I fully get they're not going to come out and tell the world their plan, but I just don't trust them at this point. Until I see at least two vets gone from the roster or a blockbuster, I'm skeptical.
- LeftCoaster

You dont trust them? Its been one year. Its conceivable to say " Im not sure if I'll trust them going forward" but to say "I dont trust them" after a successful year IMHO is stupid.

90% of the guys on the thread at the beginning of the year said we had no chance of making the playoffs.

I didnt trust Gillis. Benning sounds partially retarded when hes on air. But the guy is thinking about the future. Hence why he wasnt at 4 or 5 of our playoff games.

Scoutings in his blood.

I dont know if I exactly trust him yet. But never, this early in his tenure would I say I dont trust him.

Seems ignorant.

What would you prefer he do? Straight up tank? Empty out our meagre prospect pool to try and find an impact player? Without considering the fact that most of what you hear in season ending pressers is total BS, the Canucks don't exactly have a lot of roster flexibility.
- CubanBuffet

I'm willing to give Benning some more rope, as well as the rest of the mgmt group as they provided me with a very enjoyable season, even if the last game was frustrating.

But that said I think Benning is responsible for some of that lack of roster flexibility.

When you look at his body of work which is a very small sample size I admit, it doesn't scream great talent evaluator, which is one the things he has been sold as.

Now I understand some of these deal were difficult, like the Kesler trade where he didn't have much choice apparently.

I do think he has moved a lot of assets for guys he hoped would be ready to step in this year or next and time will tell on Bae/Vey/Clendenning

He also has shot himself in the foot with the amount of salary given to some players which may or may not be a big deal.

Overpaid for Miller
Underwhelming return for Kesler
Great UFA signing in Vrbata
Moved top 4 D for a underwhelming return
acquired Vey for a 2nd ( but Vey wasn't ready like he hoped imo)
acquired Dorsett for a 3rd
acquired Clendening for a younger prospect ( but Clendenning wasn't ready yet)
acquired Bae for a 2nd (but Bae wasn't ready yet)
signed Dorsett to a generous contract for a 4th line energy guy
overpayed Sbisa in both term and salary when he didn't need to
Signed Tanev to a generous contract for a top 4 D of his ilk.

I read that this morning, real headshaker for me?? He wants to be loyal to his vets and has no interest in kids being injected into the line-up....WTF Willie
- LeftCoaster

Yea big red flag for me. I think he won't have much choice though, probably going to see empty roster spots otherwise

I'm willing to give Benning some more rope, as well as the rest of the mgmt group as they provided me with a very enjoyable season, even if the last game was frustrating.

But that said I think Benning is responsible for some of that lack of roster flexibility.

When you look at his body of work which is a very small sample size I admit, it doesn't scream great talent evaluator, which is one the things he has been sold as.

Now I understand some of these deal were difficult, like the Kesler trade where he didn't have much choice apparently.

I do think he has moved a lot of assets for guys he hoped would be ready to step in this year or next and time will tell on Bae/Vey/Clendenning

He also has shot himself in the foot with the amount of salary given to some players which may or may not be a big deal.

Overpaid for Miller
Underwhelming return for Kesler
Great UFA signing in Vrbata
Moved top 4 D for a underwhelming return
acquired Vey for a 2nd ( but Vey wasn't ready like he hoped imo)
acquired Dorsett for a 3rd
acquired Clendening for a younger prospect ( but Clendenning wasn't ready yet)
acquired Bae for a 2nd (but Bae wasn't ready yet)
signed Dorsett to a generous contract for a 4th line energy guy
overpayed Sbisa in both term and salary when he didn't need to
Signed Tanev to a generous contract for a top D of his ilk.
- belcherbd

Can't really disagree with any of this.

Join the club...
- Nucker101

Like not even

I'm looking for a Bieksa trade to acquire a draft pick, to let Matthias and Richardson go to free agency, Higgins to be traded for a draft pick. For Benning to make some good selections.

That's the kind of change I'd like to see! Nothing drastic but moving in the direction I'd like to see.
- LeftCoaster

I agree, and that is what we likely see occur. I'm not going to be surprised if the return for Bieksa and Higgins is underwhelming, my guess is B level prospects or 3/4th round picks.

I'm willing to give Benning some more rope, as well as the rest of the mgmt group as they provided me with a very enjoyable season, even if the last game was frustrating.

