I realize they're a good team. I think they'll probably come out of the east. I just really don't care to discuss them on our board. God forbid our blogger write a positive Pens blog about this series. That fanbase getting all butt hurt over RW's blog is comical.
- madmike71

I don't think its lost on any of us that the Rangers are good. It really is just annoying to hear how good they are on a Penguins board, from the same 5 idiots.

If anything its the fans themselves that are annoying as (frank). Heck I actually like the way they finally put a good team on the ice without buying it ala 1994. Big, fast solid D and excessive hair product in net.

Doesn't mean I want to hear which Ranger is sniffing Rick Nash's jock on an off day.

Your PP was fire at the beginning of the season. Is Letang not a good QB?
- rangerdanger94

no, he isnt.

and im not one of the people that really want to move on from him either.

its just not one of his strengths, at all. i think letang may be the most physically gifted defender in the whole league. dont care how homerish that sounds, i really think hes up there. but mentally, he still really lacks. and on the PP, thats more important.

he doesnt have great vision as far as actually distributing, and for as much velocity that he can get on his shot, its often high and wide. on the PP, your main job would be to actually hit the net, even if you have to take a few MPHs off of it. let guys get the rebounds, or at the very least, set up another offensive draw.

letang's best offensive qualities show themselves in open ice situations, in my opinion. he is one of the best at creating plays for himself and others off of the rush. set plays from the half-rink offense, not so much.

Has anyone stopped to consider the problem with advanced metrics is NOT that the numbers are wrong, it's that everyone is interpreting them incorrectly? Maybe puck possession simply does NOT mean success?!? Brian Boyle's line when Torts led the Rangers would dominate possession. They cycled and cycled and grinded and cycled some more....but guess what? They never did anything with the puck. Then you have guys like Kreider and Gaborik. They get the puck and in 3 seconds, they are down the ice and scoring. Maybe how fast a team plays and makes decisions and executes is MORE important than how long they hold the puck? Maybe 10 seconds of fast skating fast passing and good shooting is worth more to the outcome than 45 seconds of useless cycling that never leads to a great chance? Maybe superior defense and goaltending, one of the Rangers trademarks, can simply negate a good possession team? And fast transition and arguably the fastest paced team in the league can lead to a lot of goals scored with less possession time???? So maybe we need to rethink how we come to conclusions with the advanced stats all together because the Rangers clearly destroyed the possession wins games idea.

If both teams were fully healthy, I doubt they would be playing each other in the 1st round to be honest.
- Thorny

This is true

Has anyone stopped to consider the problem with advanced metrics is NOT that the numbers are wrong, it's that everyone is interpreting them incorrectly? Maybe puck possession simply does NOT mean success?!? Brian Boyle's line when Torts led the Rangers would dominate possession. They cycled and cycled and grinded and cycled some more....but guess what? They never did anything with the puck. Then you have guys like Kreider and Gaborik. They get the puck and in 3 seconds, they are down the ice and scoring. Maybe how fast a team plays and makes decisions and executes is MORE important than how long they hold the puck? Maybe 10 seconds of fast skating fast passing and good shooting is worth more to the outcome than 45 seconds of useless cycling that never leads to a great chance? Maybe superior defense and goaltending, one of the Rangers trademarks, can simply negate a good possession team? And fast transition and arguably the fastest paced team in the league can lead to a lot of goals scored with less possession time???? So maybe we need to rethink how we come to conclusions with the advanced stats all together because the Rangers clearly destroyed the possession wins games idea.
- xcheckmajor

yeah, theyre not the be all end all. they are good tools, and provide good snapshots, but they need to be viewed in context.

a team can be outshot, but still be doing well. if you are able to force a lot of shots from the perimeter and then harmlessly force them to the outside again, that can hurt your shots against total. similarly, if you dont get off a ton of shots, but the ones you do are in prime scoring opportunities, which likely outcome would you choose?

letangs hair > hanks hair
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Them's fightin words

yeah, theyre not the be all end all. they are good tools, and provide good snapshots, but they need to be viewed in context.

a team can be outshot, but still be doing well. if you are able to force a lot of shots from the perimeter and then harmlessly force them to the outside again, that can hurt your shots against total. similarly, if you dont get off a ton of shots, but the ones you do are in prime scoring opportunities, which likely outcome would you choose?
- stayinthefnnet

I agree, so the question is, what is the correlation of these stats to actual success? Or is success just assumed?

