We got beat by a group of AHLers last night, that had more desire to win than we did.

Although some people here believe that Stone and Hoffman are elite top 6 players in this league.... I wish I was joking.
- nbartley9

Not sure if you are attempting to be funny or if you simply aren't aware, but Stone and Hoffman are very good young players.

Have you all noticed that almost every player that Rutherford has brought in so far has been guys with no recent history of playing for winning teams? I think that there's a mindset that comes along with those types & when you add too many of them too quickly, that "loser" mentality starts to bleed into the dressing room instead of hoping that the "winning team" attitude bleeding into the new players. Especially when it's a locker room with a questionable mental fortitude like the Pens.

Nobody wants to talk about the obvious. Crosby played head to head against Turris most of the night. Turris ended the evening +2, Crosby was -1. For the first ten minutes of the game Crosby looked strong. He was not a factor over the rest of the night. Keep it real simple, the Crosby line could not contain Turris and Stone. Same for Giroux and Voracek.
- spatso

Take away Karlsson, Wiercioch, and Ceci and see how many head-to-head matchups your 1st line will win.

I said earlier in the year the Pens don't have the skill or accuracy like a lot of other teams. Missing open nets, nagging easy shots of basically just messing up. Their skill level is shown up when they miss 2 or 3 shots after dominating then the opposing team goes down & slots the first shot they get. Spaling comes to mind immediately, not that I'm bagging him as a player, he just doesn't have the skill set in offence - I actually saw him miss the puck with an open net (he didn't even get a shot he MISSED the puck!). Even Sid with EN's, it was mentioned on the radio that he has missed a poop load of EN???
- Aussiepenguin

They don't do the little things right & I've watched their fundamentals fall apart since Dan's 2nd year here. And HCMJ's ability to make the team pay attention to them has been equally poor.

What's the word for calling someone's accurate comment stupid while making a stupider comment?
- Topshelf Mountain

what exactly is stupid about what I said? the facts are true and are obvious reasons for losing games. sure we blew the lead but with only 5 defenseman which for the most part are bottom pairing defenseman, it's not that difficult for a team to score.

Are you wanting to make a statement on the compete level of the Pens?
- spatso

Sure, we play like a giant tooth filled tumor infested dead hookers vage. But the important thing is our team believes we "deserve" to win.

F Them; all of them, except Downie and MAF

Guys, Scuderi and Lovejoy both played 25 minutes last night. Taylor Chorney was also one of the 5 defensemen after Pouliot got hurt. This is not an issue of effort.

I didn't see one player phoning it in or looking lackadaisical. The desire is there, however, the talent is not. Without Letang and Erhoff in the lineup, it's going to be an uphill battle.

How can you trust Rutherford? He doesn't know anymore than a monkey throwing its feces at a wall.
- jfkst1

I didn't say I trusted Rutherford. He has had his good and bad moments. I can't blame him for the injuries, but I do believe he has done more Good than Bad.

Still, the Bad moments are unforced errors and that is what makes them unexcusable. He could have chosen to simply done nothing & come out better. Those kind of moves just kill a team.

Good
- Sign Ehrhoff
- Sign Comeau
- Re-sign Despres at $900K for 2yrs
- Neal for Hornquvist & Spaling
- Re-sign Fleury
- Bortuzzo for Cole
- Perron for Klinkhammer & 1st
- Samuellson for Klinkhammer

Bad
- Despres for Lovejoy
- Extending Sutter at $3.3M/yr for 2 yrs
- Extending Spaling at $2.2M/yr for 2 yrs
- Goc for Lapierre

Neutral
- Sign Downie
- Sign Greiss
- Re-sign Goc

Not sure if you are attempting to be funny or if you simply aren't aware, but Stone and Hoffman are very good young players.
- MadCap2008

Thanks, yeah so is Brian Gibbons.

Ok it's starting to get hot again in here - won't be long before the 'others' will be in saying silly things. Get the popcorn out - is that what they say?

