Weber should have at least two Norris trophies by now, but he plays for a small market team and his name is not Chara or Lidstrom. That being the case, he doesn't deserve the award this year. I'm not saying he isn't one of the 4-5 best D-men in the league. And I bet 80% of GM's out there would make him the first D pick on their team in an open draft. But his own D partner (Roman Josi) has outplayed him this year, so I don't see how he can win the award.

I would probably vote it Doughty, Karlsson, Josi. And I know I'm a Preds homer, but Josi has been just awesome this year. He's got a great two-way game, but has been even better than Weber in his own end.

Weber should have at least two Norris trophies by now, but he plays for a small market team and his name is not Chara or Lidstrom. That being the case, he doesn't deserve the award this year. I'm not saying he isn't one of the 4-5 best D-men in the league. And I bet 80% of GM's out there would make him the first D pick on their team in an open draft. But his own D partner (Roman Josi) has outplayed him this year, so I don't see how he can win the award.

I would probably vote it Doughty, Karlsson, Josi. And I know I'm a Preds homer, but Josi has been just awesome this year. He's got a great two-way game, but has been even better than Weber in his own end.
- holycow_75

I would agree that Josi has been better than Weber.

I should have included Stralmen too honestly. What league do you watch? And how exactly do reputations get made?

If Muzzin isn't in the top ten, then why observe anything at all? Why not just decide at the start of the year who is the best based on feelings and then simulate the games on a Playstation?
- James_Tanner

By observing do you mean reading advanced statistics?

Tanner..... Your broken..... In the head.... Bad..... Plus your like 4 feet tall....

Tanner..... Your broken..... In the head.... Bad..... Plus your like 4 feet tall....
- HAs_Revenge

you're, you're

you're, you're
- BINGO!

You are..... You are.... Better??? P.s. Thanks buddy.... Don't know how I would survive with out you...

You are..... You are.... Better??? P.s. Thanks buddy.... Don't know how I would survive with out you...
- HAs_Revenge

You're right, Cloutier Tanner has gone full mongloid.

Tanner - literally everyone here thinks you're completely wrong about OEL

I guess you're the only one who understands hockey, huh?

I understand the statistical evidence to put Muzzin on the list but I think he benefits from a strong system and a great partner. Don't you think it's odd that out of your top 13 (after you add Stralman) list, you listed 3 full defensive pairings? Gio - Brodie, Doughty - Muzzin, Hedman - Stralman....do these teams each really have 2 of the top 15 defensemen in the league or are half those guys benefitting from their elite defensive partners?
- rangerdanger94

Does it matter? It's how you play that counts, not why. Obviously anyone can't just pair up with these players and become awesome, other wise, whoever was Doughty's (for example, but use any player as an example) partner every year would be considered amazing, and that doesn't happen.

I am sure if you put Muzzin with Karlsson, he'd still be one of the best, and yet, I don't see Karlsson's partner on any lists.

Tanner - literally everyone here thinks you're completely wrong about OEL

I guess you're the only one who understands hockey, huh?
- AxlRose91

How can he be wrong when it's an opinion?

I think the issue people have with Tanner is that he argues his opinions as facts and all his posts come off with a condescending, pompous, know-it-all, I'm-smarter-than-you tone. If you don't agree with him, he typically won't respect your opinion; he'll just call you wrong and ignorant for not believing in Corsi.

Weber should have at least two Norris trophies by now, but he plays for a small market team and his name is not Chara or Lidstrom. That being the case, he doesn't deserve the award this year. I'm not saying he isn't one of the 4-5 best D-men in the league. And I bet 80% of GM's out there would make him the first D pick on their team in an open draft. But his own D partner (Roman Josi) has outplayed him this year, so I don't see how he can win the award.

I would probably vote it Doughty, Karlsson, Josi. And I know I'm a Preds homer, but Josi has been just awesome this year. He's got a great two-way game, but has been even better than Weber in his own end.
- holycow_75

Roman Josi is another terrible pick people keep saying even though he doesn't deserve a nomination either.

Does it matter? It's how you play that counts, not why. Obviously anyone can't just pair up with these players and become awesome, other wise, whoever was Doughty's (for example, but use any player as an example) partner every year would be considered amazing, and that doesn't happen.

I am sure if you put Muzzin with Karlsson, he'd still be one of the best, and yet, I don't see Karlsson's partner on any lists.
- James_Tanner

Of course it matters. I'm not saying Muzzin, Stralman, or Brodie aren't good players. Hell, they're great players. It's just when you put great players with elite players, you have an elite line where both player's stats get inflated. You stick that guy on a team like LA that plays a suffocating and strict defensive structure and the stats that you value so much, Corsi, gets inflated even more.