I agree, so the question is, what is the correlation of these stats to actual success? Or is success just assumed?
- xcheckmajor

to me, its just hard to view correlation without the context of actually watching the games.

if you have a team that is heavily getting outshot, or outpossessed, it does make some rational sense to conclude that you have a higher likelihood of scoring more than the opposition, as its hard to score without 1. having the puck and 2. getting it on net.

but again, its something that requires more analysis for me. same with PDO.

a combination of save percentage and shooting percentage, while it can indicate for a respective team that their luck may be in a funk or on a hot streak, its hard for me to buy into it too much when suggesting that all teams should fluctuate around a certain number.

things such as having a stud goaltender, a defense that forces a lot of harmless outside opportunities, and other variables come into play for me as well.

theyre just tools and provide a snapshot, but none of them are 100 percent dispositive of some greater picture, other than telling you what exactly it is they are designed to. nothing more, nothing less, without the requisite context.

And Crosby didn't go to the refs freaking out that there was no call. And the NHL didn't suspend him. And the media who is so anti-anything-overphysical never mentioned it. And none of the Penguins targeted Staal as retaliation. And no people of other fan bases came storming in in disgust (like everyone did with the Byfuglien on Miller crosscheck) so maybe you guys overreacted and are still overreacting?
- rangerdanger94

What I saw of both incidents Buff was worse but only once where as Staal repeatedly cross checked to the neck. Now if Sid had of said anything you would be the first big mouth saying that Sid was crying, whinging, whining etc etc etc. we get it EVERYTHING the Rags do is ok & no one can say anything about it without you saying we are crying, whinging, whining etc etc etc. we also get that as soon as there is something against your guys you go apepoop on your blog about suspensions & fines etc etc etc.

Making excuses even makes you more hypercritical - if he didn't bend over it would have hit the numbers - mate it him where it hit him, being back of the neck. We will continue to bring that up because it was garbage. The same as everyone brings up Downies past offences where this year he has been great at times & hasn't taken anyone's head off - yet? Complain about Downie we complain about arseholes that play dirty & cheap shot - Staal!

Now just (frank) off!

Edit: You can come back when we beat you.

PDO is effectively a zero-sum game. PDO displays an inverse relationship between SH% and SV% as a team attempts to score goals by throwing pucks to the opponent’s net. By example, a team’s SH% increases at the expense of the opponents SV% and vice-versa. PDO regresses to 100 over the course of a season, and there hasn’t been a team that sustained either a SH% or SV% significantly different than league average. PDO can be used to gauge team luck over the short-term (i.e. high SH% and high SV%) or conversely, as a barometer of bad luck (i.e. low SH% and low SV%).

Possession. Some love it – most hate it. The thing with proxy measures of possession is that they intuitively make sense. The summation of attempted shots-for correlates to time in the offensive zone (and hence, less time spent defending). Further intuition tells us that teams who have the puck more often are able to score with more frequency, and prevent goals against. This should lead to a higher frequency of winning over the long-term.

Nikota (link below) demonstrated interesting results by using a stopwatch to calculate the time a team spends in the offensive zone (attack time) is nearly identical to their Fenwick numbers. I understand the aforementioned is subject to measurement bias/ error, BUT until the NHL decides to utilize sensor and tracking technologies, the holy grail of ‘advanced’ analytics is a step away. It’s time for the NHL to modernize!

In the past five seasons, four times the eventual Stanley Cup champion has been great at two things: possessing the puck and suppressing shot attempts by the opponent. It suffices to say that the winner of the series will be determined by which team achieves a positive shot differential.


http://www.pensionplanpup...-time-at-the-halfway-mark

I don't think its lost on any of us that the Rangers are good. It really is just annoying to hear how good they are on a Penguins board, from the same 5 idiots.

If anything its the fans themselves that are annoying as (frank). Heck I actually like the way they finally put a good team on the ice without buying it ala 1994. Big, fast solid D and excessive hair product in net.