What sort of cap penalty applies if we bring up Harrington & or Dumo? Can't see it being greater than missing the playoffs??
- Aussiepenguin

You'd be penalized by possibly forfeiting high draft picks for violating the salary cap ceiling or outright forfeiting games.

Edit: Per Section 26.13 of the CBA:

(i) Impose a fine of up to $5 million in the case of a Circumvention by a Club or Club Actor, but in no circumstances shall such fine be less than $1
million against any Club or Club Actor if such party is found to have
violated Article 50 of this Agreement. If such a fine is assessed against a
Club (except in the case of a financial reporting violation), that Club's
Payroll Room shall also be reduced by such amount for the following
League Year, and if such reduction of the Club's Payroll Room renders the
Club out of compliance with the Payroll Range (i.e., the Club does not
have sufficient Payroll Room to accommodate its Player commitments
comprising Club Salary) for such following League Year, then the Club
must take such steps as are necessary (e.g., Assignment, Buy-Out,
Waivers, etc.) and as are permitted by this Agreement to ensure that the
Club will be in compliance with Article 50 of this Agreement upon
commencement of the following League Year;
(ii) Impose a fine against a Player of up to the lesser of $1 million or twentyfive
(25%) percent of a Player's Paragraph 1 Salary in the case of a
Circumvention by a Player or Player Actor, but in no circumstances shall
such fine be below the lesser of $250,000 or twenty-five (25%) percent of
the Player's Paragraph 1 Salary. Notwithstanding the $1 million limitation
set forth above, any additional amounts by which the Player has been
unjustly enriched due to the Circumvention shall be ordered to be
disgorged;
(iii) Direct a Club to forfeit draft picks (the number, placement, and League
Year of which shall be determined in the Commissioner's sole discretion);
(iv) Declare a forfeiture of any NHL Game(s) determined to have been
affected by a Circumvention;
(v) Direct a Club to disclose and report to the Independent Accountants all
information required by this Agreement, including, without limitation, by
the provisions of Article 50;
(vi) Void any SPC, or any extension of an SPC, between any Player and any
Club when both the Player or Player Actor and the Club or Club Actor are
found to have committed such a violation with respect to such SPC or
extension; and
(vii) Suspend any Club employee, Player, or Certified Agent involved in such a
violation for a period of time determined in the sole discretion of the
Commissioner, the System Arbitrator, or the NHLPA, respectively.

Thanks, yeah so is Brian Gibbons.
- nbartley9

Derp.

Was at the game and I don't know if its coaching or what but Hammond was fighting the puck (again), the puck seems to bounce up in the air on many saves and other times lost in his feet, I give him credit for battling, BUT WHY STOP SHOOTING. Keep getting pucks to the net you don't need the fancy play, just put the puck on net from everywhere.

Take away Karlsson, Wiercioch, and Ceci and see how many head-to-head matchups your 1st line will win.
- jfkst1

You miss my point. Regardless the reason, if your number 1 center is a minus on any night you probably loose the game. The Crosby line is getting out scored at even strength. As long as that continues you will lose more games than you win. Obviously, this is even more important in the playoffs when fewer penalties are called and winning is almost always about even strength performance.

You'd be penalized by possibly forfeiting high draft picks for violating the salary cap ceiling or outright forfeiting games.
- jmatchett383

It'd be the second one. If a team violates the Salary Cap, the forfeit the game. A team cannot play with a non-Cap complying NHL roster.

Haha why do you want to disagree with me??


Pebble and The Hoff played like they cared last night, played with fire and desire.


We played like scared children
- nbartley9

I meant agree, I changed it once I re-read it and realized it made zero sense hahaha

I didn't say I trusted Rutherford. He has had his good and bad moments. I can't blame him for the injuries, but I do believe he has done more Good than Bad.

Still, the Bad moments are unforced errors and that is what makes them unexcusable. He could have chosen to simply done nothing & come out better. Those kind of moves just kill a team.