But that said I think Benning is responsible for some of that lack of roster flexibility.

When you look at his body of work which is a very small sample size I admit, it doesn't scream great talent evaluator, which is one the things he has been sold as.

Now I understand some of these deal were difficult, like the Kesler trade where he didn't have much choice apparently.

I do think he has moved a lot of assets for guys he hoped would be ready to step in this year or next and time will tell on Bae/Vey/Clendenning

He also has shot himself in the foot with the amount of salary given to some players which may or may not be a big deal.

Overpaid for Miller
Underwhelming return for Kesler
Great UFA signing in Vrbata
Moved top 4 D for a underwhelming return
acquired Vey for a 2nd ( but Vey wasn't ready like he hoped imo)
acquired Dorsett for a 3rd
acquired Clendening for a younger prospect ( but Clendenning wasn't ready yet)
acquired Bae for a 2nd (but Bae wasn't ready yet)
signed Dorsett to a generous contract for a 4th line energy guy
overpayed Sbisa in both term and salary when he didn't need to
Signed Tanev to a generous contract for a top D of his ilk.
- belcherbd

You understand what Bennings plan is correct. Makes playoffs every year, while making the team get younger

"Moving on, there’s the matter of Bo Horvat. Anyone — and I mean anyone from Rudy Pilous to Toe Blake to Ray Charles — could see Horvat was the team’s second-best centre and third-best forward in the playoffs. But Horvat was eighth among Canucks’ forwards in ice time (12:40 per game), some four minutes fewer than Nick Bonino and Chris Higgins.

Again, look at the Flames, Eighteen-year-old Sam Bennett averaged almost two minutes more per game than Horvat. Sean Monahan, who’s six months older than Horvat, played just under 20 minutes a game.

This is also problematic because, over the next couple of years, the Canucks will be integrating younger players into their lineup. When asked if he’s prepared to take the bubble-wrap off Horvat next season, Desjardins said he’d let the kid find his own way and he wouldn’t force him into a role. Really? At the risk of repeating ourselves, Horvat is Patrice Bergeron and he might be Jonathan Toews. And you’re going to monitor his ice time for Nick Bonino?"

Willis on ice-time.

I'm willing to give Benning some more rope, as well as the rest of the mgmt group as they provided me with a very enjoyable season, even if the last game was frustrating.

But that said I think Benning is responsible for some of that lack of roster flexibility.

When you look at his body of work which is a very small sample size I admit, it doesn't scream great talent evaluator, which is one the things he has been sold as.

Now I understand some of these deal were difficult, like the Kesler trade where he didn't have much choice apparently.

I do think he has moved a lot of assets for guys he hoped would be ready to step in this year or next and time will tell on Bae/Vey/Clendenning

He also has shot himself in the foot with the amount of salary given to some players which may or may not be a big deal.

Overpaid for Miller
Underwhelming return for Kesler
Great UFA signing in Vrbata
Moved top 4 D for a underwhelming return
acquired Vey for a 2nd ( but Vey wasn't ready like he hoped imo)
acquired Dorsett for a 3rd
acquired Clendening for a younger prospect ( but Clendenning wasn't ready yet)
acquired Bae for a 2nd (but Bae wasn't ready yet)
signed Dorsett to a generous contract for a 4th line energy guy
overpayed Sbisa in both term and salary when he didn't need to
Signed Tanev to a generous contract for a top D of his ilk.
- belcherbd

You have me on some of these, but the Tanev contract is good, and it's not fair to judge Baertschi yet Benning said at the time he doubted he would stay up for the year or even play. Clendening also wasn't expected to play consistently this year

You understand what Bennings plan is correct. Makes playoffs every year, while making the team get younger
- manvanfan

That's very difficult to do without great scouting and the Canucks scouting over the past 10 years hasn't even been average..

I'm willing to give Benning some more rope, as well as the rest of the mgmt group as they provided me with a very enjoyable season, even if the last game was frustrating.

But that said I think Benning is responsible for some of that lack of roster flexibility.

When you look at his body of work which is a very small sample size I admit, it doesn't scream great talent evaluator, which is one the things he has been sold as.

Now I understand some of these deal were difficult, like the Kesler trade where he didn't have much choice apparently.

I do think he has moved a lot of assets for guys he hoped would be ready to step in this year or next and time will tell on Bae/Vey/Clendenning

He also has shot himself in the foot with the amount of salary given to some players which may or may not be a big deal.