Doesn't mean I want to hear which Ranger is sniffing Rick Nash's jock on an off day.
- Sell My Monkey

buying it?

so the Penguins drafted and developed Kevin Stevens, Ron Francis, Ulf Samuelsson, Larry Murphy, Joe Mullen, Rick Tocchet, Bryan Trottier, Tom Barrasso & Paul Coffey when they built their 91 and 92 Cup teams?

Wow, NHL history changes on a daily basis

PDO is effectively a zero-sum game. PDO displays an inverse relationship between SH% and SV% as a team attempts to score goals by throwing pucks to the opponent’s net. By example, a team’s SH% increases at the expense of the opponents SV% and vice-versa. PDO regresses to 100 over the course of a season, and there hasn’t been a team that sustained either a SH% or SV% significantly different than league average. PDO can be used to gauge team luck over the short-term (i.e. high SH% and high SV%) or conversely, as a barometer of bad luck (i.e. low SH% and low SV%).

Possession. Some love it – most hate it. The thing with proxy measures of possession is that they intuitively make sense. The summation of attempted shots-for correlates to time in the offensive zone (and hence, less time spent defending). Further intuition tells us that teams who have the puck more often are able to score with more frequency, and prevent goals against. This should lead to a higher frequency of winning over the long-term.

Nikota (link below) demonstrated interesting results by using a stopwatch to calculate the time a team spends in the offensive zone (attack time) is nearly identical to their Fenwick numbers. I understand the aforementioned is subject to measurement bias/ error, BUT until the NHL decides to utilize sensor and tracking technologies, the holy grail of ‘advanced’ analytics is a step away. It’s time for the NHL to modernize!

In the past five seasons, four times the eventual Stanley Cup champion has been great at two things: possessing the puck and suppressing shot attempts by the opponent. It suffices to say that the winner of the series will be determined by which team achieves a positive shot differential.


http://www.pensionplanpup...-time-at-the-halfway-mark
- out_of_market

The thing that no stat can measure is if a puck will go in the net or when it will not go in the net.

Throw pucks at the net all game & end up with a duck egg or throw a single shot & score! No one can measure or predict that no matter what you have - it's the unknown. How many teams out shoot the other & lose? How many times you see a team dominate possession but end up behind after the first goal is scored by the opposition - Pens have had a huge amount of that lately. If you want to call that luck then do but don't call it PDO if your goalie gets scored on in the first 2 or 3 shots after you shoot 15. Call that good goal tending by the opposition & bad D or goal tending by your team.

In saying that, goalies 'may' have weaknesses - isles threw 2 shots over Flowers left shoulder the other day - same shot same result GOAL. Now when we start to see stats guys give us credible information along with the stats ie players strengths & weaknesses, you will see a much larger data base of information that can correlate more with how a game WILL play out more than just match stats up to games already played.

You will still have the unknowns but more of an idea of what might be the better option - ie throw shots over Flowers left shoulder before anything else.

I believe the Rangers series will have little to do with possession numbers & more with D & goal tending. We will throw 25-35 shots to their 15-20 & it's possible to be behind 0-3. Possession means little if the goal tending is good/great. That is a part of the Rags that has been very good even without the King. Pens need to score & once they do try to score again if they don't just shut the game down & win games 1-0 if possible. He'll just put the caravan in front & stand the tent up & let them shoot all game at that.

Has anyone stopped to consider the problem with advanced metrics is NOT that the numbers are wrong, it's that everyone is interpreting them incorrectly? Maybe puck possession simply does NOT mean success?!? Brian Boyle's line when Torts led the Rangers would dominate possession. They cycled and cycled and grinded and cycled some more....but guess what? They never did anything with the puck. Then you have guys like Kreider and Gaborik. They get the puck and in 3 seconds, they are down the ice and scoring. Maybe how fast a team plays and makes decisions and executes is MORE important than how long they hold the puck? Maybe 10 seconds of fast skating fast passing and good shooting is worth more to the outcome than 45 seconds of useless cycling that never leads to a great chance? Maybe superior defense and goaltending, one of the Rangers trademarks, can simply negate a good possession team? And fast transition and arguably the fastest paced team in the league can lead to a lot of goals scored with less possession time???? So maybe we need to rethink how we come to conclusions with the advanced stats all together because the Rangers clearly destroyed the possession wins games idea.
- xcheckmajor

I've been saying advanced stats are skewed for multiple reasons in any sport, especially hockey. The one thing a computer can not compute is intangibles, something which is much needed for a long cup run.

