next year, is that arrogant?

Players signing their entry level contract have very few cards to play, and my guess it is Benning who is the one stalling the process.

Benning has a bunch of RFA's and perhaps he doesn't want to waste a contract on Subban.
- belcherbd

Difference is, Shink is a 1st rounder and projects to have NHL talent and nearly did make the Canucks in his first training camp. Can Subban say the same? Gaunce as well was a first rounder plus he had 2 years seasoning in the minors to show he's close to NHL-ready. There's a HUGE difference in those situations to Subban. Why would you say it's Benning who's stalling the process? You're right that there's not much that can be negotiated so what would Benning need to stall for? He can't exactly lowball Subban salary-wise and all. I'd say it's more Subban and his agent wanting guarantees of some sort that would make Benning balk.

People keep ripping the Luca Sbisa signing but I love it. He's young, big, fast and throws hit. I wish Tanev did that, I still can't believe they paid Tanev that much money.
- Nucker101

He's got a nice touch around the net too.

I don't think Subban as an overager who is still undersized gets drafted ahead of his previous draft position.

Don't get me wrong I want him signed and think he is a good prospect but I don't think his rights will have much value.
- belcherbd

You got no issue with his size after what you saw this playoffs?

I don't think Subban as an overager who is still undersized gets drafted ahead of his previous draft position.

Don't get me wrong I want him signed and think he is a good prospect but I don't think his rights will have much value.
- belcherbd

He had the highest age-adjusted PPG on his team by a good margin as a defensemen which is pretty rare in junior hockey. His age-adjusted PPG was .62, the next highest on his team was .51 and that's a forward. the next highest d-man on his team is at .44 PPG.

Most top defensive prospects leading their team in age-adjusted PPG get drafted in the first 2 rounds, even the smaller ones. He was 13th in the OHL in that category among all defensemen. The only drafted defensemen ahead of him were:

Darnell Nurse(EDM's top D prospect on a much better team)
Chris Bigras(COL's top D prospect, also on a better team)
Anthony DeAngelo(TB's top D prospect, same team as Nurse)

Does he play hard ball with everyone?

Really want to see him move some ntc's and open up more options.
- hillbillydeluxe

Shockingly, Luca Sbisa's agent says the negotiation with Benning was quite easy.

If this is true, we're in for a fun ride with Benning.
- Nucker101

It has already started off a bit bumpy but I'm not ready to judge him yet.

I think I will be more upset if he doesn't resign Grenier at this point. He has had 2 very successful season's in the AHL now and has great size. Who was the last forward prospect this team has had that actually developed in the AHL?

Hansen probably was the last guy, then Kesler and Burrows.

He had the highest age-adjusted PPG on his team by a good margin as a defensemen. his age-adjusted PPG was .62, the next highest on his team was .51 and that's a forward. the next highest d-man on his team is at .44 PPG.

Most top defensive prospects leading their team in age-adjusted PPG get drafted in the first 2 rounds, even the smaller ones. He was 13th in the OHL in that category among all defensemen. The only drafted defensemen ahead of him were:

Darnell Nurse(EDM's top D prospect on a much better team)
Chris Bigras(COL's top D prospect, also on a better team)
Anthony DeAngelo(TB's top D prospect, same team as Nurse)
- Nucker101

You don't need to sell me on him, but you can't compare his numbers as a 20 year old to those other players as 17 year olds.

People keep ripping the Luca Sbisa signing but I love it. He's young, big, fast and throws hit. I wish Tanev did that, I still can't believe they paid Tanev that much money.
- Nucker101

He's good in the scrums too - can't be overlooked

His agent? greed?

Certainly making a name for himself Crazy situation. Like you said, 4th rounder, haven't heard anyone mention him as being a blue chip, can't miss prospect. Who is filling his head with crazy expectations or demands?
- hillbillydeluxe

Maybe he doesn't want to play in VAN.

Maybe he doesn't want to play in VAN.
- VanHockeyGuy

'!'

Maybe he doesn't want to play in VAN.
- VanHockeyGuy

There is ALWAYS two sides to every story...

You don't need to sell me on him, but you can't compare his numbers as a 20 year old to those other players as 17 year olds.
- belcherbd

That's why I used age-adjusted PPG.

Also Nurse, Bigras and him are the same age.