Overpaid for Miller
Underwhelming return for Kesler
Great UFA signing in Vrbata
Moved top 4 D for a underwhelming return
acquired Vey for a 2nd ( but Vey wasn't ready like he hoped imo)
acquired Dorsett for a 3rd
acquired Clendening for a younger prospect ( but Clendenning wasn't ready yet)
acquired Bae for a 2nd (but Bae wasn't ready yet)
signed Dorsett to a generous contract for a 4th line energy guy
overpayed Sbisa in both term and salary when he didn't need to
Signed Tanev to a generous contract for a top D of his ilk.
- belcherbd

I don't like Miller's salary, but I don't think he overpaid.
Not sure if anyone else could have done better with the Kesler trade and limited options.
Same with Garrisons trade, limited options. Was it more about the return or making cap space?

I am notoriously out to lunch when it comes to how much stuff costs. Are all these guys really over paid or is it just the market and if they weren't resigned, how much would similar replacements be?'

I don't like the Sbisa cap hit, but not sure if there were any alternatives.

I read that this morning, real headshaker for me?? He wants to be loyal to his vets and has no interest in kids being injected into the line-up....WTF Willie
- LeftCoaster

I think every coach is like that, but Willie D takes it to an extreme. The scary part is that he openly admits that he's stubborn and extremely loyal to a fault and clearly doesn't plan on changing his ways.

You have me on some of these, but the Tanev contract is good, and it's not fair to judge Baertschi yet Benning said at the time he doubted he would stay up for the year or even play. Clendening also wasn't expected to play consistently this year
- bezz44

I like the Tanev contract but I do think that when you look at his comparables, he probably got a big more money than the rest of the market. Again don't have a problem with the contract at all, just stating that it wasn't a steal of a deal.

I'm also not judging Baertschi and Clendenning as well yet, but if they can't make the roster next year or an impact as a call up that window starts to close. Those moves might well play out and I am willing to wait and see but by moving picks and younger assets for older ones, there is a shorter time frame for success.

"Moving on, there’s the matter of Bo Horvat. Anyone — and I mean anyone from Rudy Pilous to Toe Blake to Ray Charles — could see Horvat was the team’s second-best centre and third-best forward in the playoffs. But Horvat was eighth among Canucks’ forwards in ice time (12:40 per game), some four minutes fewer than Nick Bonino and Chris Higgins.

Again, look at the Flames, Eighteen-year-old Sam Bennett averaged almost two minutes more per game than Horvat. Sean Monahan, who’s six months older than Horvat, played just under 20 minutes a game.

This is also problematic because, over the next couple of years, the Canucks will be integrating younger players into their lineup. When asked if he’s prepared to take the bubble-wrap off Horvat next season, Desjardins said he’d let the kid find his own way and he wouldn’t force him into a role. Really? At the risk of repeating ourselves, Horvat is Patrice Bergeron and he might be Jonathan Toews. And you’re going to monitor his ice time for Nick Bonino?"

Willis on ice-time.
- LeftCoaster

I agree to a certain extent, I think Bo has proved he can handle more ice time but I think WD is being very careful not to put expectations on a young player after a very successful rookie season. I don't care what WD says, but will be disappointed if he continues to go to vets if Bo is playing like he did this post-season.

I'm willing to give Benning some more rope, as well as the rest of the mgmt group as they provided me with a very enjoyable season, even if the last game was frustrating.

But that said I think Benning is responsible for some of that lack of roster flexibility.

When you look at his body of work which is a very small sample size I admit, it doesn't scream great talent evaluator, which is one the things he has been sold as.

Now I understand some of these deal were difficult, like the Kesler trade where he didn't have much choice apparently.

I do think he has moved a lot of assets for guys he hoped would be ready to step in this year or next and time will tell on Bae/Vey/Clendenning

He also has shot himself in the foot with the amount of salary given to some players which may or may not be a big deal.

Overpaid for Miller
Underwhelming return for Kesler
Great UFA signing in Vrbata
Moved top 4 D for a underwhelming return
acquired Vey for a 2nd ( but Vey wasn't ready like he hoped imo)
acquired Dorsett for a 3rd
acquired Clendening for a younger prospect ( but Clendenning wasn't ready yet)
acquired Bae for a 2nd (but Bae wasn't ready yet)
signed Dorsett to a generous contract for a 4th line energy guy
overpayed Sbisa in both term and salary when he didn't need to
Signed Tanev to a generous contract for a top 4 D of his ilk.
- belcherbd

1. Agreed on Miller. Even if he wanted a vet, I doubt Miller had so many teams chasing him, 2 years or less money with 3 years would have gotten it done most likely. Miller clearly wanted to play in California, or at least somehwere out West. Hated this move from the start.