So you're trying to sway me on some conspiracy that 30 officials got together and the mood of the day was not call one spear. Please say yes.
- blacksheep1

Absolutely. Total conspiracy. Its not just that (as I said) it happens 50 times a game, just like cross checking and slashing, and goes uncalled except for the most blatant instances.

I only ask, because if Downie goes Downie for whatever reason, I don't want to hear any female doging about it...thats all. Like I said, i don't have an issue with it, the players are going to push things as far as the refs are going to let them.

The only time I see it brought up in these blogs, is when you Ranger fans come in here...honestly, I read these boards every day and that is the only time I ever see it. No one just randomly says hey...remember that time when Staal cross checked Sid in the back of a the head a few times...that was pretty cool huh.
- Thorny

Ive seen people complain about it every time we play the Rangers. Hell, I still complain about it because it was one of the most ridiculous non calls I have ever seen. Again, its on the refs to make those calls and not let them go. The players will keep pushing the envelops as much as they can, and rightfully so.

Overall, our PP suffers from passing around the perimeter too much and being too predictable. Just not a lot of movement. It seems like they're always looking for the backdoor tap in and they pass it from D to D 3 or 4 times and then from the point to the dot 3 or 4 times looking for a backdoor lane to open up before they either lose the puck or pass it out of the zone by mistake.
- rangerdanger94

Sounds similar to our PP except we are always looking for the one timers from Geno. I think a lack of movement in any PP is the death of it. How are you going to g et guys out of position if you aren't moving yourself?

No Letang is a huge hole on your PP. he's as good a QB as there is in this league.
- rangerdanger94

I think our PP was better with Martin as the QB and Tanger setting up on one side for the one time with Geno on the other. Now that hes is/was our PP QB, Letang doesn't shoot enough. Defers to the pass 90% of the time.

They want their respect cause they're finally a favourite in over 20 years... I agree...who cares... Go read a Rangers blog.... I never read theirs or slip into their comments, unless you're willing to give a bj to their team you'll be ridiculed out the door... Just like most blogs on this god forsaken site. What a pile of crap this place has turned into.
- nelson911

I don't get why everyone is so butt hurt we have Rags fans in here. Its the most important time of the year for poop talking. For me, it gets me going and really makes me want to pound their skulls in. I enjoy a little give and take, so long as it doesn't devolve into utter nonsense and name calling.

PS, Rangers fans are a bunch of poopy brains.

Has anyone stopped to consider the problem with advanced metrics is NOT that the numbers are wrong, it's that everyone is interpreting them incorrectly?
- xcheckmajor

you can stop right there. If you have to ask that question, you don't frequent our forums much.

I don't get why everyone is so butt hurt we have Rags fans in here. Its the most important time of the year for poop talking. For me, it gets me going and really makes me want to pound their skulls in. I enjoy a little give and take, so long as it doesn't devolve into utter nonsense and name calling.

PS, Rangers fans are a bunch of poopy brains.
- thickman1178

perhaps, but we stick around

we don't disappear and then come back only when the league gives us a superstar

perhaps, but we stick around

we don't disappear and then come back only when the league gives us a superstar
- jimbro83

Jimmy always telling it how it is.

Jimmy always telling it how it is.
- adwolf130

the Penguins bought the 91 and 92 Cups, have you heard?

perhaps, but we stick around

we don't disappear and then come back only when the league gives us a superstar
- jimbro83

I'm sure none of you Scum Rags will stick around if you lost this series. You'll disappear like roaches in the sunlight.

I'm sure none of you Scum Rags will stick around if you lost this series. You'll disappear like roaches in the sunlight.
- jfkst1

let me get this straight

you talk all the time about wanting us to stay out of here. Now you are saying you want us to stick around and offer our opinions on your round 2 series if you make it there.

Ok, I promise I will offer insightful opinions in your second round series. I will be here man.

let me get this straight

you talk all the time about wanting us to stay out of here. Now you are saying you want us to stick around and offer our opinions on your round 2 series if you make it there.

Ok, I promise I will offer insightful opinions in your second round series. I will be here man.
- jimbro83

No, I want you to go back to your board. None of you have anything worth offering. But if the Rags lose this series, I'm sure you'll all disappear.