im still a believer in our core. that being said, if were going to compare it to tampas, its not easy to make an argument for theirs, from top to bottom.

the pens have the one cup to the resume, and that is huge. its no guarantee tampas ever gets that. so in looking at overall legacy, the pens have a tremendous headstart. but if the question is erasing everything up until now and simply moving forward, the bolts have time and numbers on their side in a head to head comparison of assets.
- stayinthefnnet

My whole premise has been moving forward. The Cup was ancient history. I'm not looking into the past. Since we won that, what has happened? We have regressed ... significantly due to bad decisions all around from contracts, trades, drafting, development.

Forgot Hedman, I agree about him. Drouin and Pouliot are a wash.

And yes it matters if they are draft picks? Where do you think they got them? Free agents? No they are home grown cheap young talent. Something we're missing. And no, Kap and Sundqvist aren't the saviors us homers think. There's a chance, but they could also be Bennetts.
- znagle

Drouin has proved a bit more in the NHL than DP, would you not agree? It very well could be a wash, but one seems light years ahead of the other.

There is nothing wrong with home grown talent that they selected and developed. That only strengthens my position because they didn't make foolish deals for rentals; used their picks wisely and developed them. Whereas, Pittsburgh has not.

My whole premise has been moving forward. The Cup was ancient history. I'm not looking into the past. Since we won that, what has happened? We have regressed ... significantly due to bad decisions all around from contracts, trades, drafting, development.
- Oneonta Penguin

100 percent agree.

im just looking at it from two different angles when evaluating pens core vs tb core.

fact is, no cups are guaranteed and the pens at least have one. TBs may never reach that. but, moving forward, the lightning's odds have to be considered better.

the pens are sinking, for the reasons youve listed. and the lightning have one of the best piles of assets in the league.

DKs insider said the pens are eyeing buyouts (but didnt name names)
- YouMeAndDupuis9

As in buying out a couple of your own guys or going after guys that other teams will buy out?

100 percent agree.

im just looking at it from two different angles when evaluating pens core vs tb core.

fact is, no cups are guaranteed and the pens at least have one. TBs may never reach that. but, moving forward, the lightning's odds have to be considered better.

the pens are sinking, for the reasons youve listed. and the lightning have one of the best piles of assets in the league.
- stayinthefnnet

That is why I have said I would take TB's roster over our's without question moving forward and there is at least one guy thinking I'm totally nuts.

Drouin has proved a bit more in the NHL than DP, would you not agree? It very well could be a wash, but one seems light years ahead of the other.

There is nothing wrong with home grown talent that they selected and developed. That only strengthens my position because they didn't make foolish deals for rentals; used their picks wisely and developed them. Whereas, Pittsburgh has not.
- Oneonta Penguin

Drouin has hardly been the rookie phenom he was touted to be. Gonna be a great player but he was supposedly the runaway Cader favorite and isn't even close to being in the conversation now.

Drouin has proved a bit more in the NHL than DP, would you not agree? It very well could be a wash, but one seems light years ahead of the other.

There is nothing wrong with home grown talent that they selected and developed. That only strengthens my position because they didn't make foolish deals for rentals; used their picks wisely and developed them. Whereas, Pittsburgh has not.
- Oneonta Penguin

So do you propose trading one of the core? This is where I'm at. If not, we will be in the same position yearly. Trading aspects for decent players and expecting 87 and 71 to carry the team. Gee, where have we heard this.. The last 5 years? Not saying trade 71 for picks, but young players who are actually good. Maybe sprinkle in a pick, but young cheap guys who can contribute are what's needed. 3 top 6 players have a better chance to score than 1 top player.

That is why I have said I would take TB's roster over our's without question moving forward and there is at least one guy thinking I'm totally nuts.
- Oneonta Penguin

i didnt backread that thoroughly so i cant speak for anyone else.

and obviously its assuming stamkos is resigned. it becomes void if he does bolt.

but having stamkos, headman, and either bishop or their russian prospect, who looked phenomenal, gives them the 1C, 1D, and 1G.

the main difference is the bevy of young talented guys up front, that the pens essentially have no answer to. tyler johnson, kucherov, palat, drouin.

i know i keep saying this, and i know its sort of pointless, because the pens dont have the asset capital to acquire a young guy like that. but one or two of them would make an absolute WORLD of difference.