2. Kesler put him in that position, but it seems to me like Benning requested Sbisa to be included when originally i had assumed the Ducks wanted him in the deal as a cap dump..scary. So I'm counting this as a strike against him too. Didn't like the deal from day 1 but understood that Kesler backed the rookie GM into a corner, but the Sbisa part of this deal just pisses me off.

3. Yup, Vrbata was an excellent signing, his first choice was to sign Iggy apparently but even Iggy would have had a good first year here judging by what he did in Colorado.

4. Agreed on Garrison, smart move was to try and force Bieksa or just keep Garrison.

5. Benning said he personally scouted Vey in the AHL, so far he doesn't look too promising and the Canucks paid basically full price to acquire him.

6. Dorsett for a 3rd I can live with. I liked the deal at that time.

7. I'm fine with the Clendening deal, Forsling might not even be a successful AHL player and Clendening had great AHL numbers for a young dman before this year.

8. I liked the Baerstchi move, I just think of it as drafting a player like him with the late 2nd rounder and to me that's a good move.

9. Overpaid for Dorsett(who I like). Both with term and cap hit.

10. Sbisa contract.......I'm not allowed to post what i really think of it without getting banned. Ugh...just ugh.

11. Love the Tanev deal.

I like the Tanev contract but I do think that when you look at his comparables, he probably got a big more money than the rest of the market. Again don't have a problem with the contract at all, just stating that it wasn't a steal of a deal.

I'm also not judging Baertschi and Clendenning as well yet, but if they can't make the roster next year or an impact as a call up that window starts to close. Those moves might well play out and I am willing to wait and see but by moving picks and younger assets for older ones, there is a shorter time frame for success.
- belcherbd

True, but he and his agent took 2 straight deals way below market value as "prove-it" contracts. Typically players only take one of those, but Benning likely played the new GM card and promised that they'd be compensated for taking less on a second straight cheap short-term contract. At least that's what i'm speculating.

I don't like Miller's salary, but I don't think he overpaid.
Not sure if anyone else could have done better with the Kesler trade and limited options.
Same with Garrisons trade, limited options. Was it more about the return or making cap space?

I am notoriously out to lunch when it comes to how much stuff costs. Are all these guys really over paid or is it just the market and if they weren't resigned, how much would similar replacements be?'

I don't like the Sbisa cap hit, but not sure if there were any alternatives.
- hillbillydeluxe

Miller was widely reported as only being interested in teams that were on the west coast. He had a pretty pedestrian season going in FA and still ended up getting 6th highest salary in the league for goal-tending.

I'm not sure if other managers could of done better than Benning on Kesler, but I do know that St. Louis put Stevie Y in as tough as a situation and Tampa made out pretty good. 1st in both 2014 and 2015 as well as Callahan and a 7th for Marty and a 2nd.

Benning did need to move some bodies and salary, so he could afford Miller at 6 million per. Garrison was the choice which hindsight shows wasn't great, I'm not criticizing that as much as what he received for him. How is a 2nd pick worth a top 4 D when you spend a 2nd on a prospect like Vey?

These are obviously just my opinions but this is why I am not ready to anoint Benning as the savior yet.

I like the Tanev contract but I do think that when you look at his comparables, he probably got a big more money than the rest of the market. Again don't have a problem with the contract at all, just stating that it wasn't a steal of a deal.

I'm also not judging Baertschi and Clendenning as well yet, but if they can't make the roster next year or an impact as a call up that window starts to close. Those moves might well play out and I am willing to wait and see but by moving picks and younger assets for older ones, there is a shorter time frame for success.
- belcherbd

Fair enough, but the wording you used was a bit negative and implied that they were expected to contribute immediately when that wasn't the case

True, but he and his agent took 2 straight deals way below market value as "prove-it" contracts. Typically players only take one of those, but Benning likely played the new GM card and promised that they'd be compensated for taking less on a second straight cheap short-term contract. At least that's what i'm speculating.
- Nucker101

I agree with all of this, and my original statement with Tanev and Dorsett getting generous contracts isn't a criticism as I believe those players deserve those deals, I am stating that the deals are not something to hang your hat on as an achievement though. Had he signed Tavev to a 3.5 contract I would be busting out the champagne, he signed him to a fair contract and I love the player.

