Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
- Emperor Filonius

What if it's in military time?

People complain about coach MJ not having enough balls to do something.

But what about management? Where is the courage to put players on waivers who suck and are dragging the team down? Where are the deals to dump these bad contracts, eat some money and try to improve the bottom six. All we ever seem to do is trade away our future for less than adequate players.

And there is no guarantee Dupuis will be back, honestly. I swear if I see Sutter in a Pens uniform next year I won't go to see a game I will just throw up on my TV.

Probably because that is what everyone is witnessing with Kunitz this year.
- jfkst1

And even after a "decline" he's still better than any guys in the bottom 6.

I swear if I see Sutter in a Pens uniform next year I won't go to see a game I will just throw up on my TV.
- powerhouse

I might have to be committed if I have to see Sutter playing for the Penguins next season.

And even after a "decline" he's still better than any guys in the bottom 6.
- drummer829

I personally would keep him. I'm just assuming that is why so many are setting low expectations for him. It's not easy keeping up production as a top 6 forward at 35+.

The 2013 team was very average defensively. Also, much of the forward depth was wasted with Bylsma's awful lineup decisions.
- jfkst1

My point is that the discipline and structure is at the very least no better than it was; the culture is the same. The continued faith in the core players who were re-signed after that season after so much prior failure is rather alarming.

The law of diminishing returns was the best case scenario. Now we're seeing what I would describe as a 'hysteresis'. It's the phenomenon that implies that a decrease in performance is determined not only by the current but also the past. A shadow is cast forward on the future success of the team (and not in a good way) and a loop is formed; the Penguins are in a circuit.

Well I just don't agree with that assessment. Hopefully you're wrong and I'm right. I guess time will tell.
- Victoro311

Time has reflected well on my prior assessments. I'll bet on me.

People complain about coach MJ not having enough balls to do something.

But what about management? Where is the courage to put players on waivers who suck and are dragging the team down? Where are the deals to dump these bad contracts, eat some money and try to improve the bottom six. All we ever seem to do is trade away our future for less than adequate players.

And there is no guarantee Dupuis will be back, honestly. I swear if I see Sutter in a Pens uniform next year I won't go to see a game I will just throw up on my TV.
- powerhouse

When I took my dad to his first ever hockey game, he said, "who is number 16? He can really skate. "

We've been on bad terms ever since.

He won't be any better than Spaling and we're always saying how overpriced Spaling is. Why should there be a spot on the team for a more expensive Spaling?
- Johnny Wrath

I'm pretty sure dupuis could take the next 3 years off, come back and still be better than spaling.

When I took my dad to his first ever hockey game, he said, "who is number 16? He can really skate. "

We've been on bad terms ever since.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I'm pretty sure dupuis could take the next 3 years off, come back and still be better than spaling.
- drummer829

Sad but true. I'm really hoping they unload him and Sutter at the draft. I wonder if someone will pay a 2nd for Sutter?

I'm pretty sure dupuis could take the next 3 years off, come back and still be better than spaling.
- drummer829

Spaling is a good hockey player. I would insist that the Penguins don't do much that play to his strengths (cycle and crash the net) but then again, they don't seem to do much to play to anyone's strengths. They can't even get 87 his 100 points anymore.

Sad but true. I'm really hoping they unload him and Sutter at the draft. I wonder if someone will pay a 2nd for Sutter?
- madmike71

I'd love to see a team like Edmonton give us a 2nd for Sutter. An early 2nd round pick would be great for us.

Spaling is a good hockey player. I would insist that the Penguins don't do much that play to his strengths (cycle and crash the net) but then again, they don't seem to do much to play to anyone's strengths. They can't even get 87 his 100 points anymore.
- Johnny Wrath

I just want to see a cycle down low that feeds a wide open D-man for a bomb...where did you go effective cycle?

I think Frolik and berg are very realistic. Give sundqvist good line mates and he will be able to hold his own on the 3rd line
- drummer829

Yeah if Sund can take the 3C role great then a 4th of:

Comeau-Winnik-Downie/Plug/Spaling

Yeah if Sund can take the 3C role great then a 4th of:

Comeau-Winnik-Downie/Plug/Spaling
- sammy87

I know it's going to piss some people off around here, but I don't want Downie back. Just like I said when they signed him... He's a penalty waiting to happen.....fair or unfair. The refs despise him. The last thing this team needs is an automatic penalty.