Define core players. Give me the core players for each team please.

I see three or four for Pittsburgh ... I see 10-12 in Tampa.
- Oneonta Penguin

I would say the Pens core players are Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury, Maatta

I would say the Bolts core players are Stammer, Palat, Kucherov, Johnson, Hedman

Come on dude...

$5 mill per isn't the running rate for a #1 D-Man so no he isn't being paid like one.

I don't like him simply because he turns incompetent, looks intimidated, and plays timid come April and May. That's my issue with him.
- 87_71_11_29

Look it up he is the 28th highest paid defenseman this year. To me that constitutes being paid as a #1.

No I aint OK with that. I'm the #1 Paul Mart Mall Cop basher on this board. I believe he is completely overrated. I posted on RW's previous blog about 7 giving up yet another playoff goal and looking bad in the process.

But, at the end of the day, we lost 2-1. Past few years, D hasn't been the issue. Goal scoring has been this teams undoing.

87 and 71 get paid to produce goals.

They aren't doing their job. P Mart is doing his job way better than either of those 2.
- 87_71_11_29

I think D is the issue. The transition from D to O is nonexistent. The D gets the puck and blindly wraps it around the boards every time.

He brought up specifically the Goc/Lappy deal. That is what I attacked. He makes it think Goc would make a significant difference here. Goc was an decent fourth line guy with some degree of impact. We are in the same predicament we are in with him on this roster as we are Lappy. With the way people think, we are the fourth seed if that trade is never made. That is a joke.
- Oneonta Penguin

No, I didn't bring up specifically the Goc/Lap deal, I brought up the Scuderi contract, Sutter contract, Spaling contract, Lap/Goc deal. It all adds up, it's not about one single trade, it's about the sum of the parts and each contract/trade is a part that added up to one poopty sum.

I doubt it because we would have traded away all the picks for rentals. The 2015 draft, one of the deepest drafts in recent history and we have a second and seventh rounder. Par for the course.

Fact is, they are younger, more balanced, and more talented. They have developed and surrounded Stamkos with young talent. Those facts can't be debated. We haven't done that. Have three competent top six forwards and a questionable backend. Take Martin and Ehrhoff out of the defense next year ... our defense has major questions.
- Oneonta Penguin

Like i said before, they are younger, more balanced, and more talented because they are at a different phase of their roster construction. The Pens were at the equivalent to this phase around 2007-2008 and they got a cup and a finals appearance. We'll see in the next few years if TB measures up to that.

We really don't need rangers fans coming in here arguing the rangers deserved their 5 power plays and pens deserved their 1. The pens earned most of their penalties but got screwed on drawing any... Interference was rampant and the league should actually do something about it.... But they wont... Its playoff hockey... They change the rule book throughout the game.

Hockey players have different levels of play.

Playoff time is when you up your game, give a little more effort, hit a little harder, skate a little faster, and give your A game.

Players tend to play differently during the regular season.

Except one, Sidney Crosby.

Sid is a crazy, superstitious, perfectionist. He plays every regular season game at a higher level than anyone else; which is Sid's max and best effort; Sid does not have another level because he has maxed out his ability. That ability is still better than anyone else, but when all of these other players up their games for the playoffs, Sid looks like he doesn't. When in fact his game is always at the top of his ability. Sid will never dominate in the playoffs like he does in the regular season, end of story.

This doesn't mean Sid cant catch fire, because he can.

We will win this series

F mystery meat on a stick in times square

Hey Pens Fans answer me this. What happens to a team that plays pretty much most of the period in their own end? A team that can't keep up with the pace the other team is playing at? A team who is playing a bunch of rookie defensemen who are defending against one of the highest scoring teams 5 on 5 in the league? Hmmm......is it THAT hard to imagine that they will be taking a lot of penalties because they are out of position? Because they are being outplayed? Because they are taking liberties to catch the puck and try to clear it?

The most ridiculous thing I hear people say (fans of all teams) is "Call it even". If you called the game even, there is no point in calling anything. If you called it even, there is no fear of committing illegal plays because a player would know that it would be called even. If the game is being called even, then it is being played even. That was hardly the case in the 1st period when the Rangers pretty much dominated the Pens for 20 minutes. Guess what? When that happens, you get called for penalties. Do you honestly think that a team that has the puck in the offensive zone is gonna get called for just as many offensive zone penalties as the team with out the puck defending??? Seriously???