1. Agreed on Miller. Even if he wanted a vet, I doubt Miller had so many teams chasing him, 2 years or less money with 3 years would have gotten it done most likely. Miller clearly wanted to play in California, or at least somehwere out West. Hated this move from the start.

2. Kesler put him in that position, but it seems to me like Benning requested Sbisa to be included when originally i had assumed the Ducks wanted him in the deal as a cap dump..scary. So I'm counting this as a strike against him too. Didn't like the deal from day 1 but understood that Kesler backed the rookie GM into a corner, but the Sbisa part of this deal just pisses me off.

3. Yup, Vrbata was an excellent signing, his first choice was to sign Iggy apparently but even Iggy would have had a good first year here judging by what he did in Colorado.

4. Agreed on Garrison, smart move was to try and force Bieksa or just keep Garrison.

5. Benning said he personally scouted Vey in the AHL, so far he doesn't look too promising and the Canucks paid basically full price to acquire him.

6. Dorsett for a 3rd I can live with. I liked the deal at that time.

7. I'm fine with the Clendening deal, Forsling might not even be a successful AHL player and Clendening had great AHL numbers for a young dman before this year.

8. I liked the Baerstchi move, I just think of it as drafting a player like him with the late 2nd rounder and to me that's a good move.

9. Overpaid for Dorsett(who I like). Both with term and cap hit.

10. Sbisa contract.......I'm not allowed to post what i really think of it without getting banned. Ugh...just ugh.

11. Love the Tanev deal.
- Nucker101

Steaming pile of dogshit is what it is
Edit: I was okay with Sbisa coming back next year - he's young, athletic, big - but only for like 2-2.2 mil...

I agree with all of this, and my original statement with Tanev and Dorsett getting generous contracts isn't a criticism as I believe those players deserve those deals, I am stating that the deals are not something to hang your hat on as an achievement though. Had he signed Tavev to a 3.5 contract I would be busting out the champagne, he signed him to a fair contract and I love the player.
- belcherbd

That's fair. Signed Tanev perhaps a bit above market value. Dorsett above market value but with some comparables that you can look at to rationalize the move (Prust)

Miller was widely reported as only being interested in teams that were on the west coast. He had a pretty pedestrian season going in FA and still ended up getting 6th highest salary in the league for goal-tending.

I'm not sure if other managers could of done better than Benning on Kesler, but I do know that St. Louis put Stevie Y in as tough as a situation and Tampa made out pretty good. 1st in both 2014 and 2015 as well as Callahan and a 7th for Marty and a 2nd.

Benning did need to move some bodies and salary, so he could afford Miller at 6 million per. Garrison was the choice which hindsight shows wasn't great, I'm not criticizing that as much as what he received for him. How is a 2nd pick worth a top 4 D when you spend a 2nd on a prospect like Vey?

These are obviously just my opinions but this is why I am not ready to anoint Benning as the savior yet.
- belcherbd

Not a fair comparison though as I'm pretty sure Marty was coming off an Art Ross season. Kesler had one great season and a few good ones. St.Louis has been a consistent point producer for years, I think thats why the return was what it was

Not moving Vrbata would be a mistake. He has one year left and will not be playing with the twins this year, so doubtfully scores 31 again.

We could grab a nice piece coming back like Pouliot or a young player coming back that would be excellent.
- VANTEL

If we could get pouliot for vrbata you make that trade.

Then ship Edler out for Sean couturier

Not a fair comparison though as I'm pretty sure Marty was coming off an Art Ross season. Kesler had one great season and a few good ones. St.Louis has been a consistent point producer for years, I think thats why the return was what it was
- WhiteLie

I'm not suggesting that Kesler should of received 2 1st and an impact younger player, but there is a wide gap between the two returns. St Louis is a future hall of famer and a superstar no doubt but he is also 9 years older. Marty made it clear he only wanted to go to NYR but that didn't manage to handicap the trade.

If we could get pouliot for vrbata you make that trade.

Then ship Edler out for Sean couturier
- The_Kuze

I like your optimism
Although TBH I think we have two Couturier type players in Horvat and McCann and would be better off going after moar D prospect or picks for Edler