Good
- Sign Ehrhoff
- Sign Comeau
- Re-sign Despres at $900K for 2yrs
- Neal for Hornquvist & Spaling
- Re-sign Fleury
- Bortuzzo for Cole
- Perron for Klinkhammer & 1st
- Samuellson for Klinkhammer

Bad
- Despres for Lovejoy
- Extending Sutter at $3.3M/yr for 2 yrs
- Extending Spaling at $2.2M/yr for 2 yrs
- Goc for Lapierre

Neutral
- Sign Downie
- Sign Greiss
- Re-sign Goc
- s0rcerer1984

I don't blame him for the injuries, but I don't trust him at all and I don't think he has any sort of system. Just randomness. I want a GM that builds the team with a purpose and relies heavily on their assessment system. No more GMs relying on intuition. It leads to too many mistakes.

I'd love to see the Pens play a full 60 minute hockey game. Wouldn't that be great?

Was at the game and I don't know if its coaching or what but Hammond was fighting the puck (again), the puck seems to bounce up in the air on many saves and other times lost in his feet, I give him credit for battling, BUT WHY STOP SHOOTING. Keep getting pucks to the net you don't need the fancy play, just put the puck on net from everywhere.
- Superfan87

Its because we play like we are afraid to make mistakes, and afraid of having any resistance at all.

Last night Jay hit the nail on the head, he said we don't have anyone right now that relishes in high pressure situations. Which we don't, we do not have guys that want on the ice at critical times and that's being afraid. We are afraid and it shows more and more glaringly every single game.

We got beat by a group of AHLers last night, that had more desire to win than we did.

Although some people here believe that Stone and Hoffman are elite top 6 players in this league.... I wish I was joking.
- nbartley9

61 points in his rookie season isn't considered a T6F? Obviously he needs to do it consistently but imo he has all the tools to be a legit threat every time he's on the ice. Did I mention he also leads the entire league in takeaways?

Hoffman still has major holes in his game but once again Murray has found an absolute gem late in the draft with Stone.

Its a great day for hockey?

You'd be penalized by possibly forfeiting high draft picks for violating the salary cap ceiling or outright forfeiting games.
- jmatchett383

So severe? Why did Boston only have cap penalties for exceeding Iggy's cap? I thought it may just be the amount you exceed gets taken off the cap next year, & this time of year doesn't the cap hit basically go down to close to zero with only 2 games left?

Edit: after reading the rule (thanks for that), that's more in place for a team & player deliberately trying to cheat the cap over a season not a team desperate with injuries & only 2 games left. Still rules are rules, although it wasn't the case for Iggy & his bonus.

How can you trust Rutherford? He doesn't know anymore than a monkey throwing its feces at a wall.
- jfkst1

I dont think we should and I don't think we will trade core players....that said, any kind of big changes, I have lost confidence in Rutherford to do that job.

Guys, Scuderi and Lovejoy both played 25 minutes last night. Taylor Chorney was also one of the 5 defensemen after Pouliot got hurt. This is not an issue of effort.

I didn't see one player phoning it in or looking lackadaisical. The desire is there, however, the talent is not. Without Letang and Erhoff in the lineup, it's going to be an uphill battle.
- Stillson14

I would say geno falls into the lackadaisical theme, he showed 0 effort and heart last night, though I am thinking hes still battling through injuries

It'd be the second one. If a team violates the Salary Cap, the forfeit the game. A team cannot play with a non-Cap complying NHL roster.
- s0rcerer1984

I just updated it. Section 26.14 defines circumvention in example a as "Club has a Club Salary that would exceed the Upper Limit, other than through the Bona-Fide Long-Term Injury/Illness Exception or the "Performance Bonus Cushion," such as by virtue of an undisclosed agreement or undisclosed payment to Players on its roster."

That fits. There are 7 possible defined penalties, and only one of them (iv) would have this effect: "Declare a forfeiture of any NHL Game(s) determined to have been
affected by a Circumvention;" But yes, this is probably what would happen.