Not to mention, the Pens were the most penalized club in the regular season. Not noticing a trend????

You wanna blame something? Blame your team's injuries, thats fine. Blame your team's inability to play the game at the Rangers pace. Blame the bonehead you call Downie. Blame Perron's complete ineffectiveness. Blame game 1 nerves. But don't blame the refs who called the game as it was played. Yes I watched the game on MSG, but they usually call the game pretty fair. They ALWAYS say when the Rangers get away with a non call, and they pretty much call out bad hockey when its happening. The Pens undisciplined play was noted in the 1st period, they were called dumb a number of times because the penalties they took were simply that, dumb and unnecessary.
- xcheckmajor

Im with you on all of this, except the call on Comeau where you guys had the goal. That should have either been a non call, or called both of them since Moore was holding his stick. And in the 3rd we had players getting tackled without calls.

So while i wont blame the reffing for us losing, it sure didnt help to have it be a bit lopsided. But this is the NHl and it comes as no surprise anymore.

Whether it's right or wrong, reputation plays a factor in how the refs call a game and for a team with guys like Downie and Lapierre along with this notion that Malkin and Crosby are sneaky dirty, you won't get a lot of slack. The Rangers are disciplined and have a reputation for playing clean.
- rangerdanger94

Youre pulling that poop out of your ass.

As in buying out a couple of your own guys or going after guys that other teams will buy out?
- rangerdanger94

Buying out some of our own guys. Stressed he didnt have any names and no names were given but insinuated Kunitz...and logically, I would think Scuderi could be added to that list.

No problem with buying them out, but I hope we at least look to see if someone would give us a draft pick first.

Hockey players have different levels of play.

Playoff time is when you up your game, give a little more effort, hit a little harder, skate a little faster, and give your A game.

Players tend to play differently during the regular season.

Except one, Sidney Crosby.

Sid is a crazy, superstitious, perfectionist. He plays every regular season game at a higher level than anyone else; which is Sid's max and best effort; Sid does not have another level because he has maxed out his ability. That ability is still better than anyone else, but when all of these other players up their games for the playoffs, Sid looks like he doesn't. When in fact his game is always at the top of his ability. Sid will never dominate in the playoffs like he does in the regular season, end of story.

This doesn't mean Sid cant catch fire, because he can.

We will win this series

F mystery meat on a stick in times square
- nbartley9

Mmmm, mystery meat...

Mmmm, mystery meat...
- SMSB

Don't do it, that poop will have you crawling around the floor like dude from Wolf of Wall Street while poopting everywhere.

Youre pulling that poop out of your ass.
- thickman1178

I don't think Crosby or Malkin are dirty players. They have high compete levels, especially in the playoffs. Do they do the little ticky-tacky stuff, like giving a guy an extra shove or going down a little easier to sell a call. Sure. But almost every player is doing that on every team in the playoffs.

Downie, Lapierre and Kunitz though - those guys I worry about going over the line...

Honestly I have no faith in this team. If they are down a goal in the third period they aren't coming back. If they are up three goals they are going to choke it away.

I just find that this team does not have the ability to play the desperate, hard hockey that the playoffs require...and haven't for a few years.

Buying out some of our own guys. Stressed he didnt have any names and no names were given but insinuated Kunitz...and logically, I would think Scuderi could be added to that list.

No problem with buying them out, but I hope we at least look to see if someone would give us a draft pick first.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Does Kuni have any NMC? Perhaps he would like to go to Peg to finish out his career. I believe he is from that provence.

2 top 6 F's, a 3C, entire bottom 6 line and a mid level Dman are all needed next year. Guess where those replacements wont come from?

Don't do it, that poop will have you crawling around the floor like dude from Wolf of Wall Street while poopting everywhere.
- j.boyd919

Your words make sense to my brain but my stomach is telling you to shut up!

Dude, the rules aren't different in the 3rd. The rules are different when 1 team is dominating than when play is even up back and forth. When the game is being played well and its going back and forth, the refs tend to let them play. When a team is dominating, the other team will get called for any small thing they do that looks bad to stop them.
- xcheckmajor

The rules are absolutely different in the 3rd. If you dont know refs manage to the score, then you dont watch hockey.