Also, if you followed the Sens at all throughout the year, you would know that Karlsson's play improved tenfold when Methot came back.

How can he be wrong when it's an opinion?

I think the issue people have with Tanner is that he argues his opinions as facts and all his posts come off with a condescending, pompous, know-it-all, I'm-smarter-than-you tone. If you don't agree with him, he typically won't respect your opinion; he'll just call you wrong and ignorant for not believing in Corsi.
- rangerdanger94

That's exactly it. Bottom line - for someone with so little accurate insight, he's extremely condescending

How can he be wrong when it's an opinion?

I think the issue people have with Tanner is that he argues his opinions as facts and all his posts come off with a condescending, pompous, know-it-all, I'm-smarter-than-you tone. If you don't agree with him, he typically won't respect your opinion; he'll just call you wrong and ignorant for not believing in Corsi.
- rangerdanger94

Not true. Specifically I am smarter than you, but that's it.

The real breakdown comes from the fact that I use data to support my opinions and then get condescending to people who present their opinions and call me stupid but whose only "proof" is that "it seems true."

I am more than happy to admit when I am wrong, just no one ever follows up their reasons why I am so stupid with any data. I am happy to change my mind when it's been proven I am wrong, as I have stated many times.

That's exactly it. Bottom line - for someone with so little accurate insight, he's extremely condescending
- AxlRose91

At the end of the day, he makes himself out to be a joke and a hack with the way he portrays his opinions, which is why I've stopped trying too hard when debating him.

That's exactly it. Bottom line - for someone with so little accurate insight, he's extremely condescending
- AxlRose91

You troll this blog every day and never have said one thing accurate or intelligent. I don't know what you hope to gain, but haven't you noticed that most of the time you're completely ignored?

Just read an article by Bob McKenzie. He was citing a poll just taken by 20 NHL head coaches. They we're asked to vote on the Norris, and NONE of them had OEL in their top three. He actually got zero votes. Zero

Tanner - FYI. Zero votes. No first place votes, no second place votes, no third place votes

What a bunch of idiots those NHL head coaches are, huh?

At the end of the day, he makes himself out to be a joke and a hack with the way he portrays his opinions, which is why I've stopped trying too hard when debating him.
- rangerdanger94

Seriously? For a guy who I know for a fact makes his opinions up out of thin air, that is some ignorant stuff to say.

Not true. Specifically I am smarter than you, but that's it.

The real breakdown comes from the fact that I use data to support my opinions and then get condescending to people who present their opinions and call me stupid but whose only "proof" is that "it seems true."

I am more than happy to admit when I am wrong, just no one ever follows up their reasons why I am so stupid with any data. I am happy to change my mind when it's been proven I am wrong, as I have stated many times.
- James_Tanner

Well whenever anyone offers an argument against the statistics you provide, you either deem them irrelevant (like plus/minus), say that the counter-argument is just an anomaly, or call people ignorant/stupid/claim they have a confirmation bias.

Just read an article by Bob McKenzie. He was citing a poll just taken by 20 NHL head coaches. They we're asked to vote on the Norris, and NONE of them had OEL in their top three. He actually got zero votes. Zero

Tanner - FYI. Zero votes. No first place votes, no second place votes, no third place votes

What a bunch of idiots those NHL head coaches are, huh?
- AxlRose91

NHL coaches? OK buddy, great poll. It's not a logical fallacy to cede completely to experts or anything. Could it be that they all knew that if they said a guy on the last place team who was minus 19 that they would be laughed at?

Obviously if they were being honest, they would have said OEL.

Well whenever anyone offers an argument against the statistics you provide, you either deem them irrelevant (like plus/minus), say that the counter-argument is just an anomaly, or call people ignorant/stupid/claim they have a confirmation bias.
- rangerdanger94

Plus minus is completely irrelevant, what year do you think it is? Serious question.

Plus minus is completely irrelevant, what year do you think it is? Serious question.
- James_Tanner

2015.

Well whenever anyone offers an argument against the statistics you provide, you either deem them irrelevant (like plus/minus), say that the counter-argument is just an anomaly, or call people ignorant/stupid/claim they have a confirmation bias.
- rangerdanger94

That's really just with you, because you are really bad at arguing. There are tons of times when other people say things and I change my mind. Just not with you, because you never can beat me.

You're just using a confirmation bias to apply your own experience to everyone.

Plus, like, none of you guys seem to have any sense of humour at all.

2015.
- rangerdanger94

10:1 you looked that up.

Someone please explain to me how Jake Muzzin can be remotely considered a top 10 defensemen.