I know it's going to piss some people off around here, but I don't want Downie back. Just like I said when they signed him... He's a penalty waiting to happen.....fair or unfair. The refs despise him. The last thing this team needs is an automatic penalty.
- madmike71

Yeah I disagree, but I'm capable of keeping it civil. Downie gives this team life and energy and is one of the few players that doesn't quit when the team goes anemic. Besides that, he's cheap and is actually competent offensively. He's like a better version (and I'd even go to say less dirty) version of Matt Cooke. Solid blend of skill and grit which the team needs more of. I think if you limit his minutes to bottom 6 minutes, he is more of a net good than a net bad.

Yeah I disagree, but I'm capable of keeping it civil. Downie gives this team life and energy and is one of the few players that doesn't quit when the team goes anemic. Besides that, he's cheap and is actually competent offensively. He's like a better version (and I'd even go to say less dirty) version of Matt Cooke. Solid blend of skill and grit which the team needs more of. I think if you limit his minutes to bottom 6 minutes, he is more of a net good than a net bad.
- Victoro311

Yup. I know there's plenty of fans that agree with you. For me, I don't see the life and energy. Make no mistake, I'd rather have him over some others currently on the roster, but the team as a whole needs better focus and discipline. I can't get past the multitude of dumb, selfish penalties. Even more, I hate the penalties he gets simply because the name on his jersey. It's a good thing the Pens have been great at PK or I think I'd have a lot more company.

Yeah I disagree, but I'm capable of keeping it civil. Downie gives this team life and energy and is one of the few players that doesn't quit when the team goes anemic. Besides that, he's cheap and is actually competent offensively. He's like a better version (and I'd even go to say less dirty) version of Matt Cooke. Solid blend of skill and grit which the team needs more of. I think if you limit his minutes to bottom 6 minutes, he is more of a net good than a net bad.
- Victoro311

I'd take Cooke over Downie any day.

I don't trust ANY management to make that big landmark of a trade
- Guile

you have a point there, that's a hell of a risk to take moving a player like that.

I'd take Cooke over Downie any day.
- acdc1206

I was fed up with Cooke's dirty hits, but yeah, much better player IMO. Great PK'r.

Yup. I know there's plenty of fans that agree with you. For me, I don't see the life and energy. Make no mistake, I'd rather have him over some others currently on the roster, but the team as a whole needs better focus and discipline. I can't get past the multitude of dumb, selfish penalties. Even more, I hate the penalties he gets simply because the name on his jersey. It's a good thing the Pens have been great at PK or I think I'd have a lot more company.
- madmike71

What like 4 all year? One that actually might have affected the outcome of the game. Should have had a spot of Crosby's wing since day one, and been told do whatever you want. This coach has really botched the Downie situation. If Winnik gets a shot after proving nothing Downie should have the spot locked up.

I'd take Cooke over Downie any day.
- acdc1206

2010 Matt Cooke yes. Reformed play it safe Matt Cooke no.

Yup. I know there's plenty of fans that agree with you. For me, I don't see the life and energy. Make no mistake, I'd rather have him over some others currently on the roster, but the team as a whole needs better focus and discipline. I can't get past the multitude of dumb, selfish penalties. Even more, I hate the penalties he gets simply because the name on his jersey. It's a good thing the Pens have been great at PK or I think I'd have a lot more company.
- madmike71

The Penguins really don't have a good PK. Fleury is excellent at it and has had a strong PK save percentage for several years now. They allow more shots than the average PK. Especially when Sutter and Scuderi are on the unit.

What like 4 all year? One that actually might have affected the outcome of the game. Should have had a spot of Crosby's wing since day one, and been told do whatever you want. This coach has really botched the Downie situation. If Winnik gets a shot after proven nothing Downie should have the spot locked up.
- Grinder47

It's either 4 or 47 minors.....can't remember which.